CT- Annie Le, missing from Yale, thread #5 FOUND DECEASED

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Could it be that the "lab technician who works with animal testing at Yale" phrasing is meant to muddle this?

That wording phrases it to make it sound like a lower level position and more of an animal handler (or that's the connotation I get) - someone who is more of the rodent handling services type stuff that was just linked a post or two up.

HOWEVER, any technician (or person) working in a lab (including one who publishes) and is doing testing that involves animals also falls under that description, right? It isn't the glamorous way to say it, and it sort of "lessens" their title, but...

I mean, couldn't even Annie fall under that description? She was a technician working in a lab and did testing involving animals...right?

I really wonder if the phrasing is purposely trying to steer one direction over another - to make it look like they are looking another direction.


I see what you're saying here....

and honestly, with all of the jumbled reporting about labs, techs, etc and the fact that the reporters don't seem to understand the intricacies of it all, I am taking all of these reports with a grain of salt. I don't know if the reporters would correctly distinguish between an animal lab tech and a researcher working with animals, since most of the info is being leaked anyway...or so it seems:)
 
They would absolutely be required to use the services. This is true in every university that uses animals. As I explained previously it is not permitted to house mice in your laboratory. They must be kept in an animal facility- this is all explained actually on another page of the site that's posted above. You must go to that facility to work with your mice- you can only remove mice from the facility for terminal experiments. If you take them out they can not go back. Animal use is extremely regulated. If anyone violates the rules badly enough, their research projects can be shut down.

This is how it works- There is an entire department in charge of everyone's animals. Scientists must order mice through this department- it assigns investigators space for their animals. People who are going to work with the animals receive training in the proper handling of research animals before they are allowed access to the facility. Yale has multiple facilities in different buildings, as do we. These facilities generally each have a supervisor and multiple animal/husbandry techs. These animal techs are responsible for changing cages, checking food and water every day, room sanitizing, bringing in supplies, cagewashing, autoclaving, euthanizing, housing new animals, etc.

It is a very hot, dirty, physically demanding job which generally does not pay very well. It does not require higher education. These techs would not be visiting research labs, co-authoring papers, etc.

Laboratory technicians work in the research labs. These techs can range from someone who washes glassware and makes solutions all the way up to lab manager. They often provide support to the doctoral students and post docs, but more advanced techs will often have their own experiments to do- these techs are often co-authors of research papers.

Anyone listed in Bennett's laboratory would not be an animal tech- they might work with his animals, but they are not an animal tech.

These are very different jobs.

Please Labrat - don't ever leave us!!! Your contributions and expertise are so appreciated. If we waited for the media to get their terminology right, we would all be sound asleep. Lab tech., research tech., animal tech., prof tech., post grad tech. - their inaccuracies are endless. Now I'm wondering if LE have their terms right????? Thanks so much.
 
They would absolutely be required to use the services. This is true in every university that uses animals. As I explained previously it is not permitted to house mice in your laboratory. They must be kept in an animal facility- this is all explained actually on another page of the site that's posted above. You must go to that facility to work with your mice- you can only remove mice from the facility for terminal experiments. If you take them out they can not go back. Animal use is extremely regulated. If anyone violates the rules badly enough, their research projects can be shut down.

This is how it works- There is an entire department in charge of everyone's animals. Scientists must order mice through this department- it assigns investigators space for their animals. People who are going to work with the animals receive training in the proper handling of research animals before they are allowed access to the facility. Yale has multiple facilities in different buildings, as do we. These facilities generally each have a supervisor and multiple animal/husbandry techs. These animal techs are responsible for changing cages, checking food and water every day, room sanitizing, bringing in supplies, cagewashing, autoclaving, euthanizing, housing new animals, etc.

It is a very hot, dirty, physically demanding job which generally does not pay very well. It does not require higher education. These techs would not be visiting research labs, co-authoring papers, etc.

Laboratory technicians work in the research labs. These techs can range from someone who washes glassware and makes solutions all the way up to lab manager. They often provide support to the doctoral students and post docs, but more advanced techs will often have their own experiments to do- these techs are often co-authors of research papers.

Anyone listed in Bennett's laboratory would not be an animal tech- they might work with his animals, but they are not an animal tech.

