Casey & Family Psychological Profile #9

[Hollys G-mom]

How about she knows that all of us are out here observing her every little movement, facial expression, and outfit in order to pick her apart. Under those circumstances I too would probably move my eyes weirdly. Why don't you pretend for 1 day what it would be like for thousands of people to watch you and your every word and movement to use against you and see how "normally" you act. I mean it! Try it! Not to mention, have you listened to Baez talk? He's very hard to follow with all the Ummms and what not, not to mention she has no real idea of what he is really saying to the judge. Not in total. So of course she's bored and terrified she might make a move that will erroneously give credence to the prosecution; yawn (very normal response to being in court with all day, especially with Baez), show any emotions at all (happy= guilty without remorse, sad=guilty but angry, angry= guilty but ... ect) No matter how she acts, or what she wears, or what she does AND doesn't do everyone makes it equal to guilt.

 

[OneLostGrl]

OK, this is the first time I have watched Casey's "eye movements", but that can't be normal ? What's going on with her eyes ?

In the video where everyone sees freaky eye movements it's MO that she was simply watching (with her eyes) the lawyers and the judge talking. They had all just gone up to the bench and were discussing who knows what. She stopped the eye movements after they stopped speaking.

 

[OneLostGrl]

How about she knows that all of us are out here observing her every little movement, facial expression, and outfit in order to pick her apart. Under those circumstances I too would probably move my eyes weirdly. Why don't you pretend for 1 day what it would be like for thousands of people to watch you and your every word and movement to use against you and see how "normally" you act. I mean it! Try it! Not to mention, have you listened to Baez talk? He's very hard to follow with all the Ummms and what not, not to mention she has no real idea of what he is really saying to the judge. Not in total. So of course she's bored and terrified she might make a move that will erroneously give credence to the prosecution; yawn (very normal response to being in court with all day, especially with Baez), show any emotions at all (happy= guilty without remorse, sad=guilty but angry, angry= guilty but ... ect) No matter how she acts, or what she wears, or what she does AND doesn't do everyone makes it equal to guilt.

I agree- to a point. I think a lot of Casey's little things (fixing hair, hand rubbing, shirt fixing etc) are probably due to nerves, feeling like everyone is watching her.

 

[MissJames]

How about she knows that all of us are out here observing her every little movement, facial expression, and outfit in order to pick her apart. Under those circumstances I too would probably move my eyes weirdly. Why don't you pretend for 1 day what it would be like for thousands of people to watch you and your every word and movement to use against you and see how "normally" you act. I mean it! Try it! Not to mention, have you listened to Baez talk? He's very hard to follow with all the Ummms and what not, not to mention she has no real idea of what he is really saying to the judge. Not in total. So of course she's bored and terrified she might make a move that will erroneously give credence to the prosecution; yawn (very normal response to being in court with all day, especially with Baez), show any emotions at all (happy= guilty without remorse, sad=guilty but angry, angry= guilty but ... ect) No matter how she acts, or what she wears, or what she does AND doesn't do everyone makes it equal to guilt.

When your child goes missing for 31 days and you hide the fact,lie to LE ,get decomp in your car and your child turns up dead with duct tape over her mouth......people watching you is gonna happen. Where ever you stand on her guilt or innocence ,you have to admit...she invited the attention by her actions.

 

[LCoastMom]

I understand that many people from less than perfect homes have improved upon themselves by making a choice to not be like their parents. But, IMO, many more people are deeply affected by their dysfunctional upbringing and even repeat the cycle, some do over and over again. Many of those same people probably said to themselves, I will never be like my mother/father...yet they end up being very much like them.

I think a lot of us here can see a connect between Cindy and George's dysfunction and Casey's. It's not that it adds up to an excuse for murder, it doesn't. But, the connect is worth discussing and debate. Like another poster said, "Casey is responsible for Caylee's death, but Cindy and George are responsible for Casey". They are her parents and ALL parents are responsible for their children and the way they are raised. Casey didn't come to be without any help or assistance.

I have a real problem holding C & G responsible for most of KC's actions. At what point are parents no longer responsible for the behavior of their adult child? Which behaviors are they responsible for?

If they are aware of some of KC's lies, does that make them responsible for all of her lies? Following up on KC's many "mis-truths" would have been a full time job for anyone (just ask OCSD)! As her parents, is that one of their responsibilities?

