Casey- Jesse Grund

[Melly53]

I think the only ones who have come up with the dx of sociopath is the talking heads. They never interviewed her. Very unprofessional in my mind. I am waiting to see, if ever, the psychological or psychiatric analysis by someone who has actually interviewed her comes to light.

After all I don't think there is any way to label someone a sociopath with knowing a great deal about them. Granted she lied, many people , small white lies ,big lies.. lots of shades of grey in there. The motive is always muddy without real close observation. We only know what the press says, what Nancy Grace says. I don't think I consider them experts.

I think all her old friends commented on how she had changes after meeting her "new friends." They might have felt that way because she shut them out or they may have really noticed a big change in her behavior.

I am sure some of this will come out at trial. I hope they don't delay it for 3 or 4 years. I want to know ASAP.

I don't put a lot of faith into what her old friends are saying about the recent changes in KC and here's why. IIRC the pictures of her in the car, pants pulled down and such, were taken WITH her old friends. And then there are the "puking over the toliet", "beer pong" party, "anything but clothes" party and the other numerous party pictures as evidence of some of her past behavior. Many of those "old" friends were there right along with KC. Obviously KC liked to get drunk and party and has for a while. I think they just don't want to publicly admit that they were a part of all that. IIRC more than one of her "old" friends has admitted that KC lied so that is nothing new to them either.

"Old" friend KioMarie was certainly aware of KC's behavior. Ryan is an "old" friend too but by his own admission he will not be a good character witness for the defense because of what he knows about KC. The stealing is obviously nothing new either. I guess I am just curious as to who these "old" friends are that are saying KC has changed. Cindy saying that is what KC's old friends are saying doesn't carry a whole lot of weight with me at this point because that would mean admitting that KC has been like this her whole life. That is never going to happen IMO. I think it is easier for CA to blame the new friends for her daughter's behavior rather than to publicly admit that KC has always been the way she is now.

If I am not mistaken, according to Ryan's statment to LE even Cindy said that KC was a sociopath so it is not just the talking heads that have labeled KC as such. Those of us who have had or who still have a "diagnosed" sociopath in our lives, recognize the same signs and behaviors in KC. We may not be "professionals" but then I don't believe that any of us are claiming to be such. We draw our conslusions and opinions based on our own life experiences with a sociopath. Personally I believe that KC's psychological test results will prove that we were not wrong about KC being a sociopath but that is just MOO.

 

[ValleyGirl]

Thank you Steelergirl! :blowkiss:

 

[curious_mom]

I don't think Casey changed at all, she just got better as she got older.

Casey, being the baby of the family and a girl, she was probably spoiled rotten and could do no wrong, at 1st. Because of this, she was never taught early on to be responsible for her actions. As she got older, and her parents got wiser, GA & CA probably began to question her actions more & more, and she realized she needed something more if she wanted to continue to get over on her parents. She liked being treated with kid gloves and getting her way, but with age, comes more responsibility, and she wanted no part of this. I think when she got pregnant, her 1st instincts may have been to abort Caylee, but then she realized this could be her new ticket to use against her parents, so that's what she did. After all these years, she had gotten good at her game playing, but she was quickly growing into adulthood, and her parents were probably starting to catch on, but she probably realized that having Caylee would once again put the focus back on her, or off of her, which ever way she needed it to be, so she had Caylee. This worked for awhile, as long as Caylee was this sweet innocent little baby. How could her parents force her to grow up & take responsibility for her life when she was a single mother and had nobody else to turn to? So Caylee became the new focus and as Caylee's mom, Casey also once again became the center of attention. She had her world as she liked it back, by using Caylee as her "weapon of choice". This gave her more time to practice her lying and she began to manipulate everybody else because it worked so well with her parents. She had a free place to live, a free babysitter, and GA & CA were paying her way, as there was no way they would let Caylee go without. What Casey seemed to forget is that one day Caylee would start to grow up, and her plan would start to fail once again.

But Caylee did get older, and was able to start verbalizing her wants, and Casey's wasn't the center of her parents world any longer, Caylee was. Casey's plans and Casey's wants started to fall by the wayside, and she began to look at Caylee as a hinderance, and no longer her weapon. GA & CA were now starting to focus on Caylee's future, and what Caylee would need in the future, and this included starting to insist that Casey grow up & start taking her responsibilities seriously, but Casey wanted what Casey wanted, and that didn't include being held down by a child. She had just begun to enjoy life, she was now old enough to go bar hopping, and anything else she wanted to do, she liked it, and she wasn't about to give that all up and become a full time mommy. Now she needed another new plan, and this had to be a big one. Caylee had now become a big problem to her, instead of a solution, and she needed another way to get GA & CA on her side, but to do this, she now had come up with something extreme, without making herself look bad.

