GUILTY Canada - Marie-France Comeau, 37, & Jessica Lloyd, 27, slain, Ont, 2009 & 2010 - #7

It's the sort of book that should be thrown in the trash to protect others from reading it.
Just browsing through what you can see on the google books link above, it looks like the author would have to be as sick as Williams to conjure up all those details in his imagination. *advertiser censored* for pervs, I would say.
 
I made the mistake of taking it along as light reading while my son was participating in sports ... not a good idea. It's the sort of book that should be thrown in the trash to protect others from reading it.

I bought the book because I would truly like to understand the dichotomy between the mind that rose to such heights in the military and the mind that coldly; without empathy, degrades and dehumanizes women. The book seems to sensationalize rather than analyze ... at least I haven't gotten to any part of the book that analyzes this type of sociopathic mind.

One point that struck me is that Williams covered his victim's eyes and often their mouths as well. The eyes and the mouth are how we communicate, yet that is what Williams eliminated in his victims. He then victimized them for hours - one of them for 22 hours.

Victim 4 is such a tragedy. She was compliant from the moment she realized that he was in her bedroom. The police officer had seen the SUV parked on her property less than an hour before victim 4 returned home, went to the house to check on the victim and made a huge error in not taking down the SUV license plate number. If the license plate had been recorded, victim 4 would be alive today. It was 9 AM the following morning that the alarm was raised and noon when police were contacted. Victim 4 was alive until about 9 PM that day. If they'd had the license plate number, they could easily have found Williams at his home in Tweed assaulting the victim.


I will never find any excuse to forgive the fact that the license was never taken down and checked out... she noticed the SUV..went as far to knock on the door but neglected to take the tag # which should have been routine..even an ordinary citizen would have done that...to think that Jessica was that close to being saved boggles the mind.....
 
Just browsing through what you can see on the google books link above, it looks like the author would have to be as sick as Williams to conjure up all those details in his imagination. *advertiser censored* for pervs, I would say.

I believe that some content in the book is actual transcript that investigators made from the video that Williams shot while assaulting the victims. It's horrific what they went through before they were actually murdered. Williams was cold and calculating throughout ... playing the gentle man at times to seduce his victims into thinking that he was not as evil as he was. He is a master manipulator, someone that has learned to say all the right things at the right time while he doesn't feel a thing. The words are just words ... emptiness is behind them. When they were distressed, he was amused. The more they resisted, the more violent he was.

I remembered why he commited the first murder ... according to him it was because he was afraid investigators would connect the dots with the photography. He didn't want that to happen, so he believed (claimed) that he had to kill the last two victims. I suspect that if he is ever released, he will be as dangerous then as he is today.
 
One difference between BTK and Russell Williams is that BTK didn't wear a disguise, as far as I remember, but Williams did. Williams wore a black skull cap (like a fisherman's cap) and a headband. The headband was put on after the skull cap and worn just below his eyes. When he first attacked women, he hit them hard in the head while they were asleep (Ted Bundy) and told them not to look, but it seems he kept on his disguise - for the most part. He was at the homes of his victims and stalked them before he attacked them, just like BTK. With victim 3, after Russell Williams blindfolded her eyes and mouth with duct tape, he removed his disguise; threw it on the bed, then picked out the underwear from the drawer, one by one, and draped them over his victim's body, photographing everything, before he murdered her ... but he had also wrapped her head in a towel and duct tape. Victim 3 was killed after about four hours, victim four was moved to a different location and brutalized for 22 hours. Victim 4 had to model all of her underwear with Williams directing the photo shoot - in his mind. Then she too was killed. She was put in a fetal position and wrapped head to toe in duct tape while he flew a crew to California and back. He later put her in the same location where he had recently learned his neighbour, Jones, liked to hunt. Williams had pornographic materials on his computer that suggested he was building his courage to capture a teenage girl and hold her for some time.
 
I believe that some content in the book is actual transcript that investigators made from the video that Williams shot while assaulting the victims. It's horrific what they went through before they were actually murdered. Williams was cold and calculating throughout ... playing the gentle man at times to seduce his victims into thinking that he was not as evil as he was. He is a master manipulator, someone that has learned to say all the right things at the right time while he doesn't feel a thing. The words are just words ... emptiness is behind them. When they were distressed, he was amused. The more they resisted, the more violent he was.

