Deceased/Not Found CA - Sierra LaMar, 15, Morgan Hill, 16 March 2012 #7 *A. Garcia-Torres guilty*

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BeginnersLuck said:
Believe me trying to imagine a scenerio and actually living it is not possible! Try going without sleep for weeks, having a camera on national tv in your face, possibly taking meds and being in shock that your child is missing (a parents worst nightmare) this is not something you can role play.
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Good point. Thank you and I apologize if I have offended anyone or violated TOS.
 
Reannan said:
I think one of the most compelling pieces of evidence that we are aware of thus far, is the discovery of Sierra's clothing "neatly folded"... and rumors of the clothing being "soaked with urine". I can certainly see a scenario where Sierra ran away with an internet paramour, or local Don Juan that she had met, and I can even see her being smart enough to try and "stage" the disappearance to look like a kidnapping. If I was trying to stage a kidnapping, however, I would NOT neatly fold the clothes - and I don't think Sierra would either. I would toss them randomly in the field a few miles up from the cell phone. That part really bothers me. Who does this? Someone who attacked Sierra and has OCD REALLY bad??? Someone who loved Sierra and folded the clothing as a sort of "last testimony"??? The rumors about the urine are unfounded, but not ruled out as far as I can tell, so I won't even go into the possible scenarios that run through my mind with that information. I just feel horrible about this case. :please:
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WATCH this video of Sgt. Cardoza about the urine thing. The question came from a reporter and it's now grown legs and is an internet fact and much worse .....
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/video?id=8591214
 
I think the "Urine" stuff is crazy. It could have started when a reporter/le used the word "Secreted" and the person writing/listening did not know vocabulary. And now it will be with us forever.

In the Cummings Case, somebody thought a player had a C-section when she delivered her baby. All because the birth announcement was in the C section of the newspaper. You have to be very careful with the written word nowadays. There are no more great editors who oversee everything written. We have gone backwards and the press is now the "Wild West"...anything goes.

It would be very good these days to study English intensely. You will need it if you follow the cases and care to read what the media (now internet people) writes. They will take facts from a year prior and make it sound like it just happened. I don't buy anything unless I see the people saying it on video...I seldom will use a written link to prove a point.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
I think this is going to be someone who does not love Sierra at all. Who only used her body to get what they wanted.

I think the perp simply needed to get rid of the items that would tie him to Sierra or if they should stop him in a roadblock. He folded them up because that is the only way he could toss everything together out the window at one time.

One of our granddaughters has this exact purse and to get a shirt, pants, bra, panties and book or books in it the only way it would be doable is if the clothes were neatly folded instead of balled up which would take up too much room and would not fit in the purse.

IMO
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I agree Oceanblueeyes, but WHY dump the clothing there at all? Why dump the bag/purse??? If I was a predator who had just kidnapped a local teenager, I would NOT dump her purse with CLOTHING anywhere NEAR to where I took her! I would burn it in my oven, or cut it into pieces and put it in the toilet.... etc. etc.... If I were a YOUNG, person who was fixated on SL, and I finally acted on the emotions/passions that had been building for a while, I might try to "hide" the evidence close to where the act occurred. I guess I am just feeling someone YOUNG and inexperienced. I don't think this was totally random, but I don't believe it was anyone that Sierra herself would have seen as capable of this act.
 
Hi everyone,
I am new to WS. I was at the search for Sierra for 3 days last week. I would like to comment on a couple of things that I heard when I was there. Is that allowed?
 
The only thing I can think of, regarding dumping the bag...is that the perp did not notice that it was in the car until he was returning to the area, after leaving Sierra elsewhere and figured it would be safe to leave in the area of her neighborhood, if he knew perfectly well that she would not be found anywhere around there. Perhaps he lives nearby, or lives in the opposite direction from where he took her and came back the same route, saw the bag in the car and just looked for a somewhat isolated spot.
 
Elphie said:
Hi everyone,
I am new to WS. I was at the search for Sierra for 3 days last week. I would like to comment on a couple of things that I heard when I was there. Is that allowed?
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Welcome to WS's Elphie!!! In fact, welcome to all of our new posters!! You can say that you heard "blah, blah, blah", etc.... we try to keep innocent people's names out of the fray, and we try to stick with facts that are verifiable or in the public domain. Input from people on the ground is valuable! We don't want a lot of unsubstantiated rumors, but sometimes, there is fire where you smell smoke, so it can be tricky. We have great mods who will let us know for sure...
 
I just had a thought. Does anyone know what the weather was Friday and Saturday? Was there rain? I wonder what condition the books were in since they weren't in the bag. LE may have an idea when her things were left there based on that.
 
I posted in the last thread what I heard Marc Klaas say a couple of days ago on HLN regarding the handcuff box and condoms.

He said (and I'm paraphrasing now, but please refer to my original post in the last thread, which I would link if I knew how) that the find was made unilaterally by a searcher who was not part of a search party. So apparently it was one searcher on his/her own who found the handcuff box and condoms and yes, that area had been searched previously more than one time.
 