The only thing was, her lies were starting to catch up with her really fast and she was running out of options. The last straw seemed to be the money she stole from her GF, and when the confrontation with CA happened, she knew her game was almost up. She needed something really big to get out of this one. She had always had a plan A that worked, but since she'd never needed to have a plan B, she wasn't prepared, and began to make it up and plan it as she went along. She didn't plan on CA calling the cops, (why would she, CA had always taken up for her before now) and with no plan B in place, she got caught with her hand in the cookie jar. Nothing short of a shady attorney with his dream team in place is going to get her out of this one. She gambled one to many times, and without a back up plan, this time, it's all going to come crashing down on her :bang:

 

[Melly53]

I have a quick question about JG...does anyone know why he 'resigned' or got fired from LE?? I have searched for that answer and have yet to come up with anything? It was obviously a big deal if they let him in the back door (as stated in one of his interviews) to handle the situation?? Any ideas?? TIA!!

Supposedly JG resigned because he decided that he just wasn't cut out to be a street cop and wanted his life to take a different direction. It was supposedly a personal choice of his to resign.

 

[Intermezzo]

A "shot girl" just walks around a club or bar selling shots to the patrons...they normally have about 20 shots lined up on their tray and they try to get you to buy the shots off of them!!

ETA: Not necessarily something I would be proud of...but in her eyes it was a legit jobbie job!!

I doubt Casey even had a bonafide job at Fusian managing anyone or anything.
IMO She gave herself a "role" because of TonE's involvement with Fusian.
I'd like to see a copy of a paycheck.

 

[steelergirl]

Supposedly JG resigned because he decided that he just wasn't cut out to be a street cop and wanted his life to take a different direction. It was supposedly a personal choice of his to resign.

thanks so much Melly! just a case of weird timing I guess cause didn't he resign right before this all broke? just another oddity to add ot this case! Thanks again!! :blowkiss:

 

[tx_Dot]

Yes indeed she was. I've come to wonder that Jesse simply doesn't care that Casey lies to him.

If Jesse is telling the truth, he says he first met Casey when he started working at Universal in Jan/05. Caylee was born Aug9/05 and was full-term. So that's what, a six or seven month pregnancy? Any GP could have saved Jesse the cost of a DNA test!

IMO Jesse knew he wasn't the father without a DNA test, but he just DIDN'T CARE Casey lied to him. But Grunds cared because they didn't want their son to be taken for a ride, and they thought the DNA results would wake up Jesse. So the test comes back and dad says "see, I told you so!" and thinks Jesse will break up the relationship because of Casey's lies. Didn't work. Jesse says "no big deal"... Life goes on, and Casey comes in and out of his life.

I don't know...but I have to say I wondered WHO those tears were for that I saw fall out of his eyes on TV.

Oh, I'm sure Jesse's tears were real (on learning Caylee was deceased), he seems the type......even tho he hasn't seen her since Dec. 07

I just think the few months he was a real part of Caylee's life will be descibed
day-by-day, in order to make the 'book' worth buying...

 

[blupencl]

I have a stupid question. KC made a big deal out of her position as being in control of the Shot Girls and she seemed very proud of this responsibility.

Please don't make fun of me, but what exactly is a shot girl, and what do they do?

TIA :blowkiss:

I have a picture in my head of the bar manager saying, "HERE, Casey. You are in charge of the shot girls" and then walking off hitting himself in the head "Dang I wish she would just SHUT UP!" and "Thank goodness. We can get money out of her for her drinks." Of course I have no idea, it's just what pops in my head when I think about it.

 

[DotsEyes]

Please. She was never a nice person. The only reason JG was even around was because after a one night stand, she told him she was pg with HIS baby and even after it was revealed that he was not, he stuck around like an idiot and his family provided free babysitting to KC could do whatever she pleased.

She was a lying manipulative then and has not changed. The only thing that is different is that she finally finished something she started.

I wonder if KC realizes that she is never getting out. Does anyone know what her next sorority house will be?

 

[wallflower67]

Interesting question Ego.
My guess (admittedly I dont know Casey Anthony or Jesse so its just that.) But it possible that she didnt reveal her true self to him until she couldnt hide it anymore.
Sociopaths have an uncanny abilty to become a'mirror' as such and reflect what people want to see back at themselves.
They feel a need to 'belong' in alot of ways for alot of reasons and can be real chamelions when it suits them.
For awhile.
He wouldnt be the first person to become intimately involved with a schizoid borderline then be stunned when they start engaging in all manner of anti-social 'uncharacteristic' behavior.
Ill bet we have folks right here on this board who could tell us just such stories.
Its not unusual for the sociopath to be the model employee who impresses his bosses and charms his coworkers....until they stop showing up for work embezzle funds and wreck the company car with two hookers in the front seat with them.
Everyone around them is as stunned as Jesse.
It almost like they get bored and have to shoot themselves in the foot and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Same story with personal relationships.
I think this syndrome may be one explanation.