I remembered why he commited the first murder ... according to him it was because he was afraid investigators would connect the dots with the photography. He didn't want that to happen, so he believed (claimed) that he had to kill the last two victims. I suspect that if he is ever released, he will be as dangerous then as he is today.

In a footnote in the book it is stated that according to RW's kindergarten teacher, she felt that JL had a VERY stricking resemblence to RW's mother back in her day. I wonder if JL was chosen because of this as RW had a falling out with him mom and had not spoken for a few years.
 
In a footnote in the book it is stated that according to RW's kindergarten teacher, she felt that JL had a VERY stricking resemblence to RW's mother back in her day. I wonder if JL was chosen because of this as RW had a falling out with him mom and had not spoken for a few years.

Appleby's book went into Wiliam's background and I seem to remember that Williams was shuffled around and then sent away to boarding school when his parents split up. I'd have to reread it, but I think there was some unusual relationships between Williams and his parents. I suspect his problems started in childhood, so what is astonishing is that he was able to hide that part of himself for so long ... and this is what doesn't make sense ... I don't think someone as deviant as he is could have hidden that deviance for 30-40 years ... so what did his wife know and how did she view that information? Was it just Williams being a bit of a weirdo and that was a family secret or what?

It's interesting that he put his wife and his cat on pedestals and viewed other women as non-human. Personally, I find it hard to believe that his wife didn't know there was a screw loose somewhere. His friend from University described him as obsessive compulsive, but that was just the tip of the iceberg.
 
I suspect his problems started in childhood, so what is astonishing is that he was able to hide that part of himself for so long ... and this is what doesn't make sense ... I don't think someone as deviant as he is could have hidden that deviance for 30-40 years ... so what did his wife know and how did she view that information? Was it just Williams being a bit of a weirdo and that was a family secret or what?

It's interesting that he put his wife and his cat on pedestals and viewed other women as non-human. Personally, I find it hard to believe that his wife didn't know there was a screw loose somewhere. His friend from University described him as obsessive compulsive, but that was just the tip of the iceberg.
RSBM

:clap: otto, glad to see you are starting to question the same things many of us have been asking for a long time, now that you are leaning more details about the case,

It just doesn't make any sense that he only started being 'weird' at 44!!

As for 'the escalating behaviour' hmmmm, I personally still have my doubts that there are only 4 victims.
It makes much more sense that when he was promoted, and felt he was no longer going to be traveling and moving that much, that he thought it was safe to use a computer to keep records, and videos/pictures files.

He didn't seem to mind the second victim to connect dots that there was a perv taking photographs. His excuse of having to kill Jessica because otherwise, she will connect the dots because she knew he was taking pictures is just that, an excuse. (IMO)

IMHO, he didn't kill the Tweed victims for the simple fact that he lived there. He didn't want to live in an area where a murder had been committed.
Same thing in Orleans, Ottawa, he would have never committed a murder there, only burglarized and stole lingerie/trophies.

So IMO, people are seeing this the wrong way....it was actually 'safer' for women to live in close proximity to his areas of residence. He would never kill anyone around his home(s). Who wants to live close to where a murder has been committed? He is a neat freak, he wanted his home and area to be 'clean'.

The murders were committed FAR AWAY from where he lived. Maybe he took a big risk with Jessica, because she didn't live that far away, but he knew it was a different LE force who were going to investigate (the Belleville LE), not the OPP.

So, IMHO there could be other murdered victims in other parts of the country. We know he burned something (lingerie? clothing? photographs? notes?) somewhere around or beyond the Ottawa Greenbelt.
How can we be sure there are no other murders committed by him, but he was diligent burning and destroying all the evidence?

That is just my own opinion, because that could explain a lot of things.
Like Judge Judy says: "If it doesn't make sense, then it is not true"

As for the wife, I guess we have already expressed our opinions, l o n g before we were told we cannot talk about it.
 
Just found this MacLeans writeup, dated October 2011, that I don't believe has been posted here. If it has already been posted, my apologies.

There’s no way to spot another Russell Williams
An internal military review concludes there is no off-the-shelf exam to detect sociopathic killers
And on the Sunday night in February 2010 when Williams confessed to police that he was a serial killer in colonel’s clothing, West was among the first in uniform to hear the unthinkable news.