We don't know what kind of parents C & G were, we only see what they have become since 7/16/08. I think it's pretty easy to assume they were not acting in a way that says they felt they were responsible for KC's behavior at the time of Caylee's disappearance. But I have a hard time saying they were treating her like she was responsible either. That, IMO has turned into a huge problem in their house, no one is stepping up to the plate and accepting responsibility for Caylee!!

Does anyone see the possibility that G & C were so busy tiptoeing around KC, just to keep the peace in the family that responsibility for Caylee became overlooked? So many gparents on the board here have said no way in he!! would their child be able to keep their gchild from them for 31 days. But that isn't reality. Reality is if your your adult child decides they don't want you around their child, you don't have a leg to stand on. Unless you are able to prove the parent is abusive, negligent or incapacitated. All of which takes time and money, with no guarantee at the end that the gparent will be successful.

It seems to me the only way to save Caylee, would have been if C & G would have been willing to go this route. A councilor had even advised that they go forward with seeking custody of Caylee and pushing KC out of the nest, but Cindy wasn't willing to do it. This comes back to acting responsibly. Since it was revealed that Cindy had been advised by a mental health specialist to go after custody of Caylee and she refused, does this make Cindy responsible for Caylee's death, because she didn't do anything to prevent it? Is the law such in FL (like it is in CA) that if councilors, teachers etc are made aware of an abusive situation or if they suspect a child is living in such a situation, they are mandated to report the suspected abuse/neglect to CPS?

Does this now bring us to the councilor Cindy went to? Would she advise Cindy to take custody of Caylee for a situation that fell short of abuse or neglect? Does the councilor now come into the "pot of responsibility" for not reporting whatever Cindy revealed that made her suggest she should have legal custody of Caylee?

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[doogiesgirl]

She has been thoroughly evaluated by two psychiatrists, in jail.


Just checked it out. Eye movements appear within normal limits, to me.

She looks at the lady sitting to her left, then at the document in front of her, which she folds into thirds.

Then, she focuses on JB, for the most part. She intersperses this attention with fleeting looks around the room. Thn, she re-focuses on JB.

IMHO.. she's trying to keep her attention on JB, but she's bored silly. So, she looks around. I think she wants to be outta there, and back in her cell. She's restless, but trying to behave.

There's no nystagmus, or anything that would be identified as a neurological deficit, IMHO.

I hear ya Brini but I know my experience with doctors. My surgeons are the only docs that I can say have done their job well. I've seen too many other docs just blow people and issues off as nothing. So the fact that she has been seen doesn't really put it to rest for me. KWIM? I guess it all depends on your own personal experiences. JMO

 

[texaslb218]

OK, this is the first time I have watched Casey's "eye movements", but that can't be normal ? What's going on with her eyes ?

IMO
Casey is HYPER vigilant. I'll let a psyh here pick this up, but Casey doesn't focus, but constantly scans and processes. This is part of her chameleon like personality where she tries to become what she thinks other people want to be around. I'm not sure she can control it. This eye movement is also an indicator of some drugs, but I don't believe this is the case with KC.

Some of you may have a friend that you have noticed is always checking around so much that you feel like they are not "there" with you. There is a continuum of intensity that hypers have that makes it noticeable.

JMO

 

[autumnlover]

BBM. Great post WBG ! You raised so many good points.

This "family" is not an easy study for me. I feel George has had anger issues for many years and this may have played a part in the whole Cindy/Casey enablement issue. I don't know any of this for certain, it's just a feeling I get...George is not the quiet, nice guy he tries to portray, IMO.

Why is Casey the one that was enabled and not Lee ? Another geat question that I would love to know the answer to. Is it possible that Casey played into the role more than Lee ? Maybe their personalities were such that Lee wanted to be independent, we know Casey did not want the responsibility that came along with that freedom. Since Lee was a boy maybe they, Cindy and George, raised him to be "tougher" and spoiled Casey since she was a "girl". Many parents raise their children differantly depending on the sex of the child.

Everything you wrote makes sense to me and I agree with you that behavior is largely shaped by "circumstances"...again, I enjoyed your post !

Bolded by me. That's a very interesting question. I wonder if GA and CA gave into KC because she was so strong they just couldn't fight her and win. I have a grown niece who displays the characteristics of borderline personality disorder and my sister and brother-in-law do everything to cover it up. More importantly, they enable her and give into her time and time again because not to do so causes the most unbelievable scenes and disturbances to the family it would send chills up and down your spine. She is in treatment, but treatment can only do so much. They have to give into her to keep the peace or none of them can live. It's just that simple. She has them wrapped around each one of her fingers and it's truly sickening to watch. I wonder if that's been the dynamic in the A. household.

