Defending against an intruder

[Holdontoyourhat]

Ah, so they "cased" the joint?

I don't believe the ransom letter. I'm sure I've made that plain.

OK SD, bye.

 

[BBB167893]

OK SD, bye.

Aw, don't y'all leave now! The fun's just startin'!

 

[weasel]

<<The idea that JBR had no opportunity to fight back is also supported by evidence>>

Just my opinion, but I still think those burn marks on the side of her face sure do look awhole lot like pictures I've seen of stun gun marks.

 

[weasel]

<<Ah, so they "cased" the joint?

I don't believe the ransom letter. I'm sure I've made that plain>>

I don't think they "cased" the joint, and I don't believe the ransom note either. But I must say I do wonder whether it was someone who was close to the family and knew intimate details.

 

[BBB167893]

<<The idea that JBR had no opportunity to fight back is also supported by evidence>>

Just my opinion, but I still think those burn marks on the side of her face sure do look awhole lot like pictures I've seen of stun gun marks.

You can put that right out of your mind, weasel. I own a stun gun. The marks never look like that on me. They look like this: multiple red marks with white centers. Besides, since when are stun gun burns listed as "abrasions?" And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

I don't think they "cased" the joint, and I don't believe the ransom note either. But I must say I do wonder whether it was someone who was close to the family and knew intimate details.

I can work with that.

 

[Ames]

Hey wait, I thought she had brown hair dyed blonde?

Anyway, the cost goes up yet again, as JBR would be smuggled just like other people get smuggled. On a boat.

That means if FFDI, without inside help, and intended to smuggle her out, it would've cost a small fortune. Even more than the ransom they had asked for. A burglary, a lot of surveillance, smuggling of a human, and the people and equipment required to do all that.

& please don't tell me smuggling humans only happens in the movies. It happens every day.

You are correct Holdon, her brown hair was dyed blonde. But, either way..that night...it was blonde, and I was just wondering how you believed that they would have smuggled a little blonde hair girl out of the country, you know...seeing that they were foreign and all. So, you believe that they would have taken a boat? So, they would have driven her toooooo? Where? California? Florida? and then taken the boat to whereever the heck they came from? I am just wondering what your thoughts are on this.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

You are correct Holdon, her brown hair was dyed blonde. But, either way..that night...it was blonde, and I was just wondering how you believed that they would have smuggled a little blonde hair girl out of the country, you know...seeing that they were foreign and all. So, you believe that they would have taken a boat? So, they would have driven her toooooo? Where? California? Florida? and then taken the boat to whereever the heck they came from? I am just wondering what your thoughts are on this.

Making fun of me, are we? Thats OK, I consider the source. Its just that I've been looking at this not just from IDI, but from extreme IDI. Thats where FFDI with no local help. It becomes very expensive, I noticed.

Anyway, to answer your question, I'd guess California or Washington. San Franciso, LA or Seattle maybe.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Any SFF going to all that cost and trouble wouldn't care about 118K that much.

An expensive FFDI scenario makes sense, because it negates the ransom part of the ransom note. This needs to be negated, because real live ransom kidnappers, whether international or not, would've left with JBR alive or dead. They would've also demanded a larger amount.

And there's no reason for PR to pretend to be international. The only foreign reference was brief and at the beginning of a long note. It was unnecessary in any RDI ruse. In fact, it lowers the credibility of the ransom kidnapper scenario by claiming them to be international ransom kidnappers, which doesn't really happen.

A SFF with a huge budget wanted JBR for another reason besides money, IMO.

 

[coloradokares]

Any SFF going to all that cost and trouble wouldn't care about 118K that much.

An expensive FFDI scenario makes sense, because it negates the ransom part of the ransom note. This needs to be negated, because real live ransom kidnappers, whether international or not, would've left with JBR alive or dead. They would've also demanded a larger amount.

And there's no reason for PR to pretend to be international. The only foreign reference was brief and at the beginning of a long note. It was unnecessary in any RDI ruse. In fact, it lowers the credibility of the ransom kidnapper scenario by claiming them to be international ransom kidnappers, which doesn't really happen.

A SFF with a huge budget wanted JBR for another reason besides money, IMO.

