CANADA Canada - Elizabeth Bain, 22, Scarborough, Ont, 19 June 1990 #2

[eyesonly]

Mrs B kept a stash of family blood on hand is playing devils advocate?

Well I'm trying to determine in your thinking were they would ever get Ebs younger sisters blood to plant it in the car that's all.

 

[JohnPaul]

Johnpaul:
Do you ever recall seeing scratch-like marks on the inside ceiling of Ebs car above the passengers seat, before her disappearance.
So if you sat in the passengers seat, and looked up to the car ceiling.

i dont recall anything like that,

i dont remember too much about the inside other then it was a two door, im a big guy and had difficulty getting in and out of the rear seats, it was also definitely a manual transmission, black cloth interior i believe.....PB and i often did repairs together on the car for EB.....for what its worth EB was not a very good driver, she often had to get PB to back the car out of the driveway for her, her parking spot required a 90 degree turn to the patio stone area, i recall her hitting the gates a on more then one occassion, and then asking PB to help, whenever PB parked the car at the house he would always reverse it in because he knew EB would not be able to get it back out,

 

[Woodland]

this patio stone thing is somewhat coming back to me now,

i now remember mrs b moving the stones, but i can't remember where she was moving them to or from,

the reason i remember is because i specifically remember saying to PB "she shouldn't be lifting those by herself" because they are very heavy,

the patio stone part of the driveway was already there long before the disappearance, so im not sure what she was doing with the stones,

Snipped by me - post #50, page 4.

Where the patio stones came from and when is intriguing to me - thank-you JohnPaul for this added info.

Could Mrs B have been taking some patio stones from somewhere at the rear of the house? A patio area?

Patio stones are very heavy - in my estimation only, a minimum of 3 stones across and 5 deep would be needed to park a car on - which was the purpose of this job. PB had just obtained his own vehicle and was not going to share the Tercel with EB any longer. That's 15 stones - however it would or should also depend on what existed - ie line up one edge with existing patio stones and carry across.

One would need not only a decent size pick-up truck, but one that could handle the weight of 15 or more patio stones. No mention of order and delivery has always bothered me - only the stone screenings are mentioned being ordered the day before and delivered the morning of the 19th. But picking up bags of screenings is a simple task.

Moving patio stones from one area of the lot to another would fit where the stones came from - there is no mention they were delivered with the screenings.

If so, why disturb one area that would now have to have something done? A make-over of an existing patio stone area was planned for later? A different style of stone - soil and seed to fill it in? Was anything done to an existing stone area other than pick up patio stones? Was it dug up in any way?

One reason this sticks with me is, Mr B left for Florida on 12 June (read that in the last few days but did not flag a post, it exists in thread #1 many times) - Mrs B reports she ordered stone screenings on 18 June for delivery 19 June in the am. She begins job alone on morning of 19 June - according to her - and wants to have job finished by early afternoon of the 20th when she will pick up Mr B at airport. Have never understood the timing. Talk of finishing the patio stone/parking pad area on the 20th is the only place where I have noticed Mr B's return is alluded to have been fixed all along. No other mention of his fixed return seems to come up.

Just find a ring of truth lacking in this regard. Jmo.

 

[Woodland]

This post is from thread #1, page 39, post #581 -

Where the patio work was going on was in the back yard and I can assure you it's not that secluded back there nor at the front. It's a pretty busy street with lots of neighbours and people around. As for the patio, again I can assure you, there is nothing under there.

And post #583

Also, the patio work in the back yard was done well before June. The work being done was by the driveway but it's visible from the street.

Not sure though how the poster was able to speak with absolute knowledge on what other landscaping was done that year at the B residence and when.

 

[eyesonly]

Regarding Mr. B's trip to Florida. He went on the 12th to look at repairs needed to one of his rental properties. Trying to find out for sure if it was a planned scheduled trip or a moments notice kind of trip cause of the repair needed.
He tried to fix the repair himself as he didn't want to pay someone to do it. Believe he finally gave up and got someone to do it.
As for his return on the 20th. Trying again to find out for sure if it was scheduled or his return was open based on when he would be finished his business in Florida.
I did just receive a text from JS from ncltm, who married Ebs aunt. As I asked him if he could check his notes on the subject which he will but off the top off his head he remembered this........

