CA CA - William Cierzan, 58, Santa Clarita Valley, 26 Jan 2017 #2

[kbissing]

Unfortunately and sadly yes. I believe those searching for Will have come to that conclusion as well. Its so important to find him ASAP so that justice can be served.

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If there was blood found at the home why don't they search the white SUV (they absolutely know whose it is) for blood or other forensics as well?


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[debbiegarcia36]

If there was blood found at the home why don't they search the white SUV (they absolutely know whose it is) for blood or other forensics as well?


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LE most likely has examined the family members vehicle but they most likely will not reveal their findings.

Also LE has not confirmed ownership of the SUV found backing into the driveway and or whether it has been located.

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[LisaWL7TR]

LE has not changed this from a missing person case.
Sadly those that probably know more are searching for a body.

 

[xmsmadex]

It's always nice to have hope, because we want so badly for someone who seems so kindly and generous and trusting to be okay. And Razz, what an awesome person you are to keep that hopeful spirit alive, as are so many of our amazing WS members.

Unfortunately, I'm a bit jaded at this point, and I keep thinking it would be more productive to vet theories that are tied to the facts as I know them. I don't know how to be other than logical and realistic and allow myself to accept what likely occurred between 4:00 pm and 5:00 pm that day, so that I can perhaps begin to examine the line of thinking that probably followed directly from 5:12 pm and onwards. I have accepted that blood was found and LE was trying to explain "how it got where it was". I have accepted that he had unexplainable company who was in a bit of a hurry from 5:06 - 5:12. I have accepted that a man who was a homebody and so kindly he wouldn't ever cause this much drama and trauma and pain to his wife or family.... well, it's not hard for me to conclude (with great sadness mind you) that it seems quite unlikely that WC is still alive. So now that I've allowed myself to "go there", I can theorize that WC was in a white SUV at 5:12, and now I can start really digging into where that SUV went next. Based on time of day, limited alibi time, types of people who might assist the SUV driver, etc.... where could WC be now? That's what I wish I could get help to theorizing on, based on that foundation.

Can anyone else go there with me?

I too, sadly, feel the same. I dont want to be accusatory, my opinions are simply based on the information I have found and are just that, my opinion.

I definitely believe the relative named is involved. I believe WC's wife believes that too. I believe this relative has had a rough life and has been involved in some questionable things (juggalo family) for a good part of his life. I believe WC was supportive and did his best to encourage this relative to be better. I believe that day the relative went to WC's with the intention to steal precsription drugs (based on prior arrest 2014) and WC caught the relative or the relative went to confront WC for not loaning money prior or some other unknown reason and things got out of hand. The suv arrives with 2 friends of relative and they move WC to an unknown location. Or relative leaves and comes back with friend to move WC. We've been shown only that one bit of footage from neighbor but who knows if LE has more footage supporting the relative arriving at 1 or not.

Im trying to be as vague as possible, I hope I havent gone too far but I am very curious if anyone else came to this or a similar conclusion?

 

[debbiegarcia36]

I too, sadly, feel the same. I dont want to be accusatory, my opinions are simply based on the information I have found and are just that, my opinion.

I definitely believe the relative named is involved. I believe WC's wife believes that too. I believe this relative has had a rough life and has been involved in some questionable things (juggalo family) for a good part of his life. I believe WC was supportive and did his best to encourage this relative to be better. I believe that day the relative went to WC's with the intention to steal precsription drugs (based on prior arrest 2014) and WC caught the relative or the relative went to confront WC for not loaning money prior or some other unknown reason and things got out of hand. The suv arrives with 2 friends of relative and they move WC to an unknown location. Or relative leaves and comes back with friend to move WC. We've been shown only that one bit of footage from neighbor but who knows if LE has more footage supporting the relative arriving at 1 or not.

Im trying to be as vague as possible, I hope I havent gone too far but I am very curious if anyone else came to this or a similar conclusion?

I have to say that I agree with you. Of course motive is speculation, but something along those lines most likely happened IMO.

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[GigTu]

In the spirit of finding WC, can we try an exercise that will hopefully spark new ideas?