Bolded by me...oh boy, like you would not believe!!! This has happened to me. I thought my h was exagerating about his ex because she seemed so normal at one time. I've seen the home movies when the kids were little and she seemed so loving. I called the police the other night on her for abusing my step-d and destroying her room. So much for "I don't believe in spanking!"

 

[Jolynna]

I don't believe it.

There is a problem with Jesse and IMO it appears recently the Grunds have jumped fence. Makes me wonder why.

Does anyone remember that early on, his father painted the picture that Casey took his son for a ride. He said Casey lied about her pregnancy to everyone including Jesse, and told them she has some sort of tumor, which Jesse initially believed as well (but RG didn’t and set him straight). Then Casey goes on to convince Jesse he is Caylee’s father. Caylee was born in Aug/05 and Jesse says he first met Casey in Jan/05 when they both worked at Universal. The math doesn’t fit.....thus the DNA paternity test which proved Casey lied to Jesse. (But Jesse doesn’t care....)

Both lies are pretty significant IMO and would send most young men running for the hills. But not Jesse.....

And Jesse says he knew this wonderful Casey (who he knows lies) and she just “recently” changed. Huh?

Sociopaths are drawn to needy/easy people like moths to a flame.

Casey knew how to fan Jesse's fires to the point he probably couldn't stand the thought of being without her. So, he rationalized what she did. He bought whatever reason Casey gave, Casey promised to never lie to him again and they stayed together...until Casey got tired of THAT game.

I think Jesse had genuine feelings for Casey and Caylee. But, I think Jesse was in love with the person Casey pretended to be while she was "catching" him. Maybe stayed in contact with Casey hoping the person he loved would reappear.

IMO

 

[Firefly]

She may have not known she was pregnant until it was too late to terminate the pregnancy.

Procrastinator.....it goes with they way she lies. She just makes everything up as it comes up. There is no planning to her madness. That tumor story was ridiculous and with a tumor THAT size, I wonder why she wasn't milking her condition more for sympathy with everyone else. Thank god, JG had his father to set him straight and called it like it is.

I don't believe it.


Does anyone remember that early on, his father painted the picture that Casey took his son for a ride. He said Casey lied about her pregnancy to everyone including Jesse, and told them she has some sort of tumor, which Jesse initially believed as well (but RG didn’t and set him straight). Then Casey goes on to convince Jesse he is Caylee’s father. Caylee was born in Aug/05 and Jesse says he first met Casey in Jan/05 when they both worked at Universal. The math doesn’t fit.....thus the DNA paternity test which proved Casey lied to Jesse. (But Jesse doesn’t care....)

If we know so much about Casey from putting this case together, couldn't we sleuth who she was talking to in Jan of '05 and pinpoint the sperm donor? I doubt the guy who died was really the dad. I figured it was convenient for her to not have another set of parents breathing down her neck. Now if your child died and you knew you had a grandchild our there with YOUR lineage, wouldn't you want contact. Where are these people.

Sorrry, I am always going OT.

Thank God JG got out when he did. In 10 years, I would like to see his views about all this stuff from well-seasoned eyes. Hope he finds true love and has children born of that true love.

 

[Jolynna]

WOW! I think you just explained some people in my life and may have helped me become a little "wiser" in some relationships. (thanks) I am often too gullible and believe what I want to believe about someone and I think that might be part of Jesse's problem.
And yes, I can see somewhere in the depths of Casey's soul (know some will think she is soulless, I don't think anyone is) that possibly she WANTED to be "normal", to have a family, but she just couldn't "hack it".......and like another poster said she "snatched failure from the jaws of victory" or so it seems. It also appears that she preferred risky and exciting over "normal" ( "DULL"?) MOO

I have read that sociopaths need the rush they get from living on the edge. Thus the risky stealing and blatant lies.

I think Casey wanted to be normal. For awhile having a "cute little family" was probably fun. But, when a night on the town was watching television with Jesse, Caylee, and family members, I think Casey got restless fast.

LOTS of people put on false fronts when they first meet someone of the opposite sex they find attractive. Lots of people fall so hard for the initial false front and intense beginning relationship chemistry they miss even the most obvious signs that the "loved one" isn't the person they are pretending to be.

IMO

 

[Firefly]

I have read that sociopaths need the rush they get from living on the edge. Thus the risky stealing and blatant lies.

I think Casey wanted to be normal. For awhile having a "cute little family" was probably fun. But, when a night on the town was watching television with Jesse, Caylee, and family members, I think Casey got restless fast.

LOTS of people put on false fronts when they first meet someone of the opposite sex they find attractive. Lots of people fall so hard for the initial false front and intense beginning relationship chemistry they miss even the most obvious signs that the "loved one" isn't the person they are pretending to be.

