CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #5

Status
Not open for further replies.
I've been thinking about that manner of phrasing and especially listening when the TV/radio is on. People DO say things like - "Oh, I love my husband to death"; "I bought him a gift and I know he'll love it to death".

I'm not certain there's much we can read into common phraseology. Is there? :doughboy:

I don't purport to be an expert in forensic psycholinguistics, but think that an indepth analysis by such experts might zero in on that particular wording, given the age group and education of the person writing it. As a close friend of the decedent, i think most of us would probably avoid such usage and be more apt to use a term along the lines of "absolutely loved" ... especially since it it not really a "slip of the tongue" when contained in a well thought-out written document.

Another poster had initiated a discussion wrt the possibility of poisoning, so I was wondering if PK had developed a recent habit of bringing food to AG, given the references to the cake and spaghetti sauce.

Dunno ... was just an observation.
 
roseofsharon asked if the Camaro was facing in or out - in one of the videos the police are taking the car to forensics. The car was driven in, facing IN. LE had the rear end hoisted up and the rear end was being put into a police vehicle, back end first.

And to sillybilly about the use of language - I know what you mean. I'd never use that phrase under those circumstances unless my unconrolled inner phychology kind of 'made me say it'. :doughboy: It IS worth talking about; I was merely trying to be a tad delicate! :cupcake:
 
Do we know if AG's car was parked inside the garage facing forward or backed in?Facing IN. But do we know if this was AG's usual way of parking. I'm always backing my car into the garage, so.....??

When looking at the picture of the garage, is it our left side that would be the location of the entrance from the garage into the house?It seems so, but I'm not certain.

Was it reported that the garage was full of hoarded things. Did AG park the vehicle on one side of the garage or in the middle due to all these things.I asked this long ago and never got an answer!

Was there any mud/wetness on the tires when PK found AG?Great question - we were never told!

What side of the vehicle was AG found?I also asked PK about this but I got no answer

Thanks.

My comments are contained within the quote.
 
I started another crime/mystery book by Canadian writer Gail Bowen and this one is about the murders of sex-trade women. So, I was wondering if AG (and possibly SL and SV) could have been playing with men's minds online.

Here's what I'm wondering - it would be very easy to "have some fun" online by pretending to be hot and bothered by men who frequent dating/sex sites. It's an easy passtime; the woman stays home comfy and cosy in her PJ's and simply 'plays' with men. But, something went terribly wrong and a man (men) found out that they were not really chatting with the 19-year-old sexpot they thought they were. This could cause a great deal of humiliation and anger.

Also, they could have signed up for sex-talk telephone pay-for-use lines. The women again remain at home, warm and comfy in their PJ's while earning money for having sex-talk with men. Once the men find out that the woman on the other end of the line is not the so-called young sexpot, this could also result in humiliation and anger.

Humiliation and anger are motives.

Thinking out loud here........:countsheep:
 
Victimology is not about blaming the victim. Rather, it is an integral part of forensic psychology where profiling is concerned. Moreover Victimology is what James Adcock was referring to when he said ( link ):

Police need to go back and start again with the victim’s profile, he suggested. “If you know your victim, you know your murderer.”

That said...


This is actually a good question. 12-step groups depend upon anonymity. They achieve this by going by first name, only. And some attendees use nicknames. Importantly, there are no records kept. And privacy is fiercely protected, ala "what is said here, remains here." Which means it would be tougher to link the victims. That is, it would be tougher to know not only if they attended 12-step meetings but even attended the same meeting. Still, afaik, Audrey wasn't religious, so that could be an argument against attending such groups. They are quite spiritualistic-centric. Though, they use "higher power" as opposed to "God." And many of the groups have adjusted the "higher power" bit to "higher power as you see it." This encourages people of different belief systems, and even those who do not believe, to work the program. Another possible argument against Audrey attending such a group is the amount of disclosure. The meetings generally encourage fairly extensive disclosure. And for all practical purposes, Audrey was a very private person. Even so, the anonymity could potentially provide her an outlet, without breaching her need for privacy. So... all things considered, I think the 12-step angle is def worth pursuing.