Let us start and consider, well financed or not, the actions of a SFF. There is nothing there. There was never a reason for abduction that alone murder by a SFF. I believe you should at least examine the need for the SFF and every time I consider it I come down to there was no need for one except they had a dead daughter to explain in their basement and the journalistic efforts went into hypermode.

 

[LI_Mom]

SFF might not have an inside source. Then it gets really expensive because SFF has to make multiple trips. There would likely have to be a burglary some weeks or months ahead of time.

If they can afford fresh pineapple in winter, you gotta figure they've got cash at their disposal.

Not to mention the big payoff when the job is complete.

 

[coloradokares]

If they can afford fresh pineapple in winter, you gotta figure they've got cash at their disposal.

Not to mention the big payoff when the job is complete.

It makes no sense to spend more than you demand for ransom. Epecially when the ransom is not going to be collected once the body is found and they did not even call to try to collect. Sounds more like this was a act of desperation from the get go. Not to mention canned pinapple would have been easier to get in and out .Budgetary considerations aside!

 

[Ames]

Any SFF going to all that cost and trouble wouldn't care about 118K that much.

An expensive FFDI scenario makes sense, because it negates the ransom part of the ransom note. This needs to be negated, because real live ransom kidnappers, whether international or not, would've left with JBR alive or dead. They would've also demanded a larger amount.

And there's no reason for PR to pretend to be international. The only foreign reference was brief and at the beginning of a long note. It was unnecessary in any RDI ruse. In fact, it lowers the credibility of the ransom kidnapper scenario by claiming them to be international ransom kidnappers, which doesn't really happen.

A SFF with a huge budget wanted JBR for another reason besides money, IMO.

Holdon, why do you believe that JB had her wrists bound, many inches apart, AFTER she was dead or unconscious? What was the purpose of that? Why were her wrists so far apart, and not tied BEHIND her? That cord was not used to restrain her, as an intruder would have done. I have told you this before, but I will say it again....when I was about her age...(a couple of years older)...I was also strangled, from behind....with a cord. I have a thread about this over at FFJ, and I believe one here also. I know for a fact, that if someone is strangled, while conscious, they will claw their neck to shreds, trying to remove the cord or obstacle that is keeping them from getting air. I did this...and I had no fingernails, because I used to chew them. JB had enough nails to clip, to be analyzed for DNA, so if she had of been conscious at the time of the strangulation, she would have used those fingers and fingernails, to try and remove the cord, so that she could breathe. Where are the claw marks on JB's neck? JB's skull fracture came first...IMO. She was dead, dying or unconscious (and thought to be dead) when the garotte was applied to her neck, so why the need to tie her wrists at that point? This is also, when I believe that the tape was put over her mouth. While I am at it, I believe that the wrists were tied so far apart, because rigor had already started to set in, and the person tying them (Patsy or John) couldn't move them any closer together.

 

[BBB167893]

And there's no reason for PR to pretend to be international. The only foreign reference was brief and at the beginning of a long note. It was unnecessary in any RDI ruse. In fact, it lowers the credibility of the ransom kidnapper scenario by claiming them to be international ransom kidnappers, which doesn't really happen.

Pardon my butting in, but just because there was no reason doesn't mean it didn't happen. Let me lay this on you: they couldn't say she ran away, because even though it would explain why they couldn't find her that morning, it wouldn't account for her being found dead later on. My guess is they just didn't know how to spell Hizbollah or Osama bin Laden. Heck, our own government can't agree on those spellings half the time.

Actually, I can think of a reason: the ransom letter is a clear (and rather transparent) attempt to play on popular Middle American fears. The same kind of fears PR tried to play on when she said, "hold your babies close to you. There's a killer out there." The same kind of fears that Susan Smith tried to play to. It's not that difficult to get from Point A to Point B in this case.

And what kind of Mickey Mouse operation would refer to themselves as "small," anyway? I thought these wackjobs liked to portray themselves as "mighty," or at least that's the impression I get whenever Ayman al-Zawahiri opens his mouth in a public statement.

Just offering.

Ames has a unique perspective, folks. She should be listened to.