Early the next morning, while Williams was leading police to Jessica Lloyd’s lifeless body, Kevin West picked up his BlackBerry and typed a message to senior staffers at the base. “Ladies and gentlemen,” he wrote, at 2:11 a.m. “Request you all meet in the WHQ conference room as early as possible tomorrow morning. I will be in my office for 0700 hrs. This is extremely important, more information to follow.”
read more: http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/10/12/screening-for-psychopaths/

What I wonder is if sociopaths never let their guard down? not at work, not at home?
Just for that brief millisecond, that odd look in their eyes, that 'something' that an intuitive person can 'read' and 'know' there is something not right.
 
The comments under the article link above are pretty interesting, and I think/know now my neighbour for sure is a psychopath we always knew she was down right weird but never had a word for it before eeeek!
 
Just found this MacLeans writeup, dated October 2011, that I don't believe has been posted here. If it has already been posted, my apologies.

There’s no way to spot another Russell Williams
An internal military review concludes there is no off-the-shelf exam to detect sociopathic killers
read more: http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/10/12/screening-for-psychopaths/

What I wonder is if sociopaths never let their guard down? not at work, not at home?
Just for that brief millisecond, that odd look in their eyes, that 'something' that an intuitive person can 'read' and 'know' there is something not right.

When reading about Jessica in the Camouflaged Killer book, I had to stop and think about what was really going on. He was at her house when she returned about about 10:45. She was still awake when he went into her bedroom. At about 4 AM he made the decision to take her to his Tweed home to continue the assault. There was some sort of tipping point where he decided that everything else in his life was secondary. He must have felt very safe and powerful in his career to believe that he was beyond suspicion.

I think all four victims were well aware of the fact that they were dealing with a very dangerous man within seconds of meeting him, so why didn't others sense that as well? I think victim 3 had a lot more guts than Williams ever did. She fought for her life in ways that probably surprised Williams, yet when Williams was put under the spot light, he caved the minute he thought his wife would suffer the inconvenience of having her house searched. If there was a war and Williams was captured, he would be the first to give in to his captors the minute his wife was inconvenienced ... there should certainly be some sort of screening for a weakness like that in the mlitary.

It was through reading about what Williams did to his victims that I began to wonder what his wife knew. There's no way that Williams came up with everything he did on the spur of the moment ... so I think his wife was aware of the fact that he was not quite right, but she probably compartmentalized it. When she was at a work event with Williams, where Williams mother and brother were present, someone asked her where the mother and brother were staying. She didn't know, and said that was "William's department". That seemed so odd to me. That's the sort of thing married couples should discuss, yet she didn't seem to realize how odd it was that she didn't know where her mother in law and brother in law were staying. It was as though William's mother, brother, and perhaps even his wife, were props in his life.
 
..., yet when Williams was put under the spot light, he caved the minute he thought his wife would suffer the inconvenience of having her house searched. If there was a war and Williams was captured, he would be the first to give in to his captors the minute his wife was inconvenienced ... there should certainly be some sort of screening for a weakness like that in the mlitary.

I honestly think it has nothing to do with him not wanting to "inconvenience his wife". Remember the long pauses during the questioning, after he knew he was caught?

He was thinking, and was thinking FAST. To us it seemed like an eternity, but his mind was racing! Have you ever played Chess? You need to anticipate your opponent's next moves, and play in your head all the possibilities/consequences, not just the one next move.

After all those minutes of thinking, he came up with "trying to minimize the impact on his wife" then added "and the military". Think about it. Think why he wanted to do that? He is a military man, and like I said from the very beginning, it is all about strategy moves.

He knew right there and then, that there was no way out. Survival mode kicked in. It was inevitable, he was going to jail. No question about that. He accepted defeat at that moment, but now he needed to think (and think fast) what was the best move to control the damage.

Denying at that point was a non-option. Best thing would be to confess, in hopes the judge would take that into consideration on his behalf, and perhaps get a lesser sentence, maybe with good conduct he was thinking of 15 years?

Next, he had to think how he could protect his assets for when he gets out of jail. This is not your regular guy, he is intelligent and he is trained to think ahead of time. He was already projecting into the future.