Thirteen said:
Here is my theory on Sierra's abduction:

Map


6:29 Sierra posts her snapshot to Twitter (Sierra's location is point B on the map)
6:32 Sierra posts to tumblr (Sierra's location is point B on the map)
7:11 Sierra sends text message from her phone (Sierra's location is point B on the map on her way to point C the bus stop)
7:15 Sierra arrives at bus stop (Point C)
7:15 Perp sitting in his vehicle as point D can see Sierra arrive at the bus stop using binoculars.
7:16 Perp abducts Sierra at gun point from the bus stop (point C)
7:17 Perp throws or has SL throw her cellphone from the vehicle at point E while en-route to point A.
7:18 Perp pulls up behind the building where SL's purse was found to handcuff / secure her. This might involve a trunk.
7:20 Perp discards her remaining things and evidence at the location.
7:21 Perp then leaves the area with SL, location now unknown.

The condoms and the handcuff box were a dead give away to me. This perp might have watched her on more then one occasion. He might have fantasized about the abduction thus the condoms (I'll leave the nasty stuff out).

Really the only thing missing is the box labeled binoculars. However Im sure thats something the perp already had if he was a sexual offender. IMO this is a sex offender.
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The picture of Sierra taken that morning was not sent to twitter. Her last tweet was an RT and her recent images are here https://twitter.com/#!/cccairuh/media/slideshow?url=pic.twitter.com/xGYQQBdU It was not unusual for her to tweet pictures of herself.

I think it was reported in the media it was tweeted but it must have been sent some other way to someone, text message, facebook, it didn't go to twitter.
 
I would like to discuss the search dogs brought in initially. The earliest mention of them was from a Saturday search. Sierra went missing Friday morning.

They used search dogs and a helicopter as well as investigators on foot on Saturday but said they did not find any trace of the teen.
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Doesn't mention that the scent ends at the driveway thats odd. All they say is no trace of her was found.

Link

JDB said:
How does Sierra scent end at the driveway than? Her scent does not go to the bus stop.
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How come they didn't follow the scent from her walking to the bus stop on Thursday? Search dogs were brought in the next day. Had they been brought in that day I think it would have improved chances of a scent.

You can look up information on search dogs, one agency claims to have found a scent a week old. So if SL's scent actually ended at the driveway why didn't they continue to the bus stop from the scent from Thursday?

Link

I understand exactly how the dogs work. Thats why I'm bringing this up. I don't think LE would or is basing anything off of the search dogs because no conclusion was reached. IMO the area has to be terrible for scent dogs to get a scent or she was getting into a vehicle everyday to go to school.

In my other opinion her close friends probably would have known that. Heck we can rule that completely out by talking to the school bus driver right? I don't believe the dogs found anything that can or should be used as evidence.
 
Welcome to Websleuths, Elphie!

Does anyone know how often Sierra took a photo of herself before school?

Sierra's photo taken minutes before she disappeared spookily reminds me of Kyron's photo (at the science fair) which was taken minutes before he disappeared.
 
Whisperer said:
I think the "Urine" stuff is crazy. It could have started when a reporter/le used the word "Secreted" and the person writing/listening did not know vocabulary. And now it will be with us forever.

In the Cummings Case, somebody thought a player had a C-section when she delivered her baby. All because the birth announcement was in the C section of the newspaper. You have to be very careful with the written word nowadays. There are no more great editors who oversee everything written. We have gone backwards and the press is now the "Wild West"...anything goes.

It would be very good these days to study English intensely. You will need it if you follow the cases and care to read what the media (now internet people) writes. They will take facts from a year prior and make it sound like it just happened. I don't buy anything unless I see the people saying it on video...I seldom will use a written link to prove a point.
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That is EXACTLY what happened!! Someone didn't know the meaning of the word "secrete" used in the context of the purse being not openly lying in the road, etc. For whatever reason, the rumor took off like wildfire!! URINE on the clothes!!! I was useless to try and correct the misinformation. :banghead:
 
Thirteen said:
I would like to discuss the search dogs brought in initially. The earliest mention of them was from a Saturday search. Sierra went missing Friday morning.



Doesn't mention that the scent ends at the driveway thats odd. All they say is no trace of her was found.

Link



How come they didn't follow the scent from her walking to the bus stop on Thursday? Search dogs were brought in the next day. Had they been brought in that day I think it would have improved chances of a scent.

You can look up information on search dogs, one agency claims to have found a scent a week old. So if SL's scent actually ended at the driveway why didn't they continue to the bus stop from the scent from Thursday?

Link

I understand exactly how the dogs work. Thats why I'm bringing this up. I don't think LE would or is basing anything off of the search dogs because no conclusion was reached. IMO the area has to be terrible for scent dogs to get a scent or she was getting into a vehicle everyday to go to school.

