CANADA Canada - Elizabeth Bain, 22, Scarborough, Ont, 19 June 1990 #2
- Thread starter Sillybilly
- Start date
Imo, location, signs of certain injuries could very well reveal the killer. Everyone known to EB has their story cast in stone by way of investigative notes, testimony, including any changes to a story. Only a complete stranger has the chance to continue to walk free if she is found.
First part is not a logical conclusion at all. Hypothetically, Mb could have been arguing in Ebs car about the letter she sent his gf advising her not to take his abuse and break up with him. Mb is a fair size muscular guy, Eb such a small thing, accidentally breaks her neck, leaves her in the backseat on the floor boards, walks over to his gfs house. Possibly calls his dad in Florida and tells him what happened. Mr. B tells Mb what he's gonna do, because there are some secrets in the household that Mr. B is afraid that will come out. Mark heads home, gets there by 10:15pm, then leaves in his car, parks near where he left Ebs car, takes Ebs car to Pt Perry where his boat is docked. Disposes of Ebs body either by boat or in some swampy area up their. Driving back, disposes of her keychain in the dumpster because he can't be found with it. Parks her car where it was found, drives home for 6am. Mr. B comes home and starts damage control. Car is found on Friday, Mb runs home from work, goes to area, doesn't get out of car and says he has a spare key in his room and goes and gets it. LE focus on RB immediately which is a bonus for them.
You'd have to understand their family dynamics. Mrs B is philipino and was treated as a subservaniant and controlled by Mr B.
Mb was allowed to do whatever he wanted to. Basically Mr B's prodigy so to speak.
So, it is very plausible and absolutely logical that Mrs B would have no knowledge of any events that include Mb as being responsible.
All hypothetical and jmo. Also only one of the various avenues we have explored over the years.
Woodland, if you are speculating that she died at the house on the 19th, then I would agree Mrs B should have knowledge of what happened but then so would youngest brother PB, sister Cb, and their young cousin who was supposed to arrive that day for a visit.
I don't think it's logical for all of them to keep this quiet and not slip up somewhere.
And I'm sure johnpaul would have noticed a strange behaviour change in his friend PB.
Jmo
MB and EB hypothetically arguing in her car where? The Bain driveway or the parking lot on campus somewhat near the tennis courts - or did he follow her into the park adjacent to that parking lot and argue with her there? With his vehicle? Or he drove there with EB in her car?
Left her on the floorboards of her car at the park? RB would have seen that. Or in the Bain driveway? Mrs B sees the car but not EB? Mrs B said EB left for the last time last afternoon - alone. MB never went to his gf's house that night? Or did he go to gf's house after leaving EB with a broken neck wherever and returning to where he left EB by 10:15 pm? Why 10:15 pm?
We know the boat was docked in Port Perry?
With all due respect, a little breezy for scenarios.
Left her on the floorboards of her car at the park? RB would have seen that. Or in the Bain driveway? Mrs B sees the car but not EB? Mrs B said EB left for the last time last afternoon - alone. MB never went to his gf's house that night? Or did he go to gf's house after leaving EB with a broken neck wherever and returning to where he left EB by 10:15 pm? Why 10:15 pm?
We know the boat was docked in Port Perry?
With all due respect, a little breezy for scenarios.
Was just using all known witness sightings in relation to Mbs suspect actions that night and Mr B's suspect actions as you described as damage control.
1)sighting of Eb arguing in her car with a male driving it on the 401 aprox 7:30pm.
2)sighting of Eb arguing with in her car with male in drivers seat parked at 3r auto which is about 50ft from where car was found on the 22nd. Approx 8-8:15pm
3)Mbs gfs account of Mb at her place that night which is a few min walk from 3r auto.
4)Rb's account that Mbs car was in driveway at approx 9:15pm, a time which Mb himself testifies that he's not home but at school in class.