So, what better way to protect your assets than trying to minimize the damage to his own home? He knew LE was going to find the 'evidence' sooner or later, better to tell them where to look, and minimize aggravating the one person he needed on his side.

With regards to how much 'knowledge' she has and to what type of relationship they have, you made VERY good points, otto, in your second & third paragraphs! Put the pieces of the puzzle together :)

:waitasec: Am still trying to figure out when it was that he thought of the huge possibility one or more of his victims could sue. Not sure if he thought of that during those long pauses, or maybe days later, or perhaps it was 'someone' else who thought of that first, and brought it to his attention.

SO...his assets will be there waiting for when he gets out of jail (maybe earlier with good behavior), ALL intact and well protected (pension, new house and whatever else was in his name: maybe investments? stocks? safety deposit contents? GIC's?, who knows?). Good strategy? for sure, though I guess like in Chess, there is always the chance of things not going according to plan

About the long pauses, we can even see him nodding, tilting his head a bit, moving in his chair, etc., thinking...thinking, and not bashing himself for being so stoop.. for driving the Pathfinder to the LE station and wearing those boots.....he knew that was not time for that...there would be plenty of time for regrets later.
ALL JMHO. :cow:
 
... there should certainly be some sort of screening for a weakness like that in the mlitary.
If you are referring to the 'weakness' the MacLean article is talking about, then obviiously the BEST screening would be a woman. Who better than a woman to "identify atypical arousal patterns"
oh wait, right, someone is going to come and tell us that he only started these atypical behaviors in his forties, and never before he 'played out' his fantasies, LOL

If you are referring to 'weakness' for you know who, well, I already explained in above post how I feel about his real reasons behind that 'strategic' move.
Without that criminal record, the most reliable way to detect a sexual sadist is “phallometric” testing: ........
measuring his reaction to various photographs and videos. “While this test may help to identify atypical arousal patterns, ”
respectfully snipped by me
http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/10/12/screening-for-psychopaths/
MOO
 
http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/12/15/most-likely-to-have-your-home-broken-into/
"Belleville, Ontario

The lakeside city of Belleville, Ont.—population 50,000—had the highest rate of breaking and entering in Canada for 2010. Given the horrid crime spree of theft and murder by former colonel Russell Williams, one might suspect the city experienced a statistical blip. But while Williams committed more than 80 break-ins, only two of them were handled by Belleville police. That means break-ins were already a severe problem. To tackle such crimes, police created the Project Recover task force late last year, says Sgt. Julie Forestell. Since then, she says, the rate of break-ins has declined. “We’ve done something right,” she says. “The response was appropriate and ongoing.” The evidence of that, of course, will be in 2011’s statistics.

Worst cities (% higher than national average)

1. Belleville, Ont. (102%)"
 
I'm finally coming to the end of Camouflaged Killer. The first part of the book is quite horrifying as it is a detailed description of what Williams did to his victims. The second part seems to copy Appleby's book (too much the same). The third part is about the court hearings. In the first part, it's hard not to have strong negative feelings towards Williams, but by the third part, reading about life behind bars, it's hard not to feel sorry for him. I actually have wondered whether his brother, a doctor, has looked into whether the medications that Williams took for his back injury may have contributed to him going to the dark side. I think that life behind bars would be so much more difficult for someone like Williams - someone that loved to fly, someone with so much to lose - than for people that had a life of crime.

I wonder how long he knew that he was sociopathic. He's very intelligent and well educated, so he may have known for a very long time ... maybe he got to a point where he believed that he was invincible, superior and could get away with anything. At the same time, he was beginning to be careless, which is sometimes done by people that subconsciously want to be stopped.
 
http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/12/15/most-likely-to-have-your-home-broken-into/
"Belleville, Ontario

The lakeside city of Belleville, Ont.—population 50,000—had the highest rate of breaking and entering in Canada for 2010. Given the horrid crime spree of theft and murder by former colonel Russell Williams, one might suspect the city experienced a statistical blip. But while Williams committed more than 80 break-ins, only two of them were handled by Belleville police. That means break-ins were already a severe problem. To tackle such crimes, police created the Project Recover task force late last year, says Sgt. Julie Forestell. Since then, she says, the rate of break-ins has declined. “We’ve done something right,” she says. “The response was appropriate and ongoing.” The evidence of that, of course, will be in 2011’s statistics.