Pull up 26810 Quatro Milpas on Google Earth. Trace left from the driveway to Festividad.

Is anyone familiar with this area? More specifically, can those who frequent this area and are familiar with it tell us every tidbit - small and large - you've observed about peak traffic in that area.

We want to know what percentages you would place on going left or right at each intersection. For example, what percentage do you give the SUV going left versus the percentage going right when you get to Bouquet Canyon, and why.

And so on, and so on. Take us as far as you can with your experience in this area and let's see where it leads.

It's absolutely critical to keep in mind that you are driving on a Thursday night at about 5:12-5:20 pm. It is still light out, but closing in on dusk within the hour.

 

[travelbug]

It's always nice to have hope, because we want so badly for someone who seems so kindly and generous and trusting to be okay. And Razz, what an awesome person you are to keep that hopeful spirit alive, as are so many of our amazing WS members.

Unfortunately, I'm a bit jaded at this point, and I keep thinking it would be more productive to vet theories that are tied to the facts as I know them. I don't know how to be other than logical and realistic and allow myself to accept what likely occurred between 4:00 pm and 5:00 pm that day, so that I can perhaps begin to examine the line of thinking that probably followed directly from 5:12 pm and onwards. I have accepted that blood was found and LE was trying to explain "how it got where it was". I have accepted that he had unexplainable company who was in a bit of a hurry from 5:06 - 5:12. I have accepted that a man who was a homebody and so kindly he wouldn't ever cause this much drama and trauma and pain to his wife or family.... well, it's not hard for me to conclude (with great sadness mind you) that it seems quite unlikely that WC is still alive. So now that I've allowed myself to "go there", I can theorize that WC was in a white SUV at 5:12, and now I can start really digging into where that SUV went next. Based on time of day, limited alibi time, types of people who might assist the SUV driver, etc.... where could WC be now? That's what I wish I could get help to theorizing on, based on that foundation.

Can anyone else go there with me?

IMO there is a strong possibility that, since WC was small in stature, his body was placed in a dumpster. I wonder if his work ID was missing because his place of employment would be an ideal choice. There would be mountains of trash being removed from that location. They may even have an industrial compactor. moo jmho

 

[xmsmadex]

IMO there is a strong possibility that, since WC was small in stature, his body was placed in a dumpster. I wonder if his work ID was missing because his place of employment would be an ideal choice. There would be mountains of trash being removed from that location. They may even have an industrial compactor. moo jmho

They would gave needed access to inside the park, there's no way to really get his body inside the park without being noticed.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

In the spirit of finding WC, can we try an exercise that will hopefully spark new ideas?

Pull up 26810 Quatro Milpas on Google Earth. Trace left from the driveway to Festividad.

Is anyone familiar with this area? More specifically, can those who frequent this area and are familiar with it tell us every tidbit - small and large - you've observed about peak traffic in that area.

We want to know what percentages you would place on going left or right at each intersection. For example, what percentage do you give the SUV going left versus the percentage going right when you get to Bouquet Canyon, and why.

And so on, and so on. Take us as far as you can with your experience in this area and let's see where it leads.

It's absolutely critical to keep in mind that you are driving on a Thursday night at about 5:12-5:20 pm. It is still light out, but closing in on dusk within the hour.

I live a couple of blocks away. Ill drive by tbis weekend.

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[debbiegarcia36]

In the spirit of finding WC, can we try an exercise that will hopefully spark new ideas?

Pull up 26810 Quatro Milpas on Google Earth. Trace left from the driveway to Festividad.

Is anyone familiar with this area? More specifically, can those who frequent this area and are familiar with it tell us every tidbit - small and large - you've observed about peak traffic in that area.

We want to know what percentages you would place on going left or right at each intersection. For example, what percentage do you give the SUV going left versus the percentage going right when you get to Bouquet Canyon, and why.

And so on, and so on. Take us as far as you can with your experience in this area and let's see where it leads.

It's absolutely critical to keep in mind that you are driving on a Thursday night at about 5:12-5:20 pm. It is still light out, but closing in on dusk within the hour.