These are very different jobs.
bumpity bump bump bump bump bump (thanks again Rat)
 
I appreciate why they are being careful in naming the person they are interested in until they have the DNA testing back, but it would be nice if LE would take him into custody ahead of time so we could pull the arrest records for tomorrow. ;)

Thanks to Labrat for explaining about how those things work within such a setting as I had no idea. I would certainly have to pay for someone to take care of my mice for experiments since I would flip out every time I saw one. :)

SS, I had to lol at this! It reminded me of Friday telling her story about when she saw/heard that rattler in the search for Caylee!
 
bold is mine...... (following caps are mine but only for clarity)... NO THAT WOULD NOT BE THE SAME AS ANNIE. Hold on.. I am bumping labrat's post on animal tech... a dirty, hot, low wage job... kinda like a nursing assistant if that makes sense??? brb to bump

I think what TravelingBug is saying is that this same description can be applied to anyone who handles animals/equipment in a lab- this could be applied from the animal tech (low position) to the chair of the department (highest position). All these positions would technically have this particularly same knowledge and have the ability to perform these particular duties. Therfore, neither LE nor the 'message' they would be sending out to the public through the media would be "lying" in their description...maybe only somewhat misleading...(on purpose??) .
 
Could it be that the "lab technician who works with animal testing at Yale" phrasing is meant to muddle this?

That wording phrases it to make it sound like a lower level position and more of an animal handler (or that's the connotation I get) - someone who is more of the rodent handling services type stuff that was just linked a post or two up.

HOWEVER, any technician (or person) working in a lab (including one who publishes) and is doing testing that involves animals also falls under that description, right? It isn't the glamorous way to say it, and it sort of "lessens" their title, but...

I mean, couldn't even Annie fall under that description? She was a technician working in a lab and did testing involving animals...right?

I really wonder if the phrasing is purposely trying to steer one direction over another - to make it look like they are looking another direction.

Well, the press can make mistakes, sure, and no doubt there may be people trying to mislead, but anyone in the field would never call Annie a technician. They are simply different. To some degree, it's like the difference between a foreman at an auto plant, and an engineer. They both might be walking around a factory looking at things, but they have completely different roles, and only superficially seem to be doing similar things.
 
Could it be that the "lab technician who works with animal testing at Yale" phrasing is meant to muddle this?

That wording phrases it to make it sound like a lower level position and more of an animal handler (or that's the connotation I get) - someone who is more of the rodent handling services type stuff that was just linked a post or two up.

HOWEVER, any technician (or person) working in a lab (including one who publishes) and is doing testing that involves animals also falls under that description, right? It isn't the glamorous way to say it, and it sort of "lessens" their title, but...

I mean, couldn't even Annie fall under that description? She was a technician working in a lab and did testing involving animals...right?

I really wonder if the phrasing is purposely trying to steer one direction over another - to make it look like they are looking another direction.

I think it is more that the reporters are using terminology they are unfamiliar with while trying to sound like they actually know what they are talking about. You have to actually know what you're talking about to be deceptive.:)
 
bold is mine...... (following caps are mine but only for clarity)... NO THAT WOULD NOT BE THE SAME AS ANNIE. Hold on.. I am bumping labrat's post on animal tech... a dirty, hot, low wage job... kinda like a nursing assistant if that makes sense??? brb to bump

Sorry, I probably wasn't clear :-(

I know which post you mean, and that was what I was referencing in my post.

What they are trying to do (I think, as a possibility) is make it SEEM like it's the more hands on thing that Labrat and others referred to with super helpful details.

I mean, I know doctoral students that are also considered lab techs because of the lab work they do. And, in many cases, they also do testing on animals.

So, technically speaking, if you wanted to play with words and throw people off the scent, it just seems like that could be an attempt to "muddle things."

It definitely may well end up being a more 'pure' animal handler/tech type...but I'm just saying I can see how you could be "particular" with your words (like, IMO, there have been many instances of the past few days) and make it seem one way, when in reality, it's another.

If that makes sense?
 
I see what you're saying here....

and honestly, with all of the jumbled reporting about labs, techs, etc and the fact that the reporters don't seem to understand the intricacies of it all, I am taking all of these reports with a grain of salt. I don't know if they would correctly distinguish between an animal lab tech and a researcher working with animals, since most of the info is being leaked anyway...or so it seems:)
I agree with the salt (you guys have seen me eating it all day long lol)...

what we do have here are scientists like labrat, gtk, and the rest of you brains that I missed that can give us invaluable information on how labs like this run, etc.

I again go back to SS's post.. that when we get this stinking name right (I bet we get one tomorrow) and we can get the job description.. what our websleuth scientists have to offer on these positions and the inner workings of a research lab will be so very insighful. Paying attention now to what they are saying will help educate us for what is to come.

I again extend a huge thanks to all of you for the introduction to this field.

THANK YOU!
 
I think what TravelingBug is saying is that this same description can be applied to anyone who handles animals/equipment in a lab- this could be applied from the animal tech (low position) to the chair of the department (highest position). All these positions would technically have this particularly same knowledge and have the ability to perform these particular duties. Therfore, neither LE nor the 'message' they would be sending out to the public through the media would be "lying" in their description...maybe only somewhat misleading...(on purpose??) .