"Well he called Mrs. Bain on June 18 and told her to pick him up on Wed. 20 because he wouldnt be able to talk to her on 19 th because he will be " in transit' ""

 

[Woodland]

Any idea who the source of that info is?

 

[eyesonly]

Any idea who the source of that info is?

The source of the info about Mr B in transit on the 19th as per a text just received by JS.......

"From phone records and mrs bain"

So it was a conversation JS had directly with Mrs B
Is that the info you were looking for a source on woodland?

 

[Woodland]

If I have this correct - Mrs B told JS sometime after the fact (inserting time frame would be most appreciated) that she spoke to Mr B in Florida on 18 June and they agreed she would pick him up at Pearson airport on the 20th early afternoon?

They did not speak again until they saw each other at the airport?

JS saw phone records for the 18 June call? From Mr B to Mrs B? Or Mrs B to Mr B?

Did JS see all phone records? The B residence phone records for more than the 18th June?

Or JS did not see the B residence phone records?

Thanks

 

[eyesonly]

If I have this correct - Mrs B told JS sometime after the fact (inserting time frame would be most appreciated) that she spoke to Mr B in Florida on 18 June and they agreed she would pick him up at Pearson airport on the 20th early afternoon?

.........yes after the fact. JS did not arrive on the scene till later in the summer. I can ask if you need an exact date. But I definetly know that it was after he received one of the Bains missing flyers at his home, when he first went down and introduced himself and asked if he could help.


They did not speak again until they saw each other at the airport?

...........yes, that is the indication, and there has been no information to say otherwise. I believe they both testified to that fact.

JS saw phone records for the 18 June call? From Mr B to Mrs B? Or Mrs B to Mr B?

.........I will check that out for you, which way the call went. I believe it was from Mr B to Mrs B but I will make definitely sure on that.

Did JS see all phone records? The B residence phone records for more than the 18th June?

..........yes he saw more phone records than the 18th. But these were only phone records for long distance calls.

Or JS did not see the B residence phone records?

.........yes he saw them and was allowed a copy of them by the B's.


Thanks

I have inserted the answers above.

 

[Woodland]

An exact date when JS saw the phone records and Mrs B confided in him about the calls isn't necessary thanks - that it was long after the fact is good info.

Did the long distance call records show more that the 18th? A phone bill would show a whole month, regardless of start or end date.

Seems to me, at that time, phone bills showed incoming and outgoing long distance calls? With the time as well as the date?

Thanks

 

[eyesonly]

An exact date when JS saw the phone records and Mrs B confided in him about the calls isn't necessary thanks - that it was long after the fact is good info.

Did the long distance call records show more that the 18th? A phone bill would show a whole month, regardless of start or end date.

Seems to me, at that time, phone bills showed incoming and outgoing long distance calls? With the time as well as the date?

Thanks

I believe the records are for at least April to Sept of 1990. And yes you are right, they show whether call is incoming or outgoing, as well as time date and duration.
I won't be able to get any exact info from the phone records until tomorrow.
Make a list of phone details you would like, and I'll do my best to get as much of it as I can.

 

[Woodland]

Just incoming and outgoing calls for the 19th - I think.

 

[Woodland]

Didn't MB have his own separate phone line at the house? Phone records for that line?

 

[JohnPaul]

Didn't MB have his own separate phone line at the house? Phone records for that line?

yes he did,

PB would call me from MB's phone sometimes if MR.B was on the house phone,

if i remember correctly i think sister C also had her own phone line, while she was living there

 

[Woodland]

Reminders only re B residence phones -

From post #817, page 55, thread #1 -

NCTM - page 100 - 101. EGen could not call her back until the next night - 19 June. He called at 8:00 pm, not knowing she had a class scheduled for that time. The line was busy. He called again around 10:00 pm - the line was busy.

