CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #15 *ARREST*

[The Night Watchman]

I think it's both. He did solicit someone to help w/ murder in
advance and he also lost it in a fit of anger/rage.
He seems impulsive to me, has anger control issues based
on comments from fellow rodeo people about his anger and
mistreatment of his horses. Temper problems, anger issues
and rage can all be related.
If he despised her enough to plan to get rid of her, it wouldn't
take much to push him over the edge to whack her off or
strangle her.
I wonder about his drug/alcohol use. He seems to have
trouble with self-control. Could also explain why all his
so-called jobs involve self-employment. Maybe he couldn't
pass a drug test to work for others. Big problem today in the
work world.

It was both planned, and then spontaneous. Posed by enelram and Curious Cricket.

Interesting. He had already crossed the get-rid-of-her threshold in his head, which made a violent reaction easier for him.

This could be, and would explain why the process may not have been as clean as it could have been with methodical planning and follow through.

 

[CuriousCricket]

I know it’s been mentioned multiple times here, but I wonder if PF wasn’t the baby’s dad, and he found out. Maybe an attorney can chime in, but why would KB’s family automatically get custody of the baby? Why is that a given?

Maybe he's not on the birth certificate. It could be that she filled out the paper work at the hospital when he wasn't there to sign it and since they weren't married, she could not add his name as the father without his approval.

Or maybe, she was advised that legally the baby should have just her name on the certificate in case she ever wanted to relocate.

I don't know what Colorado's laws are, but that's a guess about perhaps he legally has no rights to her until his parentage is proven.

Which leads to the next question --- Would his keeping the baby from its maternal grandmother have been kidnapping if he has no legal rights to the baby?

 

[Thinker22]

Could that big hole on the property have been a horse grave?
Moo

Probably not that close to the house.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

I have the same question.

I don’t think he has much respect for females. In that YouTube video of him showing his trained dogs for herding cattle he kept calling the female dogs the “B” word way too many times instead of by their names. I know that’s what you call a female dog but it’s the tone and how he said it so many times. Sorry guys I’m so tired I’m not making much sense. Lol.

You make sense to me.

 

[Kapua]

What always amazes me about these perps is that they think they can murder their SO/former SO and go back to their everyday lives. They seem to think that after the heat dies down, everything will go back to normal. And it rarely if ever turns out that way. They never seem to think they will be tried and convicted, either.

 

[BRRI]

It took me a few minutes and several sips of coffee before I figured out what ONS meant.

jmo

Me too. And now I feel old.

 

[The Farm]

2) How could LE find something at the condo that they missed the first time? I realize the first visit was closer to a missing person's case, but still it is a small condo and the police utilize high tech techniques to reveal evidence. How could they miss blood evidence, or evidence "up high" in the condo? Surprising.

I wondered that same thing and if painting to cover up had taken place I would think you could small fresh paint as soon as you walked into a closed up small place. Also I can not remember if dogs were brought in before that?

 

[Jupiter05]

I know it’s been mentioned multiple times here, but I wonder if PF wasn’t the baby’s dad, and he found out. Maybe an attorney can chime in, but why would KB’s family automatically get custody of the baby? Why is that a given?

I dont think there is any reason to go down that road. I would guess that Kelsy's mother is the best next option rather than give custody of the baby to the family of the murderer. If something happens that proves PF's innocence, which is highly doubtful, then I assume custody would be given back to him. IMO

 

[Kadie]

I know it’s been mentioned multiple times here, but I wonder if PF wasn’t the baby’s dad, and he found out. Maybe an attorney can chime in, but why would KB’s family automatically get custody of the baby? Why is that a given?

It's possible that CPS filed a petition with the Court and now DHHS has care, custody and supervision of K. DHHS will determine what type of placement is in the best interest of the child; that could be a relative caregiver or a foster home. I am curious to know if PF was on the child's birth certificate. In Michigan, when a baby is born and the parents are not married, mother automatically has primary custody. The biological father has to actually file paperwork with the Probate Court to obtain any type of physical/legal custody and visitation rights.

 

[Irmese]

Using someone's property to hide things without their knowledge was my first thought, even knowing where someone might keep gas where he could fill up his truck.

Edited because I'm taking pain meds and keep screwing up.

 

[gngr~snap]

Probably not that close to the house.

I know know next to nothing about horses, but I heard people bury them where they drop. (Indicating he perhaps shot it)
He probably had equipment to move them.

Moo

 

[PrairieWind]

I know it’s been mentioned multiple times here, but I wonder if PF wasn’t the baby’s dad, and he found out. Maybe an attorney can chime in, but why would KB’s family automatically get custody of the baby? Why is that a given?