Thank you! That was a much clearer way of saying what I was trying to say! :blowkiss:
 
Well, the press can make mistakes, sure, and no doubt there may be people trying to mislead, but anyone in the field would never call Annie a technician. They are simply different. To some degree, it's like the difference between a foreman at an auto plant, and an engineer. They both might be walking around a factory looking at things, but they have completely different roles, and only superficially seem to be doing similar things.

So are you saying that neither a PhD student nor a professor would have the ability to perform the same duties as a technician?
 
I think it is more that the reporters are using terminology they are unfamiliar with while trying to sound like they actually know what they are talking about. You have to actually know what you're talking about to be deceptive.:)

Ok, well with you saying this, should I continue to stick with scoping out the Rodent Services people...or not? I do wonder if the choice of words was used deliberately. But if Lab Tech is meant to be taken literally, and if the poi's phone has been shut off, then it shouldn't be as hard as going through every single one of the animal testing techs...or whatever they're exactly called. :)

One other thing that I think you may know...this has been bothering me, also: Would there be a person on duty around the clock? I always thought there was, and they worked in 8 hour shifts. I looked up the manager/supervisor and he only has 4 employees that work underneath of him...so I do wonder how it would work.

Again, LabRat, you've brought so much light to this discussion. Thanks so much for all you've added.
 
I see what you're saying here....

and honestly, with all of the jumbled reporting about labs, techs, etc and the fact that the reporters don't seem to understand the intricacies of it all, I am taking all of these reports with a grain of salt. I don't know if the reporters would correctly distinguish between an animal lab tech and a researcher working with animals, since most of the info is being leaked anyway...or so it seems:)

Here, have some Mrs. Dash instead. All the salt we've ingested today just isn't healthy....

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41SHKGA7F3L._SL500_AA280_.jpg
 
I agree with the salt (you guys have seen me eating it all day long lol)...

what we do have here are scientists like labrat, gtk, and the rest of you brains that I missed that can give us invaluable information on how labs like this run, etc.

I again go back to SS's post.. that when we get this stinking name right (I bet we get one tomorrow) and we can get the job description.. what our websleuth scientists have to offer on these positions and the inner workings of a research lab will be so very insighful. Paying attention now to what they are saying will help educate us for what is to come.

I again extend a huge thanks to all of you for the introduction to this field.

THANK YOU!

right on, we are lucky to have them here!
 
So are you saying that neither a PhD student nor a professor would have the ability to perform the same duties as a technician?
It is not the ability.. it is the job description and education level

For example, I am an open heart nurse. If my patient has an "accident" my nursing assistant does the cleaning up. I am too busy running the vent and titrating drips and keeping the patient alive.

The techs, as labrat already posted, keep the animals clean, alive, fed, and the cages sanitized so the scientists can do their work. Annie Le was a scientist.
 
Ok, well with you saying this, should I continue to stick with scoping out the Rodent Services people...or not? I do wonder if the choice of words was used deliberately. But if Lab Tech is meant to be taken literally, and if the poi's phone has been shut off, then it shouldn't be as hard as going through every single one of the animal testing techs...or whatever they're exactly called. :)

One other thing that I think you may know...this has been bothering me, also: Would there be a person on duty around the clock? I always thought there was, and they worked in 8 hour shifts. I looked up the manager/supervisor and he only has 4 employees that work underneath of him...so I do wonder how it would work.

Again, LabRat, you've brought so much light to this discussion. Thanks so much for all you've added.
additional labrat quesiton: are animal techs usually on 12 hour or 8 hour shifts?
 
bold is mine...... (following caps are mine but only for clarity)... NO THAT WOULD NOT BE THE SAME AS ANNIE. Hold on.. I am bumping labrat's post on animal tech... a dirty, hot, low wage job... kinda like a nursing assistant if that makes sense??? brb to bump
Yes. I know exactly what you mean.

Someone who would have felt that Annie was entirely out of their league possibly except she was so friendly to everyone which could have been mistaken as a flirtation to a person who was infatuated with her. Did she rebuff this person's advances in her outspoken way? She may not have much experience with this type of situation and with the upcoming wedding may have become very assertive with her dismissal of him. Of course, a person like that would have taken any negativity of advances as a personal attack. Jealousy and rage is what I am sticking with as a motive on this one.
 
question: does anyone know what year Annie was in at Yale? Was this her first year?
 
So are you saying that neither a PhD student nor a professor would have the ability to perform the same duties as a technician?

As to whether or not they have the abilities, it depends on what kind. Based on Labrat's description of an animal tech, then it sounds like a Ph.D. student would not.

For example, let's say that Annie experimented on mice. She may know a lot about diabetes, but she may have had no idea how to take care of mice.

But regardless of the abilities, the roles are different. If a professor did all his own lab work, she would never have time to do all the other things that a professor needs to do. For some things, I would imagine that a tech can do them better and faster than a professor, just due to familiarity and practice.
 
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