Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #4

[Stirner]

So I guess they found him at the very least with a fake ID with Hartley's name on it.

Considering DG successfully sued the govt. for unemployment insurance benefits under the false identity, I wouldn't be surprised if the current charge against him is a continuation of benefits seeking behavior under the false identity, namely welfare cheques...

 

[Stirner]

But he might feel left behind if he fell asleep and his almost 2 year old little brother went home with mom. Don't children notice things like that?

Well I'm not sure this is an important avenue of speculation, but I don't think he would have felt abandoned unless he actually was abandoned.

 

[Stirner]

Even if DG was involved in Matthew Harley's death, it's still possible the teen boy's mother didn't and still doesn't know the driver who caused the accident.

The idea that DG could have been involved in MH's death is preposterous. If you're going to steal an identity, why would you steal the identity of someone you had clear legal links to? This entire line of thinking is based on a misunderstanding of why someone would assume the identity of a dead child, because most people don't read books called How To Disappear And Never Be Found, which tell you to do just that; assume the identity of a child who died and would now be approximately your age if he were still alive. You do this by going to the library and scouring the microfiche of old newspapers' obituary columns, and using the information you obtain there, you order the child's birth certificate from vital statistics. I almost did this myself when I was 17 only because I wanted an ID that said I was over 21 so I could get into nightclubs, but thankfully my conscience got the better of me while I was at the library looking at old obituaries...

So really, forget about DG having any connection whatsoever to MH, all he did was steal the identity in a way that law enforcement is well aware of...

 

[wendiesan]

Another MSM article discussing blood found at the AL and KL home.
I feel so badly for JO finding such a disastrous scene.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ch-of-garland-property-ends-for-day-1.2698568

Investigators estimate between 200 and 300 people went through the home over the course of the weekend but they are trying to get an idea of what was purchased and what remains in the home.
They say there was*no sign of forced entry into the home*but that blood found inside confirms that a violent incident did take place there.
Police could not say who the blood belonged to, only that whoever it was from*would have been "in medical distress."
The forensics unit also examined "marks" along the outside of the house but police could not confirm whether those marks are blood.

 

[Lava]

Another MSM article discussing blood found at the AL and KL home.
I feel so badly for JO finding such a disastrous scene.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ch-of-garland-property-ends-for-day-1.2698568

I can't even imagine

 

[LoriMcA]

Do we know that he was circling the block? Perhaps he was seen more than once on the CCTV cameras but over what time span. Just wonder if he made more than one trip, perhaps, for obvious reasons - as opposed to circling the block. Big Question mark ?

So when LE speaks about the truck, they are referencing not times not from the surveillance video, but time of day milestones established by the mother leaving and coming back. Why that and not the times on the video?

I'd posted this a couple days ago in thread #3 Post 275 about the cctv & the timing of truck being seen:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...algary-30-June-2014-3&p=10709212#post10709212



http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ca...950/story.html


"Employing a high-end security system that includes closed-circuit television, one particularly tall home recorded video of the truck circling the neighbourhood a few times during those crucial hours between JO’ dropping off her son Nathan with his grandparents after their weekend estate sale, and her return the next morning."

 

[Carol]

The released picture appears to be taken during daylight. Perhaps it was circling before 10pm... and after.

Well this time of year the days are long, sun is up by 5 am so the photo could be from the 5am-10am time period. I suppose it could be that they saw a dark shape of that truck several times during the dark hours, but used an earlier lighter time frame for the shot. That's very (very very very!) risky for law enforcement though. Suppose they used an 8 pm bright shot of the truck, and later they find out the truck they saw between 10pm and 10am is not exactly the same. They will have tainted their own case rather badly. That's why I believe the shot they used was legitimately from the suspect time period. It may be enhanced.

 

[Carol]

I'd posted this a couple days ago in thread #3 Post 275 about the cctv & the timing of truck being seen:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...algary-30-June-2014-3&p=10709212#post10709212



http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ca...950/story.html


"Employing a high-end security system that includes closed-circuit television, one particularly tall home recorded video of the truck circling the neighbourhood a few times during those crucial hours between JO’ dropping off her son Nathan with his grandparents after their weekend estate sale, and her return the next morning."

Here's the fixed Calgary Herald link:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/c...sappearances+Nathan+Brien/10001950/story.html

I recall reading it. Frankly I suspect a minor piece of bad wording or jumping to conclusions there. The camera probably doesn't show the truck "circling the neighborhood" because the vantage point only shows a small section of street, not the whole neighborhood.