I don't think there is much question that PF is the father. He must be listed on the birth certificate or he wouldn't have had the child the last several weeks. I don't think it is a given at all that KB's family will get custody immediately. I know that police chief indicated that in the press conference but that was jumping the gun. Its not up to law enforcement. The district court will appoint a guardian next week and a long process will begin. I will say that the fact that the chief said that KB's family will get custody does tell me that there is some suspicion that PF's mother has some involvement with KB's disappearance. Otherwise, she would be the logical one to have custody at least in the short term.

 

[Mimi in London]

No problem. If you want to and can still edit the post you can move the comments down past the [ / Quote] part and it will put them below the quoted part. You probably already know that now

Thank you!

 

[SoBu]

I wondered that same thing and if painting to cover up had taken place I would think you could small fresh paint as soon as you walked into a closed up small place. Also I can not remember if dogs were brought in before that?

It was noted earlier that some type of new paints, maybe low VOCs, don’t leave a smell.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

Perps sometimes choose remote areas that are familiar to them to try and dispose of things discreetly.

Yesterday, evidence was found and announced by the PD in Twin Falls yesterday. Why might this area be familiar to PF?

Possibilities...

He has family there who he has visited many times.

There is a vacation spot or cabin there he has been to there.

He has a friend or other love interest there.

He participated in rodeos there.

He goes there for something to do with work.

Smaller chance: he went to college there.

 

[BRRI]

I don't think there is much question that PF is the father. He must be listed on the birth certificate or he wouldn't have had the child the last several weeks. I don't think it is a given at all that KB's family will get custody immediately. I know that police chief indicated that in the press conference but that was jumping the gun. Its not up to law enforcement. The district court will appoint a guardian next week and a long process will begin. I will say that the fact that the chief said that KB's family will get custody does tell me that there is some suspicion that PF's mother has some involvement with KB's disappearance. Otherwise, she would be the logical one to have custody at least in the short term.

Thanks! Makes sense!

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

I have the same question.

If it was about custody, and Kelsey was leaving, taking the child, then he would not have access.

It's about control,and ownership. If someone like PF loses ownership,control watch out. The poor horse in the trailer knows this.
I'm thinking Kelsey realized she needed to get her,and baby out.
Breaks my heart she didn't make it.

MOO

 

[The Farm]

I know know next to monothi about horses, but I heard people bury them where they drop. (Indicating he perhaps shot it)
He probably had equipment to move them.

Moo

Many towns and areas do not allow you to bury livestock on the property and usually if that is the case you have them taken away where they are buried in a huge pit. I know awful. PF had enough land and privacy that he could bury on his property but he could have just drug them out to a more remote area and they would be eaten. But it brings in the mountain lions and you really do not want them making themselves comfortable around your animals.
In Teller County they do not even pick up the roadkill such as deer etc. they might push it over to the side of the road but it is left for predators and they make short order of it in just a few days and all that is left is some bones.
That hole could have been that or it could have been the septic.

 

[MsBetsy]

I know it’s been mentioned multiple times here, but I wonder if PF wasn’t the baby’s dad, and he found out. Maybe an attorney can chime in, but why would KB’s family automatically get custody of the baby? Why is that a given?

I don't think it is known at this point who will be awarded permanent custody, although when I first read the posts about it after his arrest, that was the impression I got too.
As I understand, there will be a hearing in order to decide this, or at least for temporary custody.
There are many things to consider when deciding where to place the child permanently. If the child has a strong bond with the person who has been the primary caretaker, they will usually place her there. But these are unusual circumstances, so it's hard to tell. Also the child's age may be taken into account. She may easily adapt to change, and may bond quickly with Kelseys family during the period of time they will be caring for her. How long that will be we don't know.
We've had an attorney discuss this, Gitana 1, if you can find her comments from last night.
As far as PF not being the father, we have no indication of this, and I'm assuming his name is on the birth certificate. But her family can always request a paternity test. They can also request a psychological. There are lots of things to consider, including the environment, family dynamics of each family, religion, age, health, and finances. It will be interesting to see what develops. I hope her family gets custody. Do we know if Kelseys mom and dad are together? I haven't heard anything about her father. Jmo

 

[Deleted member 155000]

Using someone's property to hide things without their knowledge was my first thought, even knowing where someone might keep gas where he could fill up his truck.

Edited because I'm taking pain meds and keep screwing up.

I agree and have said the same thing. He could’ve hid items or her body on property that is known to him, but without asking their permission.