 

[LCoastMom]

I haven't read this thread yet. Just trying to find the correct place to post this. Tried going to the body language thread but it's locked now. Anyway, I am watching this court hearing and around the 2:00 mark the camera goes close up on KC. I am shocked at the way her eyes are constantly moving. Something is wrong with her. Don't know if it's an eye problem or a sign of mental illness or maybe brain damage but it is creepy. She seriously needs to be seen by doctors. I am beginning to wonder if maybe she is seriously mentally ill. Off to do google searches to see if I can find any info. Just had to share this with you guys. Where is OLG? She is so knowledgeable about this stuff. JMO

YouTube - Motions Hearing 5 28 09 Part 7

Around the 2:00 minute mark, watch KC's eyes.

DG that was a great find IMO, KC is struggling to stay awake! Watch her eye lids. They keep dipping down, then she pops them back up. If you watch her motions, she is just about to turn into a bobble head. Like a toddler sitting in their high chair at meal time. Eventually gravity wins and they end up using the plate of food as a pillow!

I tried counting the number of ummms, ahs and uhs. I couldn't do it, I can say at 1 minute 45 seconds he had not completed 2 whole sentences. Talking about a lie detector and fishing venture. Jesse and Amy. I ahh, umm, already uh, have ah, forgotten umm where ah, he umm, ahh, was umm going omm, with umm, ahh, what uh, he umm, ah started umm the uh... He could knock out an insomniac in under 10 minutes!