5)Mb testifies he was home by 10:15pm from school,
6)Mrs B testifies that Mb was not home that night,
Mbs gf does not recollect him staying at her place that night, Mr B makes few calls separate times around 1-2am ish to remind them that Mb stayed the whole night there
7)Mb had a boat which he testified was moored at the house at time of disappearance but no one can confirm seeing it there.
8) will check my research, but I'm pretty sure his boat was on the lake scugog area if memory serves me correct
9) LE's only theory that Rb was convicted on was that her body was disposed of in the Pt Perry area based on two witness sightings of the car in that area.
10)LE forensic evidence determined that Eb at some point was laying on the floor in the backseat.
11) it would have been possible for the car to be left where if was found for couple hours that night with her on the floor before coming back and driving the car to Pt Perry. After all the car was parked there for 3 days before PB found it, and it is literally a 2 min drive from there to the little lot near the tennis courts and park where her car was spotted on the 19th by a witness and Rb.
I'm not saying Mb is responsible, but there is 100% more circumstancial evidence to look at him vs Rb.
RSBM
Using these particular points as hypothetical MB involvement -
LE was unable to determine if MB was in class that night - per NCTM. Even Mrs B doesn't claim where he was - just that he wasn't home.
If MB left EB on the rear floor of her car parked at the autobody shop, where was she before that when her car was seen in a parking lot on campus? RB looked in the car while it was in the parking lot 2 or 3 times - left a note once and came back to retrieve it.
How did MB know EB was parked in that lot in order to find her? His mom never said he came home from work looking for her before class. His mom claims to know where she was then and where she had been throughout the day.
Who drove EB's car to the parking lot? The only one claiming knowledge of that is Mrs B.
Fwiw, if I killed someone at my home and wanted to cover it up, the first thing I would have to do is get that persons vehicle out of my driveway.
Also, fwiw, MB could very well have been home helping his mom with the patio stone task that night, and went inside when RB drove up. Then went to gf's house for a short appearance - with moving the car as one more task to be completed that night.
Jmo.
<modsnip>Btw, her car was never parked on a campus lot.
And all I said about Mb being at class was from his own words which are in direct conflict with his gfs words. I said nothing about LE.
The one consistent thing is, about him being home at 10:15pm. Mb gives that time for a specific reason.
As I said, I'm not saying Mb is responsible, just putting a plausible scenario out there. It obv doesn't fit with <modsnip> thinking that she was killed at home and therefore all evidence has to fit around that. Just like when the focused on Rb and made the evidence fit him.
<modsnip>
JohnPaul
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not that i recall......right now anyway
if you have any info on who they are and care to share it, something might pop back into my head
Can anyone agree about possible locations to search for EB's remains?
Where are the most promising places to look?
In recent case, a missing young man's body was located many years later, embedded in the chimney of a stranger's little used cottage and i wondered, if vacation homes associated with EB have been searched? imo.
Where are the most promising places to look?
In recent case, a missing young man's body was located many years later, embedded in the chimney of a stranger's little used cottage and i wondered, if vacation homes associated with EB have been searched? imo.
Using post #12 as a more recent example only of what would be visible if one were to bury someone on their property - also discussed in thread #1.
What exactly would someone see underground?
In thread #1, it was once suggested that a lot of dirt would be displaced in such a case. Not so, imo. The proper way to plant something in the ground is to place water in the hole a number of times while planting. Any landscaper with even a minimal amount of experience would know this.
Did a hole and fill it part way with water. Plant you item in the hole - all the while the water is absorbing into the ground and dirt on the bottom is filling around the item. Replace some of the dirt around the item, then fill part way with water again. The dirt will settle around the item, not above it. More water, more dirt until you reach the top. Dirt displacement will be nil.
However, if you wanted to leave room for stone screenings at the top of the hole, and have the top surface of the hole down about an inch to make a patio stone flush with the ground, then you may want to take part of a wheel barrel of dirt away, say to another part of your property where you have trees or a garden.
Picture a petite person lying on the floor - how much displacement would there be? Just don't understand the thinking that someone, including LE, would notice something underground.
NB: Andrew has the same surname as Eb. We need to know this or none of this post will have any meaning. And we have never been able to locate him so we believe it is a false name used.
