CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #52

[dlc]

Also, when was the last time ER took Dylan fishing? Growing up fishing all my life, at younger ages around 7-8 I would be excited to go but would quickly grow bored, by the time I was Dylan's age, I did enjoy it and could actually spend hours doing it. As kids get older, their patience grows and fishing is definitely an activity that requires patience. Of course your point is great too and thinking back to the Christmas Video, for some reason he chose to leave that behind for this "lengthy" trip, when he could have brought it. So, IMO, he had ideas of what he would be doing there that didn't involve gaming.

I grew up fishing too. Even when I was really young, I loved to get up early and go with my grandfather and father (I was a weird child). I still enjoy it. However, in this case, I think we're asking whether a boy of 13 would get up early in the morning, grab a pole (but no tackle box that we know of, and I've asked that question more than once) and walk miles to go fishing. All while knowing that his father would be returning shortly to pick him up to take him to his friends. Sure, it's possible, it just seems unlikely IMO.

 

[Money Girl]

Yes, you got a sense of the context of what she said. I did too, although it took some work. I get the same sense of context from things MR says and it too takes some work. It requires stepping out of what I "think" of these two parents, because at least for me, neither of them inspires blind loyalty. Both are irritating and to me, both are upset, aggrieved and lost about the disappearance of their son.

Dylan looks to have left his father's house under his own power. Something happened after that. What? What happened to Dylan Redwine? I do not believe MR knows, in spite of all his faults.

Bayou, Was the cross-country trip with Dylan and Mark this past August? That is a lot of bonding and one-on-one time.

 

[dlc]

Thanks kindly! It truly was a lot more work than I had intended to get myself involved in again. I do, however, understand the value of having transcripts. It would be a shame if after all that work that we were unable to discuss it somehow/somewhere. Hopefully a mod will check the Media/Timeline to see what is currently available there. They may want to move them elsewhere.

Thanks again.

It was a ton of work. Hopefully we can get some clarification today on whether or not we can discuss it, now that we have actual transcripts and aren't guessing on what was said. Thank you for doing all of that -- one way or another, the transcripts are really useful.

 

[Money Girl]

Thanks for the link. But I do think that MR is the best source of Dylan's behavior at MR's house. ER didn't ever live there, she describes it as remote/isolated and I can see Dylan behaving differently in that environment than he did in Bayfield or Monument where social activities are easier to access.

When both my older brother and I were young, we LOVED to spend time at our aunt's home in Wilkes County, NC. It was definitely remote/isolated, much more than MR's home. I still go there to visit my cousins and romp all over the fields and pastures and go to the creek and cross the foot-log and fish whenever I get a chance. My 13-year old son loves going there also.

 

[The Cheese]

Bayou, Was the cross-country trip with Dylan and Mark this past August? That is a lot of bonding and one-on-one time.

Yes

Mark vividly remembers the last vacation he took with his son, a road trip to Boston in August. They visited Fenway Park and went to the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, N.Y. It was a dream vacation for a boy who loves baseball and is a devoted Red Sox fan.

http://www.durangoherald.com/article/20121215/NEWS01/121219687

 

[Emma Ems]

When I read this quote from him, I see him projecting his OWN issues on ER. I think HE was the one that had a huge problem, which was that his son had a closer bond with his mom than with him. JMO

Dylan was not returning Mark's texts or his calls, and was living with his MOM. So the statement above makes no sense. And I think it is a vital clue to the underlying trigger and or 'motive'.

I find what he said perfectly believable. He was a stay at home dad with Dylan and ER was working. The "bonding" years are very early on in life.

You were born preprogrammed to bond with one very significant person—your primary caregiver

The attachment bond is the term for your first interactive love relationship—the one you had with your primary caregiver as an infant

http://www.helpguide.org/mental/eqa_attachment_bond.htm

This is giving that usually the primary caregiver is the mother, but, if MR stayed home and ER went back to work that means this bond probably would have been formed with MR. It's important to know, how soon after Dylan's birth did ER go back to work, and how long did MR stay home with Dylan?

I do not think the courts could have given primary custody to MR based on the fact MR was out of town a lot. Prior to the move, wasn't it noted they had joint/equal custody of Dylan and any primary arrangements were not in place until the move to CS? If that was the case, Dylan could see his father whenever he wanted when his dad was back in town. I do wonder what happens when a child develops a primary attachment with a parent, and has the ability after a divorce to see them both equally until an abrupt change occurs and visits with the primary parent are limited/restricted to every few months or so? I am going to delve into that research. I do feel like the things I am reading right now explain why most courts(at least to my understanding) give primary custody to mothers unless there are circumstances that deem that impossible(since mothers are usually the primary caregiver early in life, but it seems here the roles may have been a bit reversed.)