The prosicuters looked like they were getting a kick out of JB, they were no longer sitting up straight, they were kicking back and letting their lunch settle!!

~~~~:Banane39:~~~~:Banane39:~~~~:Banane39: ~~~~:Banane39:~~~~:Banane39:~~~~

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[kageykaren]

I was watching CA's depo today too and noticed something new. At around the 4:35 mark or so JM asks CA a question about KC having opportunity to find out about ZG looking at a Sawgrass apt but he includes that on the 17th or after, two days after having an argument with CA she could have gone to Sawgrass. The gist of his question was not about the argument but that's what CA hones in on, getting upset about him saying that, completely ignoring what he was really asking about. To me, for CA to only hear that portion and to get so upset about it tells me it more than likely happened. I mean if it wasn't true why pick up on that only and get so upset about it? It's just very telling to me. CA wanting to project the "no family problems", or should I say 'the perfect mother' appearance at all costs. It reminded me of when we heard that JG said LA told him the fight was so bad that CA had her hands around KC's neck and then in the FBI interview CA tells the G-men that she would never put her hands on her child, that she talks to KC when there is a problem!! LOL yeah right....pull my leg some more CA. She thinks we really buy this stuff she says......can anyone say "delusional". JMO

YouTube - Cindy Anthony Deposition Part 16 (END)

My fave during this interview, "Go there Mr. Morgan, just go there" CA very determend to want to call the attorneys bluff. It appears CA has already planned her response to the question we all have been wondering, "Was there or wasn't there a fight.?" CA was far to eager to go there with MR. Morgan. I can't wait to hear CA's response when faced with this question again.

 

[Brini]

I hear ya Brini but I know my experience with doctors. My surgeons are the only docs that I can say have done their job well. I've seen too many other docs just blow people and issues off as nothing. So the fact that she has been seen doesn't really put it to rest for me. KWIM? I guess it all depends on your own personal experiences. JMO

Yeah.. I think EVERYTHING does. xoxoxoxoxxox

 

[Brini]

I agree- to a point. I think a lot of Casey's little things (fixing hair, hand rubbing, shirt fixing etc) are probably due to nerves, feeling like everyone is watching her.

Some of it (hair fluffing, palm flashing) is a flirting mechanism.

 

[Brini]

IMO
Casey is HYPER vigilant. I'll let a psyh here pick this up, but Casey doesn't focus, but constantly scans and processes. This is part of her chameleon like personality where she tries to become what she thinks other people want to be around. I'm not sure she can control it. This eye movement is also an indicator of some drugs, but I don't believe this is the case with KC.

Some of you may have a friend that you have noticed is always checking around so much that you feel like they are not "there" with you. There is a continuum of intensity that hypers have that makes it noticeable.

JMO

Yeah. The kind of person who pretends to be listening, in a conversation. They are really checking out the room.

 

[Searchfortruth]

I have a real problem holding C & G responsible for most of KC's actions. At what point are parents no longer responsible for the behavior of their adult child? Which behaviors are they responsible for?

If they are aware of some of KC's lies, does that make them responsible for all of her lies? Following up on KC's many "mis-truths" would have been a full time job for anyone (just ask OCSD)! As her parents, is that one of their responsibilities?

We don't know what kind of parents C & G were, we only see what they have become since 7/16/08. I think it's pretty easy to assume they were not acting in a way that says they felt they were responsible for KC's behavior at the time of Caylee's disappearance. But I have a hard time saying they were treating her like she was responsible either. That, IMO has turned into a huge problem in their house, no one is stepping up to the plate and accepting responsibility for Caylee!!

Does anyone see the possibility that G & C were so busy tiptoeing around KC, just to keep the peace in the family that responsibility for Caylee became overlooked? So many gparents on the board here have said no way in he!! would their child be able to keep their gchild from them for 31 days. But that isn't reality. Reality is if your your adult child decides they don't want you around their child, you don't have a leg to stand on. Unless you are able to prove the parent is abusive, negligent or incapacitated. All of which takes time and money, with no guarantee at the end that the gparent will be successful.

It seems to me the only way to save Caylee, would have been if C & G would have been willing to go this route. A councilor had even advised that they go forward with seeking custody of Caylee and pushing KC out of the nest, but Cindy wasn't willing to do it. This comes back to acting responsibly. Since it was revealed that Cindy had been advised by a mental health specialist to go after custody of Caylee and she refused, does this make Cindy responsible for Caylee's death, because she didn't do anything to prevent it? Is the law such in FL (like it is in CA) that if councilors, teachers etc are made aware of an abusive situation or if they suspect a child is living in such a situation, they are mandated to report the suspected abuse/neglect to CPS?

Does this now bring us to the councilor Cindy went to? Would she advise Cindy to take custody of Caylee for a situation that fell short of abuse or neglect? Does the councilor now come into the "pot of responsibility" for not reporting whatever Cindy revealed that made her suggest she should have legal custody of Caylee?

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BBM.

I would never say that Cindy and George are responsible for all of Casey's actions or behaviors. They surely aren't responsible for Caylee's murder, but I do believe that they are responsible for a "percentage" of Casey's personality...who she grew up to be. How much they contributed, I don't know.

As for the question of the counselor's responsibility, I have no idea if Cindy was totally truthful with this counselor, nor do I know what Cindy revealed to this counselor. I assume, but don't know, that Cindy went to the counselor one time and never went back. Shirley said Cindy couldn't do what this counselor suggested, kick Casey out. I don't think this was a long therapeutic relationship.

The following paragraph discusses mandatory reporting in FL...

Chapter 39 of the Florida Statutes (F.S.) mandates that any person who knows, or has reasonable cause to suspect, that a child is abused, neglected, or abandoned by a parent, legal custodian, caregiver, or other person responsible for the child's welfare shall immediately report such knowledge or suspicion to the Florida Abuse Hotline of the Department of Children and Families.

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache...rting+florida+nurses&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

 

[MAMABEAR]

My fave during this interview, "Go there Mr. Morgan, just go there" CA very determend to want to call the attorneys bluff. It appears CA has already planned her response to the question we all have been wondering, "Was there or wasn't there a fight.?" CA was far to eager to go there with MR. Morgan. I can't wait to hear CA's response when faced with this question again.