Someone named or using the name of Andrew B rented room #11 at the lido motel on Mon June 18th 1990. The same motel and same room number that Rb and Eb had rented 2-3 weeks earlier.
This motel is only couple mins from where Ebs car was found on the 22.
Andrew B rented a room in a house at the beginning of June 1990 and vacated it around 1st week of July 1990.
This house is located twice as far away from the motel as Rb's home. So prob a good half hour away. Down around Danforth and old Danforth area.
This house was a house with rooms rented out. The owner of this house lived/lives north of the 401/ morningside rd area and there doesn't seem to be a personal connection to this house owner and the B family.
However, their next door neighbours appear in the B family 1990 personal phone book and their original address is scratched out and a new one is put in which means they moved, and the new address is the one which puts them in the 401/morningside area beside as neighbours of the person who owns the house that Andrew B rented a room in.
The identification that this Andrew B gave to the motel when renting the room comes back to someone named David Q.
So either Andrew is a false name or he used false identification.
Btw, Mon June 18th 1990, is the night that when Ebs younger sister Cb got home from work says she saw Eb laying on her bed still dressed, clutching a flower (a rose I believe).
All this info is factual.
Bringing over post #649, page 44, thread #1.
Mrs Bain's account of Monday 18 June through Wednesday 20 June - using pages 55, 75, 85, 86. A couple of items will be RB's account, which I will note.
Mrs B loaned her car to daughter C on Monday am, so she used daughter Liz's car to go shopping, also in the am. After shopping Mrs B topped up the gas tank and ordered the limestone she wanted for the driveway. No mention of the patio stones.
At 3:00 pm the three Bain women all went to work - Mrs B and C at the hospital, Liz at the care centre. Mrs B and C returned about midnight - Liz was asleep in her room, still in street clothes. C spent the night even though she lived elsewhere.
At 10:00 am Tuesday, sister C saw Liz in her room studying, still in same street clothes she slept in. Mrs B had received her limestone and was raking it in. Soon after, Liz left to go to the campus to check some papers. Mrs B asked her to pick up milk on the way home. Liz returned in 30 minutes with the milk.
Between 1:00 and 2:00 pm Tuesday, Liz left again for a jog. Took her car so Mrs B assumed she went to the park beside the campus. Liz returned within the hour.
At 4:00 pm Mrs B said Liz left to check the tennis schedule at the campus. Liz said she would be home in a couple of hours for dinner. Liz had a class at 7:00 pm at the campus.
Liz did not return for dinner. RB's account - arrived at Bain house about 9:30 pm to ask if Liz was there - brother M's car was in the driveway. RB had seen her car at 6:45 pm in the lot near the park, unlocked and drivers window down. After class ended at 9:00 pm and RB did not see Liz, he checked the lot again about 9:15 pm and the car was gone. Mrs B was raking the limestone and had not seen Liz - she was hoping to finish the limestone project before picking up Mr B at airport the next day about 2:00 pm.
Wednesday at 6:30 am - Mrs B called RB's home looking for Liz. She did not want to disturb him in the middle of the night, implying, but not stating, Mrs B was aware during the night Liz had not come home. RB arrived at the Bain residence about 7:00 am. Brother M had left for work. Brother P was asleep. No mention C had stayed another night. Mr B had left for Florida on 12 June and was still there.
Mrs B had called LE in the meantime. Mrs B made no other calls looking for Liz. RB (his account) began looking for phone numbers on his arrival to make calls, specifically Liz's friend AC - Liz had told RB she was having dinner with AC the night before. Brother M called home - RB got directions to AC's house from him.
RB (his account) picked up AC and returned to Bain residence. LE arrived and called in the report from the house. RB (his account) started making calls to friends - then went with AC to where he had seen Liz's car the night before and the tennis courts at the campus. Mrs B went grocery shopping and picked Mr B up from airport early afternoon. Did not tell Mr B anything until they were in the car on the way home.
According to Mrs B, Liz intended to make 4 separate trips to campus that day.