Worst cities (% higher than national average)

1. Belleville, Ont. (102%)"

Another factor to consider is that the area has a lot of cottages, so most likely many places are only occupied part of the year. That would contribute to the break ins ... opportunity.
 
RSBM

:clap: otto, glad to see you are starting to question the same things many of us have been asking for a long time, now that you are leaning more details about the case,

It just doesn't make any sense that he only started being 'weird' at 44!!

As for 'the escalating behaviour' hmmmm, I personally still have my doubts that there are only 4 victims.
It makes much more sense that when he was promoted, and felt he was no longer going to be traveling and moving that much, that he thought it was safe to use a computer to keep records, and videos/pictures files.

He didn't seem to mind the second victim to connect dots that there was a perv taking photographs. His excuse of having to kill Jessica because otherwise, she will connect the dots because she knew he was taking pictures is just that, an excuse. (IMO)

IMHO, he didn't kill the Tweed victims for the simple fact that he lived there. He didn't want to live in an area where a murder had been committed.
Same thing in Orleans, Ottawa, he would have never committed a murder there, only burglarized and stole lingerie/trophies.

So IMO, people are seeing this the wrong way....it was actually 'safer' for women to live in close proximity to his areas of residence. He would never kill anyone around his home(s). Who wants to live close to where a murder has been committed? He is a neat freak, he wanted his home and area to be 'clean'.

The murders were committed FAR AWAY from where he lived. Maybe he took a big risk with Jessica, because she didn't live that far away, but he knew it was a different LE force who were going to investigate (the Belleville LE), not the OPP.

So, IMHO there could be other murdered victims in other parts of the country. We know he burned something (lingerie? clothing? photographs? notes?) somewhere around or beyond the Ottawa Greenbelt.
How can we be sure there are no other murders committed by him, but he was diligent burning and destroying all the evidence?

That is just my own opinion, because that could explain a lot of things.
Like Judge Judy says: "If it doesn't make sense, then it is not true"

As for the wife, I guess we have already expressed our opinions, l o n g before we were told we cannot talk about it.

Firstly, I read a few excerpts from that Google link of the Camoflouged Killer Book, and, am absolutely horrified that someone was even allowed to put into such graphic details the final hours of Jessica Lloyd's life. :furious:

Any of RW's family or friends who may be in denial should just have a quick gander at that.

Secondly, this point you make here Hazel about the geographical territories under which LE operated is a great one.

RW would have been greatly experienced in the administrative challenges with jurisdictions in LE (and the military). This is one reason why I believe there are more murders and rapes for which he is responsible.

The most obvious one is Kathleen MacVicar's murder. Her body was found right on the line between the Base and Trenton, and her murder has never been solved.

I am waiting for the announcement from LE one day, when they have solved more cases linking RW to more victims. I do wonder if this will be the case?




.
 
Firstly, I read a few excerpts from that Google link of the Camoflouged Killer Book, and, am absolutely horrified that someone was even allowed to put into such graphic details the final hours of Jessica Lloyd's life. :furious:

Any of RW's family or friends who may be in denial should just have a quick gander at that.

Secondly, this point you make here Hazel about the geographical territories under which LE operated is a great one.

RW would have been greatly experienced in the administrative challenges with jurisdictions in LE (and the military). This is one reason why I believe there are more murders and rapes for which he is responsible.

The most obvious one is Kathleen MacVicar's murder. Her body was found right on the line between the Base and Trenton, and her murder has never been solved.

I am waiting for the announcement from LE one day, when they have solved more cases linking RW to more victims. I do wonder if this will be the case?
.

I always thought by now we would be hearing of more murders committed by RW. Having just finished 'Camouflaged Killer" I now DO NOT believe he committed any more murders. I do not believe he had anything to do with the MacVicar murder back in 2001. This happened too early to fall into his escalating behaviour. He would not have murdered then went back to panty raids IMO.
RW started out with an underwear fetish of young girls, breaking into homes and stealing underwear, then progressing and trying them on and posing for pics. He progressed further by stripping down in the yard of a home, breaking in while one was in the shower and stealing underwear. His behaviour was escalating and he moved onto raping Jane Doe. I believe this was his first rape, he was not prepared to tie her up as he used things found in her home to do so. His next rape he came prepared with wire to tie her up. He showed his power and control and both his rape victims did not put up much of a fight. From there he moved onto rape/murder as his next victim MFC put up a great fight, he was losing control and murdered her. He needed more and went on and raped and murdered JL. Thank God he was caught at this point as he most definately would have continued.