This is something I hope I live to see. I have a feeling that CA will lie on the stand just like she has always lied. Judge S. said that truth and KC are strangers and I think CA is the same. What's gonna pizz me off is if they let her git away with it. I really can't afford to buy another T.V. if I throw a lamp thru this one.

 

[kageykaren]

Ya know Mamabear, I see a sparkle in Judge Stricklands eyes at times when he is addressing the attorneys. I feel he is holding back to make sure this case gets to trial and much as it bothers me all our legal eagles seem to think this. After watching GA beg JS to not release the autopsy report and getting no eye contact from JS while he is crying out his concerns I have some faith in this judge. I don't think JS misses much in the courtroom and hopefully that day he saw GA true colors as GA rapidly left the room like he was told, "You don't know the rules to this game your wanting to engage me in so I'll listen & explain." "You don't know how to play, go home"

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

She has been thoroughly evaluated by two psychiatrists, in jail.


Just checked it out. Eye movements appear within normal limits, to me.

She looks at the lady sitting to her left, then at the document in front of her, which she folds into thirds.

Then, she focuses on JB, for the most part. She intersperses this attention with fleeting looks around the room. Thn, she re-focuses on JB.

IMHO.. she's trying to keep her attention on JB, but she's bored silly. So, she looks around. I think she wants to be outta there, and back in her cell. She's restless, but trying to behave.

There's no nystagmus, or anything that would be identified as a neurological deficit, IMHO.

I agree, I think she is bored out of her mind, hasn't really "heard" a word that has been said and is doing everything possible to keep her head elevated in an upright position and not falling asleep!

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

I have a real problem holding C & G responsible for most of KC's actions. At what point are parents no longer responsible for the behavior of their adult child? Which behaviors are they responsible for?

If they are aware of some of KC's lies, does that make them responsible for all of her lies? Following up on KC's many "mis-truths" would have been a full time job for anyone (just ask OCSD)! As her parents, is that one of their responsibilities?

We don't know what kind of parents C & G were, we only see what they have become since 7/16/08. I think it's pretty easy to assume they were not acting in a way that says they felt they were responsible for KC's behavior at the time of Caylee's disappearance. But I have a hard time saying they were treating her like she was responsible either. That, IMO has turned into a huge problem in their house, no one is stepping up to the plate and accepting responsibility for Caylee!!

Does anyone see the possibility that G & C were so busy tiptoeing around KC, just to keep the peace in the family that responsibility for Caylee became overlooked? So many gparents on the board here have said no way in he!! would their child be able to keep their gchild from them for 31 days. But that isn't reality. Reality is if your your adult child decides they don't want you around their child, you don't have a leg to stand on. Unless you are able to prove the parent is abusive, negligent or incapacitated. All of which takes time and money, with no guarantee at the end that the gparent will be successful.

It seems to me the only way to save Caylee, would have been if C & G would have been willing to go this route. A councilor had even advised that they go forward with seeking custody of Caylee and pushing KC out of the nest, but Cindy wasn't willing to do it. This comes back to acting responsibly. Since it was revealed that Cindy had been advised by a mental health specialist to go after custody of Caylee and she refused, does this make Cindy responsible for Caylee's death, because she didn't do anything to prevent it? Is the law such in FL (like it is in CA) that if councilors, teachers etc are made aware of an abusive situation or if they suspect a child is living in such a situation, they are mandated to report the suspected abuse/neglect to CPS?

Does this now bring us to the councilor Cindy went to? Would she advise Cindy to take custody of Caylee for a situation that fell short of abuse or neglect? Does the councilor now come into the "pot of responsibility" for not reporting whatever Cindy revealed that made her suggest she should have legal custody of Caylee?

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But do we know CA sought professional help as in a counselor or is this a CA mis-truth. No counselor has come forward, not that one would, as it would be confidential information but with as much stuff has come out, this little tid bit seems to me would have oozed out into the biosphere somehow. So with all of the other information from the A camp, I putting that info into the Don't Believe a Word of IT, Until Proven File.

 

[Brini]

But do we know CA sought professional help as in a counselor or is this a CA mis-truth. No counselor has come forward, not that one would, as it would be confidential information but with as much stuff has come out, this little tid bit seems to me would have oozed out into the biosphere somehow. So with all of the other information from the A camp, I putting that info into the Don't Believe a Word of IT, Until Proven File.

I think she did, but she only saw him/her once.

She didn't realize how badly implementing his/her recommendations would backfire all over the place.

 

[kageykaren]

Many of us have observed all of the A's behaviors since the reported crime against Caylee. We have used the term, "Their sense of entitlement" over and over again to describe their grandios statements & actions. While visiting a favorite site called, www.LoveFraud.com I clicked on the side bar "Female sociopaths" and found a quote by Liane, Leedom M.D. article called, "Sociopaths, Cluster B personality disorders & psychopathty",dated 2/6/09 for referencing. Although anti social are obeservable actions like lying, stealing and assault. There are personality traites that cause anti-social behavior. It should come as no surprise that people who have a sense of entitlement, over rate their own greatness and have poor self control are more likely to hurt others and show pervasive anti-social behaviors." As we continue to describe the A's and their entitlement issues we should remember how sinister this personality traite is. It appears this trait is embeded in all of the A's. It reminds me of , Who hit who first in this family," analogy. Great site for those who need an understanding of this sociopath diagnosis that causes such a void in human caring in these patients. The site also address the current works of helping the legal system recognize this mental illness in the court rooms so that children aren't caught in the crossfire of the anti-social sociopaths behaviors. Enjoy this imformative site. After a read I think people may agree that KC social ramblings, icons, and thumbnails did not come from just a place in her mind to relate to her peers innocently but from a place in her mind to mimick others lives with her grandiosty.