----
Forgot that, according to RB, EB's car was gone from the parking lot by 9:15 pm on 19 June and that a few minutes later he saw MB's car in the driveway at home.
Still wondering how and when the patio stones arrived at the house. Have never seen where anyone mentions that.
Mrs Bain's account of Monday 18 June through Wednesday 20 June - using pages 55, 75, 85, 86. A couple of items will be RB's account, which I will note.
Mrs B loaned her car to daughter C on Monday am, so she used daughter Liz's car to go shopping, also in the am. After shopping Mrs B topped up the gas tank and ordered the limestone she wanted for the driveway. No mention of the patio stones.
At 3:00 pm the three Bain women all went to work - Mrs B and C at the hospital, Liz at the care centre. Mrs B and C returned about midnight - Liz was asleep in her room, still in street clothes. C spent the night even though she lived elsewhere.
At 10:00 am Tuesday, sister C saw Liz in her room studying, still in same street clothes she slept in. Mrs B had received her limestone and was raking it in. Soon after, Liz left to go to the campus to check some papers. Mrs B asked her to pick up milk on the way home. Liz returned in 30 minutes with the milk.
Between 1:00 and 2:00 pm Tuesday, Liz left again for a jog. Took her car so Mrs B assumed she went to the park beside the campus. Liz returned within the hour.
At 4:00 pm Mrs B said Liz left to check the tennis schedule at the campus. Liz said she would be home in a couple of hours for dinner. Liz had a class at 7:00 pm at the campus.
Liz did not return for dinner. RB's account - arrived at Bain house about 9:30 pm to ask if Liz was there - brother M's car was in the driveway. RB had seen her car at 6:45 pm in the lot near the park, unlocked and drivers window down. After class ended at 9:00 pm and RB did not see Liz, he checked the lot again about 9:15 pm and the car was gone. Mrs B was raking the limestone and had not seen Liz - she was hoping to finish the limestone project before picking up Mr B at airport the next day about 2:00 pm.
Wednesday at 6:30 am - Mrs B called RB's home looking for Liz. She did not want to disturb him in the middle of the night, implying, but not stating, Mrs B was aware during the night Liz had not come home. RB arrived at the Bain residence about 7:00 am. Brother M had left for work. Brother P was asleep. No mention C had stayed another night. Mr B had left for Florida on 12 June and was still there.
Mrs B had called LE in the meantime. Mrs B made no other calls looking for Liz. RB (his account) began looking for phone numbers on his arrival to make calls, specifically Liz's friend AC - Liz had told RB she was having dinner with AC the night before. Brother M called home - RB got directions to AC's house from him.
RB (his account) picked up AC and returned to Bain residence. LE arrived and called in the report from the house. RB (his account) started making calls to friends - then went with AC to where he had seen Liz's car the night before and the tennis courts at the campus. Mrs B went grocery shopping and picked Mr B up from airport early afternoon. Did not tell Mr B anything until they were in the car on the way home.
According to Mrs B, Liz intended to make 4 separate trips to campus that day.
----
Forgot that, according to RB, EB's car was gone from the parking lot by 9:15 pm on 19 June and that a few minutes later he saw MB's car in the driveway at home.
Still wondering how and when the patio stones arrived at the house. Have never seen where anyone mentions that.
JohnPaul
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i have no knowledge or memory of this
Thanks johnpaul, knew you wouldn't have heard about the details, only a handful have. Was just wondering if you had ever heard of either name mentioned in family conversations, and you haven't.
Thank you
JohnPaul
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i was at one of the bains rental properties a few times, but not in the 401/morningside area, it was off lawrence road near manse road
Woodland:
Can you spell out your speculative scenario for us. You keep hinting with pieces here and there, but I for one would like to read it all together as one piece of work to get a better picture of it.
Would appreciate it. Thanks.
Can you spell out your speculative scenario for us. You keep hinting with pieces here and there, but I for one would like to read it all together as one piece of work to get a better picture of it.
Would appreciate it. Thanks.