I also believe that RW has hostility towards woman (I wish we knew more about his upbringing with his mom) and also has a personality disorder of some kind. When he was younger, when his parents split up and his mom remarried, he changed his name to his step dads last name and they left the area where the "swingers" got together. The book talks about how they never spoke of those times and moved on with new names, hiding that part of their life. He later, after college changed his name once again after his mom left his step dad. It was also at this time that he had a falling out with mom. I get this feeling that he has always had 2 sides to himself....The RW that everyone knows and the other side is one that is hidden and not spoken about. He grew up this way and continued this as an adult...RW the Colonel and RW the murderer.
 
I always thought by now we would be hearing of more murders committed by RW. Having just finished 'Camouflaged Killer" I now DO NOT believe he committed any more murders. I do not believe he had anything to do with the MacVicar murder back in 2001. This happened too early to fall into his escalating behaviour. He would not have murdered then went back to panty raids IMO.
RW started out with an underwear fetish of young girls, breaking into homes and stealing underwear, then progressing and trying them on and posing for pics. He progressed further by stripping down in the yard of a home, breaking in while one was in the shower and stealing underwear. His behaviour was escalating and he moved onto raping Jane Doe. I believe this was his first rape, he was not prepared to tie her up as he used things found in her home to do so. His next rape he came prepared with wire to tie her up. He showed his power and control and both his rape victims did not put up much of a fight. From there he moved onto rape/murder as his next victim MFC put up a great fight, he was losing control and murdered her. He needed more and went on and raped and murdered JL. Thank God he was caught at this point as he most definately would have continued.

I also believe that RW has hostility towards woman (I wish we knew more about his upbringing with his mom) and also has a personality disorder of some kind. When he was younger, when his parents split up and his mom remarried, he changed his name to his step dads last name and they left the area where the "swingers" got together. The book talks about how they never spoke of those times and moved on with new names, hiding that part of their life. He later, after college changed his name once again after his mom left his step dad. It was also at this time that he had a falling out with mom. I get this feeling that he has always had 2 sides to himself....The RW that everyone knows and the other side is one that is hidden and not spoken about. He grew up this way and continued this as an adult...RW the Colonel and RW the murderer.

Everything you say makes complete sense and follows along the "typical" escalation pattern of deviants. It is possible that what has been released is the extent of his crime.

Unfortunately, I just don't think RW followed a "typical" pattern. He is a complete anamoly, and it's possible he was able to supress his evil urges by tiding himself over with panty raids etc., but that would imply some sort of conscience, which seems doubtful at this point.

He definitely plotted against and stalked other victims, there is no doubt.

I don't know if the entire truth of the depths of depravity will ever come out, and I don't know if we are prepared to handle it anyway. But, some sort of closure for other victims and their families is certainly necessary, and I hope they get it one way or the other. :(







.
 
Unfortunately, I just don't think RW followed a "typical" pattern. He is a complete anamoly, and it's possible he was able to supress his evil urges by tiding himself over with panty raids etc., but that would imply some sort of conscience, which seems doubtful at this point.

He definitely plotted against and stalked other victims, there is no doubt.

I don't know if the entire truth of the depths of depravity will ever come out, and I don't know if we are prepared to handle it anyway. But, some sort of closure for other victims and their families is certainly necessary, and I hope they get it one way or the other. :(

If we are to benefit from RW's incarceration, it would do the medical profession, law enforcement and the general public an awful lot of good if he could be psychoanalyzed and dissected during his life sentence.
 
The final section of Camouflaged Killer is an examination of his psychological make up - several experts were consulted (provided complete documents). He is not a psychopath, but he is a sexual sadist. There is a suggestion that he explored some of this with girlfriends or wife earlier on. We have the Japanese girlfriend from University that cut off all contact with him and refuses to comment and he had no sex life with his wife.
 

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