 

[Money Girl]

<modsnip>

Jason Sutter? No, nothing's been said that's he's cleared. No one has been cleared by LE in this case, although LE stated in Feb that neither Mark nor Elaine are considered suspects.

I check for news about Sutter every day on Google and Twitter. I'll post if anything new comes along.

Thank you, Cheese, for following up on Jason Sutter every day.

 

[Money Girl]

Yes, you got a sense of the context of what she said. I did too, although it took some work. I get the same sense of context from things MR says and it too takes some work. It requires stepping out of what I "think" of these two parents, because at least for me, neither of them inspires blind loyalty. Both are irritating and to me, both are upset, aggrieved and lost about the disappearance of their son.

Dylan looks to have left his father's house under his own power. Something happened after that. What? What happened to Dylan Redwine? I do not believe MR knows, in spite of all his faults.

Agree with you, and I will add that we all have faults.

 

[Emma Ems]

I grew up fishing too. Even when I was really young, I loved to get up early and go with my grandfather and father (I was a weird child). I still enjoy it. However, in this case, I think we're asking whether a boy of 13 would get up early in the morning, grab a pole (but no tackle box that we know of, and I've asked that question more than once) and walk miles to go fishing. All while knowing that his father would be returning shortly to pick him up to take him to his friends. Sure, it's possible, it just seems unlikely IMO.

It's something I would do to waste time while waiting on someone else for something. Then again we had a pond at the back of our property. I would take my pole and if the line broke or anything that needed repair that was when I would end it. I was able to spend hours out fishing without any of that happening though.

Does anyone know off hand where the closest fishing source to MR's home is?

 

[Emma Ems]

It's hard to find stuff relating to young teens, but in some of what I am reading when it comes to divorce that the changing are often drastic for a child(of any age) and that due to the stressors with the change that the parent the child developed the primary attachment bond with is the one the child usually feels safest with in times of stress. Here is more about the bonding:

The child’s development of an emotional attachment to a primary caregiver in the first six years of life is very important.

This the ages when the bond forms.

First, it is important to ensure the child has continuous and ready access to the parent with whom the child has developed an emotional attachment.

http://www.peterhaiman.com/articles...tional-development-when-parents-divorce.shtml

 

[rebeccaeee]

Makes me think of Sidney Randall (age 14) and Kathlynn Shepard (age 15), both murder victims who were recently found under debris in creeks/rivers by fishermen, even after massive search efforts. They both have threads on WS if folks are interested in the details.

Where are you, Dylan? :candle:

:cow:

In Sidney's case, I believe searchers had used sonar to follow up on dog hits on the water but missed her previously. It took luck and a keen-eyed fisherman to bring her home. I've been paying close attention to HRD dog stories and water searches in general since Dylan went missing. There are too many of them. :frown:

 

[Emma Ems]

Given the animosity of these two parents, I wonder if EH didn't block MR's number from Dylan's phone. This is a possible explanation for Dylan not returning text messages to his father.

If anyone chooses to research this possibility, remember that Dylan has Verizon cell service presumably attached to his mother's account. A blocked text message goes into the airwaves and the sender never gets any kind of notice and the receiver never does either. Only an account manager could block or unblock a number from a phone with Dylan being totally unaware. Phone calls are different and Verizon has a standard message that the blocked person gets when they attempt to call. I'm sure someone can locate that recording.

BBM. Maybe.

 

[cat28]

When both my older brother and I were young, we LOVED to spend time at our aunt's home in Wilkes County, NC. It was definitely remote/isolated, much more than MR's home. I still go there to visit my cousins and romp all over the fields and pastures and go to the creek and cross the foot-log and fish whenever I get a chance. My 13-year old son loves going there also.

BBM I was born and raised there. It is definitely remote. We fished a lot growing up. :greetings:

 

[azgrandma]

I find what he said perfectly believable. He was a stay at home dad with Dylan and ER was working. The "bonding" years are very early on in life.





http://www.helpguide.org/mental/eqa_attachment_bond.htm

This is giving that usually the primary caregiver is the mother, but, if MR stayed home and ER went back to work that means this bond probably would have been formed with MR. It's important to know, how soon after Dylan's birth did ER go back to work, and how long did MR stay home with Dylan?

I do not think the courts could have given primary custody to MR based on the fact MR was out of town a lot. Prior to the move, wasn't it noted they had joint/equal custody of Dylan and any primary arrangements were not in place until the move to CS? If that was the case, Dylan could see his father whenever he wanted when his dad was back in town. I do wonder what happens when a child develops a primary attachment with a parent, and has the ability after a divorce to see them both equally until an abrupt change occurs and visits with the primary parent are limited/restricted to every few months or so? I am going to delve into that research. I do feel like the things I am reading right now explain why most courts(at least to my understanding) give primary custody to mothers unless there are circumstances that deem that impossible(since mothers are usually the primary caregiver early in life, but it seems here the roles may have been a bit reversed.)