EGen could not understand why no one answered as they had call waiting. Mr Bain explained that with, brother P had a cordless phone in his room, and apparently if you have more than one cordless phone connected to a line, the intermittent waves can knock out your line altogether. Anyone who called would have got a busy signal. According to Mr Bain 'I'm almost positive that's what happened'.

From post #849, page 57, thread #1 - this post does not contain a page number from NCTM or other reference, but the message and that is was erased is mentioned a number times - a combination of RB's account and MB or some other person familiar with the message being erased.

It does bear mentioning that RB left a message on MB's phone that night when he couldn't get through to their family line asking him to call RB no matter what time he got home and MB for some inexplicable reason erased it and never explained to RB why.

 

[Woodland]

From post #865, page 58, thread #1 -

Regarding the busy phone line on the 19th. Was going thru my old notes from like 1998 and found a scenario I had suggested.
I believe the bains had a computer and if they got their internet through a bell line and not cable, if someone was using the computer that would tie up the phone line it was connected to.

Knowing the technology available at that time would be helpful.

In 1990, could a computer have been used on the 19th into early am of the 20th for communication between the B residence and Florida? A series of e-mails? Were chat lines available then? Seems a little early for this technology - thinking closer to 1997/98, but maybe not.

 

[eyesonly]

Just incoming and outgoing calls for the 19th - I think.

For June 19th, 1990, long distance records only.

1) from orange county fl to B home, at 7:52am for 4mins

2) from orange county fl to north port fl charged to B home, at 4:21pm for 2 mins

3) from orange county fl to St Petersburg fl, charged to B home, at 4:31pm, for 7 mins

4) from orange county fl to Toronto, charged to the B home, at 5pm, for 3mins. ( this is the phone call mr B made to national sports at cederbrae mall regarding the price of a tennis racket, as per his testimony)

That's all there is, and there are no long distance calls recorded on mb's phone for June 19th 1990, either incoming, outgoing, or charged to.

 

[Woodland]

So you have seen a copy of MB's phone records for the 19th, or has someone said this?

 

[eyesonly]

Johnpaul,
Wondering if you've been able to recall any more details about the calls Mr B made to you trying to get you to doubt yourself about whatever he was asking about
Even the subject area would be great. Was it about timing with you and PB, or anything to do with anyone else, or what the timing was around,

Thanks

 

[JohnPaul]

Johnpaul,
Wondering if you've been able to recall any more details about the calls Mr B made to you trying to get you to doubt yourself about whatever he was asking about
Even the subject area would be great. Was it about timing with you and PB, or anything to do with anyone else, or what the timing was around,

Thanks

i honestly can not remember the specifics now, it was most likely about the timing of that day,

i just remember him asking me many questions, pretty much anytime i was at the house after the disappearance, he would sit me down and have a little "chat", basically any time i saw him after the disappearance he would ask me questions, or as i said previously also on the phone,

pretty much every answer i gave him, he would kind of question me further about it, like he never believed my answers, or he was just trying to steer me in a different direction, he was never rude about it or obnoxious in any way, it was more of a friendly tone of voice, he would just kind of always say "but are you sure about that?", and then he would suggest something different might have happened, to try to make me believe something else happened, even though i am sure my answers were correct,

another simulated conversation for example......

MR.B - "what day do you recall MB buying his boat and bringing it back to the house?"

Me - "that was on june 15th"

MR.B - "are you sure it was on that day?"

Me - "yes i am sure because PB and i had just come home from our (blank) exam that day from school"

MR.B - "i think you might be mistaken, it was probably a much earlier time then that"

once again a simulated conversation just as an example,

even though i could give specific proof of when things happened, he still would never believe it, he basically never believed a word that came out of my mouth, either that or he was just trying to make me doubt myself,



on a side note, who would somebody talk to regarding this case if they wanted to provide more information?