CA - Transgender Teen, Who Revealed Honest Tales of Bullying, Takes Own Life

[tangelo]

my post & the reply that I wanted to respond to are gone.

 

[tangelo]

I don't really care what one person's bias or opinion is, if I walk up to someone as I am right now - clearly female, show them my vagina, and tell them "please refer to me as a man", they should do exactly that.

who's they? Most theys would then call the cops on you & you'd be arrested & booked according to what they saw.

Respect peoples' identities and how they identify themselves. Just because YOU see a boy doesn't mean that person IS a boy, especially if they tell you they are a girl. Just because it confuses YOU and makes YOU uncomfortable doesn't mean you get to define others. (this is a general "you", not directed at any one individual here)

yeah, uh huh... oh and respect them enough not to make judgements about them that encourage suicides

What if you woke up tomorrow with your brain that identifies you as one gender, but your body was that of the opposite gender? Now imagine living your entire life like that. And then being bullied and questioned for trying to live your life as the gender your brain tells you you are.

We need to get rid of gender bias and gender stereotyping.

How would anyone know? Unless you chose to broadcast it, as you were encouraged to do by others, with their own agendas & not necessarily your best interests in mind.

Read this & other threads for survivors (potentially of any gender id or whatever) of BULLYING.

 

[Tawny]

yeah, uh huh... oh and respect them enough not to make judgements about them that encourage suicides



How would anyone know? Unless you chose to broadcast it, as you were encouraged to do by others, with their own agendas & not necessarily your best interests in mind.

Read this & other threads for survivors (potentially of any gender id or whatever) of BULLYING.

RSBM

Yeah, don't go around judging people. It's none of anyone else's business, even IF they broadcast it.

Did you intend to include a link with your last sentence or do you mean this thread we're commenting in. There are many different types of bullying, and making fun of someone's clothing IS bullying.

 

[Tulessa]

I've tried to understand tangelo's (love that fruit btw) Approach to this subject, but I'm just not getting it. Last night, I watched some more of her videos, and she appeared to be highly intelligent to me. Such a sad outcome.

 

[DexterMorgan]

The media and others did have their own agenda regarding this child's situation. He was way too young to be a public advocate for something he obviously couldn't handle on a public level due to people's negativity. So 6 jokesters now turned into 60,000 in one week.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Let me see if I'm getting this right. From an oppositional standpoint, I'm seeing posts on this thread that suggest it's not so much the gender presentment that is the issue, but the implied demand that it be accepted as "normal" or mainstream? That the social media presence documenting what the victim characterized as bullying is offensive because they "put themselves out there, and what do you expect!?"

Is that about right?

Well, let's look at it this way. There are women who dress as women, and men who dress as men, who draw similar criticism for their overtly sexual presentment, or outlandish apparel or demeanor.

So...is the issue more about gender presentment, or behavior in general?

BTW, I had no idea what a "tangelo" is, and now I do! : )

 

[tangelo]

I've tried to understand tangelo's (love that fruit btw) Approach to this subject, but I'm just not getting it. Last night, I watched some more of her videos, and she appeared to be highly intelligent to me. Such a sad outcome.

my concern is saving lives. others care more about sparing hurt feelings.

 

[rosesfromangels]

my concern is saving lives. others care more about sparing hurt feelings.

Tangelo - please elaborate. So you think if this young person hadn't "forced the issue" with the YouTube posts, etc. they would still be alive? That is an interesting speculation, if I'm understanding correctly.

 

[Tulessa]

Leaves thread more confused than ever...........

 

[tangelo]

Tangelo - please elaborate. So you think if this young person hadn't "forced the issue" with the YouTube posts, etc. they would still be alive? That is an interesting speculation, if I'm understanding correctly.

in a way, but that's just a part of it as far as it shows the kid was one who sought attention. The lgbtq group that presumed to counsel him, certainly took advantage of him, arguably sacrificed him, for their cause (and publicity). or theyre just incompetent. but they were allowed to, as no one else cared to, was capable to, or whatever. and the media runs with this stuff. trans**** gets headlines & hits.
he was 16. like 16 year olds everywhere in regards to everything, he bought into the hype & did what he did to live up to that hype. by taking his life.

no one told him that if you seek attention, you dont get to decide what attention you get. seems to me he was told something different. by adults with other priorities.

the praise he's being lauded with here & everywhere after his death, is why he killed himself. i'd prefer to prevent that with the next next kid.

 

[Tawny]

It's the PRAISE that made him kill himself?

 

[rosesfromangels]

in a way, but that's just a part of it as far as it shows the kid was one who sought attention. The lgbtq group that presumed to counsel him, certainly took advantage of him, arguably sacrificed him, for their cause (and publicity). or theyre just incompetent. but they were allowed to, as no one else cared to, was capable to, or whatever. and the media runs with this stuff. trans**** gets headlines & hits.
he was 16. like 16 year olds everywhere in regards to everything, he bought into the hype & did what he did to live up to that hype. by taking his life.

no one told him that if you seek attention, you dont get to decide what attention you get. seems to me he was told something different. by adults with other priorities.

the praise he's being lauded with here & everywhere after his death, is why he killed himself. i'd prefer to prevent that with the next next kid.

O.K., now I get it. I think you and Dexter are saying about the same thing, if I am understanding correctly. I had to look up Fallbrook, CA as I had never heard of it. (Sorry Fallbrook). It's very close to Camp Pendleton, and there are some notable celebrities that have secondary homes there.