 

[Toltec]

Holdon, why do you believe that JB had her wrists bound, many inches apart, AFTER she was dead or unconscious? What was the purpose of that? Why were her wrists so far apart, and not tied BEHIND her? That cord was not used to restrain her, as an intruder would have done. I have told you this before, but I will say it again....when I was about her age...(a couple of years older)...I was also strangled, from behind....with a cord. I have a thread about this over at FFJ, and I believe one here also. I know for a fact, that if someone is strangled, while conscious, they will claw their neck to shreds, trying to remove the cord or obstacle that is keeping them from getting air. I did this...and I had no fingernails, because I used to chew them. JB had enough nails to clip, to be analyzed for DNA, so if she had of been conscious at the time of the strangulation, she would have used those fingers and fingernails, to try and remove the cord, so that she could breathe. Where are the claw marks on JB's neck? JB's skull fracture came first...IMO. She was dead, dying or unconscious (and thought to be dead) when the garotte was applied to her neck, so why the need to tie her wrists at that point? This is also, when I believe that the tape was put over her mouth. While I am at it, I believe that the wrists were tied so far apart, because rigor had already started to set in, and the person tying them (Patsy or John) couldn't move them any closer together.

You are correct Ames....the strangulation came after Jonbenet lay dying. The remaining cord was used to tie her stiff arms together. The duct tape was placed on her post-mortem.

No broken hyoid...a perfect lip impression on the tape...I am most certain after the head blow, the cord tied around her neck burrowed only because of the swelling caused by the blow to the head.

I keep coming back to Burke's remarks on how Jonbenet was killed...."Someone took a knife...hit her over the head....

Who told Burke about a knife....his knife found in the basement?

 

[BBB167893]

I keep coming back to Burke's remarks on how Jonbenet was killed...."Someone took a knife...hit her over the head....

Who told Burke about a knife....his knife found in the basement?

I'm interested as to how he knew that, myself. It wasn't public information when he mentioned it.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Holdon, why do you believe that JB had her wrists bound, many inches apart, AFTER she was dead or unconscious? What was the purpose of that? Why were her wrists so far apart, and not tied BEHIND her? That cord was not used to restrain her, as an intruder would have done. I have told you this before, but I will say it again....when I was about her age...(a couple of years older)...I was also strangled, from behind....with a cord. I have a thread about this over at FFJ, and I believe one here also. I know for a fact, that if someone is strangled, while conscious, they will claw their neck to shreds, trying to remove the cord or obstacle that is keeping them from getting air. I did this...and I had no fingernails, because I used to chew them. JB had enough nails to clip, to be analyzed for DNA, so if she had of been conscious at the time of the strangulation, she would have used those fingers and fingernails, to try and remove the cord, so that she could breathe. Where are the claw marks on JB's neck? JB's skull fracture came first...IMO. She was dead, dying or unconscious (and thought to be dead) when the garotte was applied to her neck, so why the need to tie her wrists at that point? This is also, when I believe that the tape was put over her mouth. While I am at it, I believe that the wrists were tied so far apart, because rigor had already started to set in, and the person tying them (Patsy or John) couldn't move them any closer together.

There are multiple assumptions here, expecially the one where the garrote was applied later.

Evidence suggests the opposite, that the garrote was applied in JBR's bedroom, and that it was used to keep JBR silent all the way to the basement. The evidence is the cord fiber found in JBR's bed. This fiber contradicts the whole basement staging thing that RDI has clinged to for years.

Of course, cord fiber isn't the only contradiction. Unknown male DNA found in three criminally conspicuous places, spelling differences between the RN and PR exemplars that have not been officially accounted for, and unsourced cord and tape all contradict RDI.

RDI is inherently self-contradicting in all areas.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Pardon my butting in, but just because there was no reason doesn't mean it didn't happen.

There's no reason for PR to pretend to be foreign because ransom kidnapper would suffice. There's also no reason to pretend to be ransom kidnapper either because pretend accident would've attracted a lot less attention. No reason to leave her own personal handwriting, 1500 characters worth, at a capital crime scene. No reason to call 911 hours or even a day before the note they themselves wrote said to.

No reason, no reason, no reason. Of course, RDI finds ficticious reasons for these things to have happened, when really there are none factually known.