It probably shows the truck appearing multiple times throughout the course of the night. That could just as easily mean the truck was there at 11pm, then did some runs to and from Airdrie, appearing again at 1 am, 3 am, etc. It all depends on how long between the sightings. A few minutes? Sure, then it probably was "circling the neighborhood". But longer gaps in between appearances could mean multiple visits to and from the house.

 

[Carol]

Carol as I have posted before in case you may have missed it, it is only my speculation but maybe LE were looking for DG and his truck from Monday to Friday and they were no where to be found, therefore they released the picture to the public in desperation, asking for assistance in locating it and DG. Also as I've said before, IF DG did this crime and on the Sunday night and LE were looking for him for five days, he could have drove many, many miles with those family members. They could be anywhere. This is why I believe LE are working inside out, starting at the home and expanding outward. MOO.

OK but if LE was actually looking for DG at that time, I think they would have said so, that's fundamental in Amber alerts. So I think it's almost certain they didn't have DG as their POI at the time they published the truck photo.

Police spokesperson also said at press conference that a tip led to the location of the truck.

So putting this all together suggests the most simple and direct path would have been:
1- LE was looking for a suspicious truck seen during the night of the suspected events
2- they got a tip leading to the truck's location in Airdrie
3- they obtained the location's owner/resident info to facilitate search warrants
4- property owner DG has a rap sheet, spiking their interest further
5- confirmed a truck matching the description at the location
6- confirmed the DG's relationship to Liknes & O'Briens

 

[Carol]

Considering DG successfully sued the govt. for unemployment insurance benefits under the false identity, I wouldn't be surprised if the current charge against him is a continuation of benefits seeking behavior under the false identity, namely welfare cheques...

My guess is that the current charge is not for anything major or obvious. It could just be LE wanted a way to hold him in custody.

It could be as simple as saying they found a 15 year old fake ID at the farm, and all they need to do then is say they "thought" he was planning to use it for something bad. Even if that's not even a real concern, the worst that happens is later they say "oh we were mistaken about that", charges are stayed.

The idea is that by then they might have different evidence for or against the POI on the primary case.

 

[AuntieLola]

First time poster, long time lurker here....

I, like some others here, unfortunately think this is a recovery mission now With the recent change of RO's FB profile to a photo of his Dad who has passed, makes me believe that he put his Dad on his profile as a plea to take care of Nathan in heaven. If my son was still missing I would want Nathan's face everywhere, including FB. As others have also said, there have been no more media pleas from the family which is very odd after more than a week.

JMO and again, I hope I'm wrong and they are all found safe!

 

[Carol]

There was a poster "Dangeross" here yesterday relaying what some Airdrie residents said about the truck and farm on the night in question. I'm being deliberately vague because I don't remember those claims being verified.

 

[Snoopster]

Perhaps someone already raised this question...but were there any digital devices missing from the L house? LE refused to comment on whether cell phones, wallets, etc. were left behind. What about computers?

IF DG was responsible for their disappearance, did he take the computers and cell phones to remove possible evidence of a not-so-above-board business venture or evidence of threats he may have made, that AL may have had on his devices?

 

[Cherchri]

Hi all. In the gap while we wait for the search to resume, I'll just muse about some intriguing aspects of the case.

The 'fake ID' charge would seem to be totally contrived to hold the POI. (LE can and does trump up minor or non-existent offences as needed to hold a suspect.)

It could be something as simple as they found an old ID card while searching the farm house and have decided to call that "possession". I don't even think in Canada possessing a fake ID is illegal, it has to actually be used for there to be an offense. That's probably why the current charges speak to "an intent to commit an indictable offense" using the fake ID.

On the one hand, this could indicate they have very little to incriminate the POI that they would need such a charge.

Of course it works the other way: they may have such strong indications about the POI that they have no hesitation about using the ID charge if they are confident that more significant charges will be coming.

LE certainly won't be telling us about that. But we can surmise a bit from what we know and don't know. They requested and were granted a long adjournment on what would normally be a rather mild charge. Consider it this way: if a random person were picked up on the street with a fake ID, there'd never be this kind of custody requested or granted. It's a hint to us that communications with prosecution and judge are such that the need for judicial support was made evident.

If so, it does set up a bit of a drama in the way of putting a ticking clock on finding some stronger evidence. They could request a longer custody on flight risk concerns for the fake ID charge, but we won't know that for a couple of days when the issue of bail comes up.

We also can deduce a bit from the lack of protective wording LE has presented about the POI. When LE has an informant or person they deem to be uninvolved, they tend to go overboard in emphasizing that "so-and-so is not considered a suspect". Even when LE speaks about a suspect, they tend to use softer language until the point at which they are ready to level charges. We've had none of that kind of language - NONE. It strongly suggests they have no protective instinct toward the POI.