To reiterate, victimology is quite often crucial to solving crimes such as this. Which, btw, is why I began trying to piece together a victim profile when I started following this case ( link )

That about sums it up, but some AA groups may be rogue. I was at one once where some of the attendees seemed to be under duress to be there, and weren't there for alcohol at all. One guy said he was there for golf (I guess a golfing addiction).
I myself had been coerced and put under duress to attend (also not for alcohol, though I had once drank plenty in my prime years b4). When I attended, and started hearing all of these non-alcoholic tales, I got a little nervous. A woman beside me sensed this and whispered, "just go along with it and you'll be all right". The leader of the meeting, later walked over to me, put his hands on my shoulders and described how hard he'd been trying to analyze someone's mind (presumably mine....for I was there after being computer stalked) for the previous 3 years. And guys discussing sponsorship talked about broken bones, pushing folks down stairs and using 2-by-4s to get their message across.

I came out of that meeting shaking...needing a drink (I hadn't had one in years). I wanted to report it....but who do you report that to? No one would believe it.

To this day, I have absolutely no idea what the heck was going on there. But it wasn't right.
 
Further to nicgumshoe's point about rogue AA groups - MANY folks who attend the meetings are not sober. A common phrase amongst folks trying to quit alcohol and other drugs is "fake it until you make it".

This indicates that *some* people in these anonymous groups are still pretty messed up by drugs of all types.:twocents:
 
Further to nicgumshoe's point about rogue AA groups - MANY folks who attend the meetings are not sober. A common phrase amongst folks trying to quit alcohol and other drugs is "fake it until you make it".

This indicates that *some* people in these anonymous groups are still pretty messed up by drugs of all types.:twocents:

Trust me...I'm an expert at knowing who's messed up on drugs and alcohol. These people weren't (not one of them). They were mostly well-dressed, and spoke the Queen's English. I've been to other meetings (a long time ago) and know the usual drill. This was not normal. The meeting also lacked spontaneity and seemed rehearsed.
 
Trust me...I'm an expert at knowing who's messed up on drugs and alcohol. These people weren't (not one of them). They were mostly well-dressed, and spoke the Queen's English. I've been to other meetings (a long time ago) and know the usual drill. This was not normal. The meeting also lacked spontaneity and seemed rehearsed.

Yeah, me too!:crazy: So these were average citizens out for a lark? Wow, how weird is that?

I'm thinking you could have reported the event to AA but again, I don't know how!

I gave up on anonymous groups long ago and found salvation in Buddhism. :flashback:
 
Yeah, me too!:crazy: So these were average citizens out for a lark? Wow, how weird is that?

I'm thinking you could have reported the event to AA but again, I don't know how!

I gave up on anonymous groups long ago and found salvation in Buddhism. :flashback:

Well, no they weren't your everyday citizens, but they seemed to be playing a potentially dangerous game. When someone mentioned a possible connection of AG to AA it struck me....given her background.

Let me tell you a little about my past: I was into archaeology, but was also the top ranked poli-sci student at Mac one year. That was 1984, the year CSIS was chartered...at which point I started bumping into all kinds of interesting characters. During summer vacations for 3 years in a row, I bumped into poli-sci profs from Mac and U of T at the places I was vacationing. When one year I ended up in rehab...low and behold...a poli-sci prof was there. After giving up on archaeology and teaching I ended up working for a logistics company (founded in Ottawa in 1984) and started to realize I was being computer-stalked (and felt I was being watched in other ways too....paranoia?...only a bit)

So after that bogus AA meeting, I filed a complaint with SIRC:

http://www.sirc-csars.gc.ca/cmpplt/index-eng.html

After which point, the OPP forced me to go for a psychiatric review. My wife came with me to the hospital for company (keep in mind she was not requested to go...and she didn't speak much English at the time) and stayed with me in a "monitoring" room. After 10 or 20 minutes we were both committed on a mandatory 72 hours stay (my wife was confined to a bed in the intensive care section of a psych ward....amazing how they analyzed her non-english and assessed she should be in ic) and I was allowed to walk the ward and chat with the "other loonies"; most of who had interesting things to say relative to my case. Our child was also taken away. We were drilled daily by various shrinks...and not allowed to leave (way after 72 hours) until we basically said, "nothing happened". Naturally it was a brilliant move on their part to discredit me from that point on.

(There's way more to that story...that's in it a "nutshell" :crazy: )

Now, if AG was into nuclear stuff, and ended up as part of a covert agency (maybe that would explain her rather sudden change to teaching)......just how far would they go? What happens if you never say "nothing happened"?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know, I'm crazy and this never happens in Canada....Well, I've learned to live with that and have moved on long ago. But (psychiatric theories aside) the reality is, it does happen, and it happened to me.
 