The reasons why someone picked up a pen to handwrite a long note, and sexually assualted and strangled a 6 year old girl are what you're looking for.

The only 'rational' reason someone would handwrite a note is if they knew, really knew, their handwriting would not be subject to any comparison at all, because of their remote distance. RDI has the luxury of conjuring up an infinite number of irrational scenarios, but please note that the only rational one is consistent with SFF.

 

[coloradokares]

There's no reason for PR to pretend to be foreign because ransom kidnapper would suffice. There's also no reason to pretend to be ransom kidnapper either because pretend accident would've attracted a lot less attention. No reason to leave her own personal handwriting, 1500 characters worth, at a capital crime scene. No reason to call 911 hours or even a day before the note they themselves wrote said to.

No reason, no reason, no reason. Of course, RDI finds ficticious reasons for these things to have happened, when really there are none factually known.

The reasons why someone picked up a pen to handwrite a long note, and sexually assualted and strangled a 6 year old girl are what you're looking for.

The only 'rational' reason someone would handwrite a note is if they knew, really knew, their handwriting would not be subject to any comparison at all, because of their remote distance. RDI has the luxury of conjuring up an infinite number of irrational scenarios, but please note that the only rational one is consistent with SFF.

Please tell me how Sff is rational?

 

[Ames]

There are multiple assumptions here, expecially the one where the garrote was applied later.

Evidence suggests the opposite, that the garrote was applied in JBR's bedroom, and that it was used to keep JBR silent all the way to the basement. The evidence is the cord fiber found in JBR's bed. This fiber contradicts the whole basement staging thing that RDI has clinged to for years.

Of course, cord fiber isn't the only contradiction. Unknown male DNA found in three criminally conspicuous places, spelling differences between the RN and PR exemplars that have not been officially accounted for, and unsourced cord and tape all contradict RDI.

RDI is inherently self-contradicting in all areas.

Then why didn't she have claw marks, where she tried to remove the garotte, especially when it started to cut off her air? I do agree with you that the staging started out in the bedroom, though. I know first hand, that she would have clawed her neck to try to remove that cord, if it was cutting off of her airway. And...don't tell me that her wrists were bound, so she couldn't try to pull the cord away, because her hands were not bound behind her...and there was WAY, WAY too much cord between the wrists, for it to have been any sort of restraint. If she had of been conscious, and her wrists were bound, at the time of the application of the garotte, then she could have easily put both of her hands up to her neck, and tried to remove the cord, from around her neck....therefore, leaving claw marks. There is no doubt in my mind that she was unconscious, dead or dying...from the head bash....at the time the garotte was placed around her neck. The reason that IMO...there was so much cord between the two wrists, is because rigor had already started to set in, and that was as far as John or Patsy could get them. How do you explain that much cord between her wrists, in your SFF scenario?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Then why didn't she have claw marks, where she tried to remove the garotte, especially when it started to cut off her air? I do agree with you that the staging started out in the bedroom, though. I know first hand, that she would have clawed her neck to try to remove that cord, if it was cutting off of her airway. And...don't tell me that her wrists were bound, so she couldn't try to pull the cord away, because her hands were not bound behind her...and there was WAY, WAY too much cord between the wrists, for it to have been any sort of restraint. If she had of been conscious, and her wrists were bound, at the time of the application of the garotte, then she could have easily put both of her hands up to her neck, and tried to remove the cord, from around her neck....therefore, leaving claw marks. There is no doubt in my mind that she was unconscious, dead or dying...from the head bash....at the time the garotte was placed around her neck. The reason that IMO...there was so much cord between the two wrists, is because rigor had already started to set in, and that was as far as John or Patsy could get them. How do you explain that much cord between her wrists, in your SFF scenario?

The wrist cord may not have been applied until she was in the basement, and they were going to move her to the car.

RDI:

Cord fibers in the bedroom? OK well in that case, the staging started there.
DNA evidence in suspicious places? Not related.
Cord and tape unsourced to the house? So what.
PR spells advise 'advize'? OK well in that case, she did it on purpose to throw us off.

One thing is for sure, you're thrown off. Whether or not PR did that is another story.