Keep in mind that in gets dark now close to 7 because of daylight savings.

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[debbiegarcia36]

In the spirit of finding WC, can we try an exercise that will hopefully spark new ideas?

Pull up 26810 Quatro Milpas on Google Earth. Trace left from the driveway to Festividad.

Is anyone familiar with this area? More specifically, can those who frequent this area and are familiar with it tell us every tidbit - small and large - you've observed about peak traffic in that area.

We want to know what percentages you would place on going left or right at each intersection. For example, what percentage do you give the SUV going left versus the percentage going right when you get to Bouquet Canyon, and why.

And so on, and so on. Take us as far as you can with your experience in this area and let's see where it leads.

It's absolutely critical to keep in mind that you are driving on a Thursday night at about 5:12-5:20 pm. It is still light out, but closing in on dusk within the hour.

Its Cuatro Milpas.

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[xmsmadex]

In the spirit of finding WC, can we try an exercise that will hopefully spark new ideas?

Pull up 26810 Quatro Milpas on Google Earth. Trace left from the driveway to Festividad.

Is anyone familiar with this area? More specifically, can those who frequent this area and are familiar with it tell us every tidbit - small and large - you've observed about peak traffic in that area.

We want to know what percentages you would place on going left or right at each intersection. For example, what percentage do you give the SUV going left versus the percentage going right when you get to Bouquet Canyon, and why.

And so on, and so on. Take us as far as you can with your experience in this area and let's see where it leads.

It's absolutely critical to keep in mind that you are driving on a Thursday night at about 5:12-5:20 pm. It is still light out, but closing in on dusk within the hour.

This is a great question I think that time, traffic and daylight have very little to do with the situation, however. Imagine you have the body of someone close to you in your car, at this point your freaking out trying to figure what your going to do with him. I think their minds were searching for place rather than worrying about anything else at that moment. Ive lived in this area for about 6 years but I did not grow up here and I am assuming that someone who did knows a few spots that accessible but only to those who know the area.

With that being said I definitely think they would have gone left onto Bouquet Canyon Rd. This takes you out to some very remote areas with little to no traffic. Its a desert area so there is not much cover so they had to have gone pretty far out, perhaps getting over onto Sierra Hwy which is very remote with no traffic and a bit more coverage.

Had they turned right there is a little turn off off of Bouquet Canyon Rd called Springbrook Ave that has a little industrial area, large trash bins and mountainy area etc. A small road leads pretty far back onto that mountain. This is next to a highly public area so I am not sure they could have done this during the day but in the cover of night it may have made a good dumping spot. They could have also gotten onto the 5N fwy where there is a very large lake (Pyramid Lake) and nothing but mountains.

Santa Clarita is in a valley so we are literally surrounded on all sides by mountains. No matter which direction they chose to go they could have found a remote area where very few people frequent. Its unfortunate but lets hope he is found and soon.

 

[travelbug]

They would gave needed access to inside the park, there's no way to really get his body inside the park without being noticed.

That's why I asked whether his employee ID was in his wallet. Also, at one point the nephew also worked at the park. They would use the employee entrance and not seem out of place. For that matter WC could have been removed from the house in a large yard waste bag and placed in the nearest commercial waste bin. It may not be likely, but it would certainly be quick and easy. jmho

 

[GigTu]

Nowadays, badging in and out also keeps track or who/when/which access point. If someone badged in with William's badge, they'd have caught in on camera as well. There's been no buzz about that so I doubt that occurred.

 

[GigTu]

There is a walking trail down by the river. Is it accessible by vehicle at any point? On the maps I see there's are a lot of gates, but I also see those gates open, which means they are probably open a lot, during daylight anyways.

 

[GigTu]

To the locals, has there been any type of campaign from LE or anyone else to find out if the SUV was spotted that afternoon, or up to the next time the SUV was seen by anyone other than the driver's parents or friends?

Does anyone know when the driver or SUV itself was next seen, where, and by whom? The SUV has a couple of detectable distinguishable attributes that would make it somewhat easy to remember it.