Well, no they weren't your everyday citizens, but they seemed to be playing a potentially dangerous game. When someone mentioned a possible connection of AG to AA it struck me....given her background.

Let me tell you a little about my past: I was into archaeology, but was also the top ranked poli-sci student at Mac one year. That was 1984, the year CSIS was chartered...at which point I started bumping into all kinds of interesting characters. During summer vacations for 3 years in a row, I bumped into poli-sci profs from Mac and U of T at the places I was vacationing. When one year I ended up in rehab...low and behold...a poli-sci prof was there. After giving up on archaeology and teaching I ended up working for a logistics company (founded in Ottawa in 1984) and started to realize I was being computer-stalked (and felt I was being watched in other ways too....paranoia?...only a bit)

So after that bogus AA meeting, I filed a complaint with SIRC:

http://www.sirc-csars.gc.ca/cmpplt/index-eng.html

After which point, the OPP forced me to go for a psychiatric review. My wife came with me to the hospital for company (keep in mind she was not requested to go...and she didn't speak much English at the time) and stayed with me in a "monitoring" room. After 10 or 20 minutes we were both committed on a mandatory 72 hours stay (my wife was confined to a bed in the intensive care section of a psych ward....amazing how they analyzed her non-english and assessed she should be in ic) and I was allowed to walk the ward and chat with the "other loonies"; most of who had interesting things to say relative to my case. Our child was also taken away. We were drilled daily by various shrinks...and not allowed to leave (way after 72 hours) until we basically said, "nothing happened". Naturally it was a brilliant move on their part to discredit me from that point on.

(There's way more to that story...that's in it a "nutshell" :crazy: )

Now, if AG was into nuclear stuff, and ended up as part of a covert agency...just how far would they go? What happens if you never say "nothing happened"?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know, I'm crazy and this never happens in Canada....Well, I've learned to live with that and have moved on long ago. But (psychiatric theories aside) the reality is, it does happen, and it happened to me.

Oh wow, I hear ya! And YES, it does happen in Canada, in Southern Ontario, in 'respectable' hospitals and other institutions such as schools of higher learning.

Now, back to AG - she could have run into a bunch of lunatics at such a meeting and unwittingly been followed home, etc. OR, she could have been cyber-stalked as you've mentioned.

Knowing what we sort of know about AG, I really cannot see her saying 'it never happened' and 'by the way, I'm nuts'! I think AG was far too stubborn and set in her ways. The only thing which contradicts my previous sentence would be AG's deep love and concern for her dogs.

This is a very serious case and I'm determined to find justice for AG.

And, thanks for sharing your story here! :)
 
Oh wow, I hear ya! And YES, it does happen in Canada, in Southern Ontario, in 'respectable' hospitals and other institutions such as schools of higher learning.

Now, back to AG - she could have run into a bunch of lunatics at such a meeting and unwittingly been followed home, etc. OR, she could have been cyber-stalked as you've mentioned.

Knowing what we sort of know about AG, I really cannot see her saying 'it never happened' and 'by the way, I'm nuts'! I think AG was far too stubborn and set in her ways. The only thing which contradicts my previous sentence would be AG's deep love and concern for her dogs.

This is a very serious case and I'm determined to find justice for AG.

And, thanks for sharing your story here! :)

Exactly. In my case, I initially rebelled, but they got my child...so I went with "I'm nuts". They had me good.

But AG may not have given in to something like that, and may have figured her dogs would protect her. Maybe she was online and the gov't was afraid she was in contact (unwittingly) with a foreign threat. If she had been a part of CSIS (or it's predecessor) or the CIA or whatever, my guess and experience is they'd stop at nothing to protect national security (even low risks...especially after 911). If they can't get you with "I'm nuts", then they just might get you and make it look like a nut did it. (Maybe AG knew that's how they work, and maybe that's why she said she was afraid she might be raped and murdered one day!)
 
Nicgumshoe, thanks for sharing your very interesting but somewhat alarming story. Some of us have followed closely the thread here on Australian scientist Lachlan Cranswick,who worked at the nuclear plant and who died after Xmas in Deep River Ontario....
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114125&page=20
On the last page of that very long thread, I posted this...
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2011/11/30/19040506.html

"The big thing that China is after is technology and information and military secrets," Brian McAdam told a corporate espionage conference in Gatineau, Que.