IMO

Yes, this false front that you fall in love with sure does cloud the real self.
Then these sociopaths know it won't last long until the edges start to unravel a bit. A narcissistic sociopath that I knew would pull that suave, flirty false front forward when being confronted (or would take a "head 'em up at the pass" approach) about a situation that couldn't be explained. It was all in the way they worded it......sweetly saying...."You don't think I had anything to do with this, do you?" If you were on the weak end of the stick your gut reaction would be to back down and say nooooo.
This person was always lying due to damage control. They only way out when the lies got bad was to walk away....change the scenery, so to speak.

 

[Brini]

I am rather surprised that KC was ever interested in JG in the first place. Nothing against JG but rather he didn't seem to be her "type". He seems quieter, from a reglious family, not flashy...a solid individual. What was the attraction there for KC?

She could manage him. Or, at least thought she could.

Like she manages her lawyer.

 

[Brini]

Procrastinator.....it goes with they way she lies. She just makes everything up as it comes up. There is no planning to her madness. That tumor story was ridiculous and with a tumor THAT size, I wonder why she wasn't milking her condition more for sympathy with everyone else. Thank god, JG had his father to set him straight and called it like it is.




If we know so much about Casey from putting this case together, couldn't we sleuth who she was talking to in Jan of '05 and pinpoint the sperm donor? I doubt the guy who died was really the dad. I figured it was convenient for her to not have another set of parents breathing down her neck. Now if your child died and you knew you had a grandchild our there with YOUR lineage, wouldn't you want contact. Where are these people.

Sorrry, I am always going OT.

Thank God JG got out when he did. In 10 years, I would like to see his views about all this stuff from well-seasoned eyes. Hope he finds true love and has children born of that true love.

Sperm donor doesn't matter. He's been gone since prolly conception. And, he had nothing to do with the crime.

 

[Brini]

Do you think she cared enough about her parents' opinion to pick a guy they'd approve of (altho GA didn't seem too happy about him) or do you think she was hoping for a 'free ride', built in babysitting, money available, and someone she could run around on without him getting wise?

Free ride.

 

[Brini]

If casey really did have some major departure from her behavioral norms than it would seem to me that there has to be have been a catalyst for that, such as: a brain tumor, a sexual assault or a severe hormonal imbalance.

If those who knew her consistently say that she is not the person they knew than surely something caused this change.

She's a sociopath, according to all of the talking-head shrinks.

Sociopathy starts in childhood. Her norms ARE lying and stealing

The person who knew her the longest (Ryan) said she hadn't changed since childhood, and refused to give KC a character reference.

The rest of her friends, except maybe Kiomara, haven't known her that long. She burns friends, and then starts a new social group.

No tumor, no horrible hormonal changes, no sexual assault.

She's a sociopath.

 

[Brini]

I have a quick question about JG...does anyone know why he 'resigned' or got fired from LE?? I have searched for that answer and have yet to come up with anything? It was obviously a big deal if they let him in the back door (as stated in one of his interviews) to handle the situation?? Any ideas?? TIA!!

I read that JG and LE BOTH decided the job wasn't a good fit, for him.

 

[Brini]

I don't put a lot of faith into what her old friends are saying about the recent changes in KC and here's why. IIRC the pictures of her in the car, pants pulled down and such, were taken WITH her old friends. And then there are the "puking over the toliet", "beer pong" party, "anything but clothes" party and the other numerous party pictures as evidence of some of her past behavior. Many of those "old" friends were there right along with KC. Obviously KC liked to get drunk and party and has for a while. I think they just don't want to publicly admit that they were a part of all that. IIRC more than one of her "old" friends has admitted that KC lied so that is nothing new to them either.

"Old" friend KioMarie was certainly aware of KC's behavior. Ryan is an "old" friend too but by his own admission he will not be a good character witness for the defense because of what he knows about KC. The stealing is obviously nothing new either. I guess I am just curious as to who these "old" friends are that are saying KC has changed. Cindy saying that is what KC's old friends are saying doesn't carry a whole lot of weight with me at this point because that would mean admitting that KC has been like this her whole life. That is never going to happen IMO. I think it is easier for CA to blame the new friends for her daughter's behavior rather than to publicly admit that KC has always been the way she is now.

If I am not mistaken, according to Ryan's statment to LE even Cindy said that KC was a sociopath so it is not just the talking heads that have labeled KC as such. Those of us who have had or who still have a "diagnosed" sociopath in our lives, recognize the same signs and behaviors in KC. We may not be "professionals" but then I don't believe that any of us are claiming to be such. We draw our conslusions and opinions based on our own life experiences with a sociopath. Personally I believe that KC's psychological test results will prove that we were not wrong about KC being a sociopath but that is just MOO.

"Old" friend Kiomara said she "got rid of" her virginity, then picked up eight boyfriends.