1st BBM - I believe that you are mixing terms, IMO, there is no such thing as primary arrangements with respect to custody. Perhaps temporary arrangements or preliminary arrangements?

When a person files for divorce w/children, the temporary orders establish which parent has physical custody (meaning which residence will be the child's physical residence) they also determine custody of the child, joint or sole (meaning which parent(s) make the decisions about school, church, medical care) then they determine visitation (even if you have joint custody, visitation has to be determined, is Johnny going to be with mom Sunday through Saturday then goes with dad from Sunday through Saturday, whatever the arrangements and at this time if the parents can't agree the judge will decide) Again, those are TEMPORARY orders until the final dissolution is granted.

I can't imagine it taking several years for visitation or custody or residence to be agreed upon and become permanent. However, having experienced numerous court hearings with one of the parties involved, I can see it happening easily.

IIRC in the Denver Post article about the under the window indiscretion incident, the reporter mentioned that they had been separated or divorced and that was in 2005. By 11/18/2012 custody and visitation had long been established, the only reason that it was changed IMO is because of EH’s move for a better life for her & Dylan. Proximity to each other made joint custody a challenge and visitation would have to be explored with consideration to travel, school & work.

2nd BBM – I really wonder about the use of “primary attachment with a parent” that IMO discredits all parents and their unique bonding with their children, sort of like I’m first, pick me, pick me. IMO children develop relationships with their parents not based on who changed the most diapers. In this case and as you mentioned in your post, we (in general) don’t know how long MR was a stay at home dad, nor do we (in general) know what age Dylan was during this adventure of daddy daycare. EH mentioned in DP and it was not disputed or corrected by MR (he in fact has made similar references) that for a few years prior to Dylan’s disappearance, MR’s visitation was sporadic due to his employment. Sporadic, IMO does not mean that Dylan saw both MR & EH equally.

3rd BBM – do you have a link where the roles were reversed from early in life? You, yourself, mentioned that it is unknown at what age and for what duration, MR cared for Dylan. We (in general) don’t know if “roles may have been reversed” for a week, a month, a year or how long.

 

[azgrandma]

edit - double post

 

[KateNY]

I wonder if there are any studies out there about parents who murdered their children, in reference to the quality, and time frame of....bonding time.

And I also wonder how this topic, helps find Dylan


:twocents:

 

[azgrandma]

I wonder if there are any studies out there about parents who murdered their children, in reference to the quality, and time frame of....bonding time.

And I also wonder how this topic, helps find Dylan


:twocents:

I wonder that as well.

 

[rebeccaeee]

I wonder if there are any studies out there about parents who murdered their children, in reference to the quality, and time frame of....bonding time.

And I also wonder how this topic, helps find Dylan


:twocents:

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/skelton_tanner.html

Hate to be making comparisons again but.....The parents of the Skelton boys were married for eight years. When dad took the kids out of school and out of state without mom's permission, mom had to involve LE to get her children back. After that, she filed for divorce. "The children had been visiting John on a regular basis with no reported problems. John had previously worked as a long haul truck driver but in 2009 he was fired after he was convicted of drunk driving. He had been unemployed ever since." In November of 2010, two months after their mom had filed for divorce, the Skelton boys disappeared on a Thanksgiving visit with their father and have not been seen since.

The Skelton boys sounded like they had a loving relationship with their father, despite his long haul trucking, and had enjoyed regular visitation...until IMO he murdered them in Nov 2010. :cow::cow::cow:

 

[katydid23]

Bayou, Was the cross-country trip with Dylan and Mark this past August? That is a lot of bonding and one-on-one time.

That's right. So I am wondering why D would have been more distant when he landed in Durango in November.

 

[Bayou Mistress]

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/skelton_tanner.html

Hate to be making comparisons again but.....The parents of the Skelton boys were married for eight years. When dad took the kids out of school and out of state without mom's permission, mom had to involve LE to get her children back. After that, she filed for divorce. "The children had been visiting John on a regular basis with no reported problems. John had previously worked as a long haul truck driver but in 2009 he was fired after he was convicted of drunk driving. He had been unemployed ever since." In November of 2010, two months after their mom had filed for divorce, the Skelton boys disappeared on a Thanksgiving visit with their father and have not been seen since.

The Skelton boys sounded like they had a loving relationship with their father, despite his long haul trucking, and had enjoyed regular visitation...until IMO he murdered them in Nov 2010. :cow::cow::cow:

The SKELTON brothers have not been confirmed as murdered. They are classified as missing.