In my other opinion her close friends probably would have known that. Heck we can rule that completely out by talking to the school bus driver right? I don't believe the dogs found anything that can or should be used as evidence.
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The dogs should not have followed the scent from Thursday or any other day because that was not the freshest scent. So, when the freshest scent stopped at the end of the driveway, so did the dogs, just as they should have. They would be bad if they lost that trail and then decided to pick up an older one. There was a conclusion reached, and that was that the trail stopped at the end of the driveway which then can be translated into she either was abducted by aliens and beamed up into a spaceship or she got into a vehicle. Most handlers go with option B. A 24 hour old trail is no big deal, especially given the conditions, actually the timing, the conditions, everything was really quite ideal. The court she lives on has lots of areas for scent to trap, again great. The area all the way out to ST actually has plenty of area for the scent to pool on the shoulders as well.
 
Amster said:
That is EXACTLY what happened!! Someone didn't know the meaning of the word "secrete" used in the context of the purse being not openly lying in the road, etc. For whatever reason, the rumor took off like wildfire!! URINE on the clothes!!! I was useless to try and correct the misinformation. :banghead:
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Yeah, you and me both were useless on that one, lol.
 
Thirteen said:
I understand how scent dogs work from personal research I am not an expert. You would need to examine elevation and wind speed. If her scent pooled at a low elevation such as her driveway then thats where the dogs would stay. I do not think a lot of her scent would pool along the road on the way to the bus stop.

A lot of factors when it comes to the dogs. They are a good tool however you cannot and should not base everything on the dog. The dog is only one tool and in many abduction cases I've seen them find very little.
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Oriah or sarx could answer this better than I can but here's my take on it.

When handling a trailing dog (a dog trained to follow the scent of a single individual, given to them via some personal item handled by that individual), the handler starts at the last known location of the target and follows the dog from there.

If the dog loses the scent or gets stuck on a single spot, the handler doesn't just stop there and call it done. It's not unusual for there to be a blank spot along a scent trail. The handler and dog cast around from the last spot that there was scent to find where the scent trail starts again.

When the target's intended route is known (say, walking to a bus stop), the handler also follows that route with the dog.

Windy conditions can blow the scent around. However, the scent doesn't just disappear off the face of the earth, it gets blown downwind of the person's actual path for a relatively short distance until it falls to the ground or gets stuck against anything that sticks up (like tall grass, buildings, curbs, trees, etc).

Once the first dog is done working, then (ideally) a second dog and handler are brought in. The second handler is given the same information as the first handler (target's last known position, etc) but not given any of the first handler's findings. The second handler works the scene as though the first handler had never been there.

Then the two handlers get together and compare notes. If their findings match, there's a high probability that they've found what there is to find.

Now, what if Sierra hadn't walked down the road that day but cut in between houses and went off behind them? They've had dogs all over that neighbourhood, checking and re-checking.

While it is possible that all the dogs are wrong, that's a fairly low probability. Both sarx and Oriah have said that the department has a good reputation and their dog work is high quality.
 
Thirteen said:
Here is my theory on Sierra's abduction:

Map


6:29 Sierra posts her snapshot to Twitter (Sierra's location is point B on the map)
6:32 Sierra posts to tumblr (Sierra's location is point B on the map)
7:11 Sierra sends text message from her phone (Sierra's location is point B on the map on her way to point C the bus stop)
7:15 Sierra arrives at bus stop (Point C)
7:15 Perp sitting in his vehicle as point D can see Sierra arrive at the bus stop using binoculars.
7:16 Perp abducts Sierra at gun point from the bus stop (point C)
7:17 Perp throws or has SL throw her cellphone from the vehicle at point E while en-route to point A.
7:18 Perp pulls up behind the building where SL's purse was found to handcuff / secure her. This might involve a trunk.
7:20 Perp discards her remaining things and evidence at the location.
7:21 Perp then leaves the area with SL, location now unknown.

The condoms and the handcuff box were a dead give away to me. This perp might have watched her on more then one occasion. He might have fantasized about the abduction thus the condoms (I'll leave the nasty stuff out).

Really the only thing missing is the box labeled binoculars. However Im sure thats something the perp already had if he was a sexual offender. IMO this is a sex offender.
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This is a good timeline,but the dog sniffed out her fresh scent at the end of the driveway and that's where it stopped.I am a avid believer in these dogs and IMO they are rarely wrong.They are highly trained dogs.
 
Pensfan said:
Welcome to Websleuths, Elphie!

Does anyone know how often Sierra took a photo of herself before school?

Sierra's photo taken minutes before she disappeared spookily reminds me of Kyron's photo (at the science fair) which was taken minutes before he disappeared.
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Initially, it reminded me of that too... IDK how often she took photos of herself like that before school. IIRC, the genesis of the photo story was that Sierra too the photo of herself using her phone.Sent it to a boy ( never identified ) Then later, after she went missing,the boy sent it to Marlene. Actually, I could swear that I read that Marlene said this... But,who knows ? MOO
 
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