Anyway, I agree that *adults* using any minor to promote a cause in a manner that could ultimately cause them psychological or physical harm is patently wrong. Adults who can understand the consequences of their platform and stance still can feel overwhelmed, let alone a 16 year old kid. So you and I agree on this point Tangelo. If adults willfully interfered with the health (mental or otherwise) of this young person against the will of the parents, then they have some trouble on their hands. Further, if the school was notified and did nothing to stop harassment, threats, or attacks of any type....then they have exposure as well, in my amateur opinion.

 

[rosesfromangels]

So let me pose a question to everyone on this thread. If you had of been this child's parent, how would you have handled this? What would you have done in the situation of a child who was presenting themselves in clothing other than their bio gender....and being ridiculed? What would you do?

 

[Tulessa]

So let me pose a question to everyone on this thread. If you had of been this child's parent, how would you have handled this? What would you have done in the situation of a child who was presenting themselves in clothing other than their bio gender....and being ridiculed? What would you do?

Yes, I'm beginning to see where tangelo is coming from. Thanks tangelo for the explanation. RFA, as to your question? I haven't a clue. I'm one of those that have to be faced with a situation to be able to give a fruitful answer.

 

[rosesfromangels]

It's the PRAISE that made him kill himself?

Tawny, I think what this might mean is that the praise for "taking up the cause" or being a martyr for the cause. Backing away from the cause would be dishonorable. This is far too heavy for most adults, let alone a 16 year old. If this is what Tangelo means, then I agree.
Being authentic to ones choice of gender presentment is important, but the way it is handled for the benefit of the child in question requires a very thoughtful and measured approach, IMO.

 

[Tawny]

So let me pose a question to everyone on this thread. If you had of been this child's parent, how would you have handled this? What would you have done in the situation of a child who was presenting themselves in clothing other than their bio gender....and being ridiculed? What would you do?

I would get her counseling to deal with the stress and frustration of bullying, and support her through everything so that when all else fails she knows that her parents will always be there for her no matter what. I would address the bullying with the school/parents and try to find a way to put a stop to it.

But none of that matters so long as people believe trans persons should just stay in the closet and out of our faces, you know? We need ACCEPTANCE or at the very very least tolerance, instead of being made to believe it's "wrong" for a boy to wear "girl's clothes" (since when do clothing have genitalia?). Wear what you want, what you feel good in, regardless of gender or orientation. Parents need to be teaching kids that what matters is the person inside, not whether they're wearing the "wrong" clothing. My husband is toying with the idea of wearing a kilt and why shouldn't he? He's as masculine as a man can get but hates how restricting pants are. Clothing shouldn't define us at ALL.

JMO

 

[tangelo]

O.K., now I get it. I think you and Dexter are saying about the same thing, if I am understanding correctly. I had to look up Fallbrook, CA as I had never heard of it. (Sorry Fallbrook). It's very close to Camp Pendleton, and there are some notable celebrities that have secondary homes there.

Anyway, I agree that *adults* using any minor to promote a cause in a manner that could ultimately cause them psychological or physical harm is patently wrong. Adults who can understand the consequences of their platform and stance still can feel overwhelmed, let alone a 16 year old kid. So you and I agree on this point Tangelo. If adults willfully interfered with the health (mental or otherwise) of this young person against the will of the parents, then they have some trouble on their hands. Further, if the school was notified and did nothing to stop harassment, threats, or attacks of any type....then they have exposure as well, in my amateur opinion.

no one has documented any harassment threats or attacks. just bullying. and criticism or derision of clothes, that counts as bullying they say.
also none of the links provided thus far provide any parental comment.
he was encouraged to embrace a victim status (based on his thoughts, feelings--no actual diagnosis) & was well informed by those adults the growing trend of transgender teens committing suicide. and then praised by bravery and beauty and victimization or whatever
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...fornia-kills-self-bullying.html#ixzz3XUnkrXdp

 

[rosesfromangels]

I think Jesus wore a "dress"/robe didn't He?
And, I know a few Scotsmen who wear "skirts" that you wouldn't dare insult. ; )

 

[rosesfromangels]

no one has documented any harassment threats or attacks. just bullying. and criticism or derision of clothes, that counts as bullying they say.
also none of the links provided thus far provide any parental comment.
he was encouraged to embrace a victim status (based on his thoughts, feelings--no actual diagnosis) & was well informed by those adults the growing trend of transgender teens committing suicide. and then praised by bravery and beauty and victimization or whateverhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...fornia-kills-self-bullying.html#ixzz3XUnkrXdp

If this is the case, then he was indeed (no doubt unintentionally) martyred for the cause. As I stated upthread, while no doubt well intentioned, the end result demonstrates why putting this type of pressure on a child is wrong. Scientists say our brains aren't fully formed until we are 25, and heaven only knows when we truly reach the age of emotional maturity. This was just far far too heavy a crusade for a sixteen year old, and could have been handled in a more measured and thoughtful manner.

 

[tangelo]

If this is the case, then he was indeed (no doubt unintentionally) martyred for the cause. As I stated upthread, while no doubt well intentioned, the end result demonstrates why putting this type of pressure on a child is wrong. Scientists say our brains aren't fully formed until we are 25, and heaven only knows when we truly reach the age of emotional maturity. This was just far far too heavy a crusade for a sixteen year old, and could have been handled in a more measured and thoughtful manner.

I doubt the unintentionally. and the well intentioned.