Personally I won't rush to judgement. Right now we have a POI whose guilty of having a checkered past, and not much else. All of us have seen where inadvertent theories and public pressure have led LE to tunnel vision and wrong suspects.

There's also the possibility that he had in his possession another identity altogether - a new one. Possibly getting ready to go on the run again after a dastardly deed.

 

[bornofposeidon]

The idea that DG could have been involved in MH's death is preposterous. If you're going to steal an identity, why would you steal the identity of someone you had clear legal links to? This entire line of thinking is based on a misunderstanding of why someone would assume the identity of a dead child, because most people don't read books called How To Disappear And Never Be Found, which tell you to do just that; assume the identity of a child who died and would now be approximately your age if he were still alive. You do this by going to the library and scouring the microfiche of old newspapers' obituary columns, and using the information you obtain there, you order the child's birth certificate from vital statistics. I almost did this myself when I was 17 only because I wanted an ID that said I was over 21 so I could get into nightclubs, but thankfully my conscience got the better of me while I was at the library looking at old obituaries...

So really, forget about DG having any connection whatsoever to MH, all he did was steal the identity in a way that law enforcement is well aware of...

Why do you suppose he would use the names Matt1 and Matt2 as his username on two different chat forums AFTER he has already served time for using MKH's name for some fake ID?

He had his choice of thousands of other usernames and yet he uses Matt...

 

[musicaljoke]

Carol as I have posted before in case you may have missed it, it is only my speculation but maybe LE were looking for DG and his truck from Monday to Friday and they were no where to be found, therefore they released the picture to the public in desperation, asking for assistance in locating it and DG. Also as I've said before, IF DG did this crime and on the Sunday night and LE were looking for him for five days, he could have drove many, many miles with those family members. They could be anywhere. This is why I believe LE are working inside out, starting at the home and expanding outward. MOO.

The picture may have been published in order to get additional information, details they could obtain from witnesses .. did someone see the perp(s) get into the truck, were there witnesses to the events involving the truck during the night at the L's home? Where else was the truck seen on the night of the crime?

 

[peony27]

Do we have any news on when the forensics from the house would be ready? I'm not sure if they would inform the media of who's been injured but I know they said something about it being ready this week.

I was also thinking about the truck, DG had what three days to clean any evidence off it, so it may be very unlikely they find anything on it. Unless there is something some how stuck in the sides of the cracks of the truck bed.

Also thinking about that three day head start DG had, if AL, Kl, and NO are in fact no longer alive (I really hope they are but I doubt it) he had a long time to cover his tracks, so what is the likely hood of police finding anything.

I really hope they find something, having kids myself this is heart breaking and I feel for the family, and the missing. I don't know what I would do if I lost one of my kids.

 

[peony27]

Reading a few pages back about people speculating about the sleep over. My older son loves sleeping over at his grandparents house, when he's there he never wants to leave. So if NO was asking to stay JO like me probably would have said yes, remember his grandparents are leaving so he's going to miss them very much. I also would probably have kept my younger son with me, at that age they are very attached to their parents, and the only time I ever leave him with anyone is if my husband and I are going somewhere kids aren't allowed (wedding, concert, those kinds of things). I really feel for JO, she will have to live with that decision to leave NO there, she thought she was giving her son some wonderful last minute time with his grandparents and it turned into much more, that just breaks my heart.

 

[loveisthemovement]

Reading a few pages back about people speculating about the sleep over. My older son loves sleeping over at his grandparents house, when he's there he never wants to leave. So if NO was asking to stay JO like me probably would have said yes, remember his grandparents are leaving so he's going to miss them very much. I also would probably have kept my younger son with me, at that age they are very attached to their parents, and the only time I ever leave him with anyone is if my husband and I are going somewhere kids aren't allowed (wedding, concert, those kinds of things). I really feel for JO, she will have to live with that decision to leave NO there, she thought she was giving her son some wonderful last minute time with his grandparents and it turned into much more, that just breaks my heart.

It's very natural for me to just leave the already sleeping kids for the night at their grandparents and say I will swing by in the morning to pick them up. You never think anything like this will happen...nothing even close to this.

 

[greenthumb]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/nathan-o-brien-amber-alert-estate-sales-and-safety-1.2699450

Perry, the Toronto private investigator, stressed it’s important not to blame the victims in the Calgary case.

“Nobody in that scenario did something wrong,” he said.

These types of crimes are still rare enough that he’s cautious about pushing any kind of reactionary response.

“I’m not here to say people should stop using Kijiji or never have an estate sale but you need to practise some safety and common sense when you’re doing this kind of stuff,” Perry said.