"They are really targeting foreign scientists and engineers in a major way."

McAdam said Chinese intelligence officials have perfected the "honey trap" - using agents to seduce visiting business people, scientists, or politicians while secretly videotaping their sexual encounter.

"This happens with incredible frequency," said McAdam. "These (encounters) are now on film and it will be made very clear to (the victims) that they either co-operate or this information will be provided to their husband or wife, their social friends, their employer"
 
Concerning odd people turning up at meetings...in this day and age, one would not be surprised to find certain employers taking a peek to see who might attend such meetings, or if one is a celebrity or politician, who knows what "rougue reporter" or private eye, might want that kind of info? IMO.
 
Nicgumshoe, thanks for sharing your very interesting but somewhat alarming story. Some of us have followed closely the thread here on Australian scientist Lachlan Cranswick,who worked at the nuclear plant and who died after Xmas in Deep River Ontario....
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114125&page=20
On the last page of that very long thread, I posted this...
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2011/11/30/19040506.html

"The big thing that China is after is technology and information and military secrets," Brian McAdam told a corporate espionage conference in Gatineau, Que.

"They are really targeting foreign scientists and engineers in a major way."

McAdam said Chinese intelligence officials have perfected the "honey trap" - using agents to seduce visiting business people, scientists, or politicians while secretly videotaping their sexual encounter.

"This happens with incredible frequency," said McAdam. "These (encounters) are now on film and it will be made very clear to (the victims) that they either co-operate or this information will be provided to their husband or wife, their social friends, their employer"

Thanks dotr!

I can't believe for a second that Cranswick's death was an accident. Just too weird.

With AG, given her background and the low incidence of women in that field at the time, I'd say for sure she was at least considered a possible candidate by some top spy org. They must have been chomping at the bit to sign her up in those Cold War days. She would have been quite an asset back then.

That's funny with the Chinese. Doesn't surprise me at all. I spent time in Hong Kong and Japan. Both the Chinese and Japanese are masters of psychological stuff that Westerners never even dream of. Japanese office politics (often psychological endurance games) would make your head spin, for example.

If only people could keep their clothes on. But it's the small stuff like that that sinks ships.
 
Quoted from nicgumshoe:

If only people could keep their clothes on. But it's the small stuff like that that sinks ships.


Too funny to ignore!:D
 
VIDEO.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2011/12/10/19106881.html
OTTAWA - "The city's top crime investigator confirms he is hunting for a predator."


There aren't any homicides the public doesn't know about. The most recent was Sept. 2, when Leeanne Lawson was found dead between a parking lot and the Ottawa Hydro building on King Edward Ave.

On Friday Chief Vern White made the unprecedented announcement that two weeks ago major crimes investigators had discovered a pattern among Ottawa prostitute homicides. It was unprecedented because he was speaking directly to the city's street-level sex workers, telling them he cared about them, and warning them to take precautions to protect themselves from a newly discovered threat to their lives.

On Saturday, Cameron confirmed that threat is a single predator.

"Yes it's a predator," he said. "Anyone who kills more than one person is a predator. Anyone who kills somebody is a predator. This person is obviously killing vulnerable women and we want to stop him and protect these girls," he said.
 
An interesting aside - in the Gail Bowen book/crime novel I'm reading, the person who found the body is the Number One suspect! Just sayin'......:twocents:

I'm wondering how PK is finding/getting through this festive season. It must be terribly difficult; no more Stollen cakes for AG. I don't know how one would cope. It's difficult enough to cope when the death of a loved one/dear friend was the result of serious, debilitating and painful illness. Very difficult indeed.:sleigh::snowman::sleigh:
 
An interesting aside - in the Gail Bowen book/crime novel I'm reading, the person who found the body is the Number One suspect! Just sayin'......:twocents:

I'm wondering how PK is finding/getting through this festive season. It must be terribly difficult; no more Stollen cakes for AG. I don't know how one would cope. It's difficult enough to cope when the death of a loved one/dear friend was the result of serious, debilitating and painful illness. Very difficult indeed.:sleigh::snowman::sleigh:

I guess to some extent he still is here too, unless it's all part of an LE move to portray him as such. If not....he could very well be our man.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
209
Guests online
2,227
Total visitors
2,436

Forum statistics

Threads
594,818
Messages
18,012,936
Members
229,513
Latest member
meliMar
Back
Top