Does anyone know if the SUV has been impounded and searched, or if it's still being driven around?

 

[GigTu]

This is a great question I think that time, traffic and daylight have very little to do with the situation, however. Imagine you have the body of someone close to you in your car, at this point your freaking out trying to figure what your going to do with him. I think their minds were searching for place rather than worrying about anything else at that moment. Ive lived in this area for about 6 years but I did not grow up here and I am assuming that someone who did knows a few spots that accessible but only to those who know the area.

While I personally agree that the dump location would be more driven by familiarity over traffic access, I do also agree that the time of day would push the driver to take a route that didn't have them locked in or moving slowly. I think time of day is entirely relavent to guesstimating which directions were taken to get to that spot the driver had chosen to go to, or that a new location was chosen if the path felt risky.

My goal is to analyze the path of least resistance upon leaving Cuatro Milpas at 5:12 pm on Thursdays. While also keeping in mind that it started being dusk within the first 45 minutes on January 26.

 

[GigTu]

Its Cuatro Milpas.

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My mobile device's spellcheck must have autocorrected it and I didn't notice, because I always copy/paste street names.
:gaah:

Good catch!

 

[xmsmadex]

While I personally agree that the dump location would be more driven by familiarity over traffic access, I do also agree that the time of day would push the driver to take a route that didn't have them locked in or moving slowly. I think time of day is entirely relavent to guesstimating which directions were taken to get to that spot the driver had chosen to go to, or that a new location was chosen if the path felt risky.

My goal is to analyze the path of least resistance upon leaving Cuatro Milpas at 5:12 pm on Thursdays. While also keeping in mind that it started being dusk within the first 45 minutes on January 26.

I understand, basically no matter the direction they chose they wouldn't have encountered much traffic. most of santa clarita is made up of large lanes and 50 mile an hour speed limits and people dont hold back. There are very few roads they would have needed to avoid none of which would have kept them from a remote area. I do believe they would have chosen a place to dump familiar to them and there are places all around us all of which have fast routes from WC's house. Bouquet Canyon is one of the largest roads in Santa Clarita and it can take you to anywhere in this city. I would imagine they avoided Valencia and Mcbean, there would definitely be more crowded no matter the time of day. Also once you pass Newhall Ranch Rd. traveling on Bouquet Canyon the street turns into Railroad Ave which can definitely get a bit of traffic I dont believe they would have travelled beyond that.

 

[liz b.]

It's always nice to have hope, because we want so badly for someone who seems so kindly and generous and trusting to be okay. And Razz, what an awesome person you are to keep that hopeful spirit alive, as are so many of our amazing WS members.

Unfortunately, I'm a bit jaded at this point, and I keep thinking it would be more productive to vet theories that are tied to the facts as I know them. I don't know how to be other than logical and realistic and allow myself to accept what likely occurred between 4:00 pm and 5:00 pm that day, so that I can perhaps begin to examine the line of thinking that probably followed directly from 5:12 pm and onwards. I have accepted that blood was found and LE was trying to explain "how it got where it was". I have accepted that he had unexplainable company who was in a bit of a hurry from 5:06 - 5:12. I have accepted that a man who was a homebody and so kindly he wouldn't ever cause this much drama and trauma and pain to his wife or family.... well, it's not hard for me to conclude (with great sadness mind you) that it seems quite unlikely that WC is still alive. So now that I've allowed myself to "go there", I can theorize that WC was in a white SUV at 5:12, and now I can start really digging into where that SUV went next. Based on time of day, limited alibi time, types of people who might assist the SUV driver, etc.... where could WC be now? That's what I wish I could get help to theorizing on, based on that foundation.

Can anyone else go there with me?

Going back to the start of this case here, I think many of us went to the same place you did...if LE had taken cadaver dogs through the house, and if they had taken those dogs to the nephew's truck...and if the dogs had hit in the truck or house, that would be a HUGE step towards probable cause. And one has to ask : WHY did LE not do this ? jmo I think there is way more to this case than meets the eye, but jmo Also, something seems off about the phone conversations, but again, jmo