Evidence Discussion

[Roy23]

I agree with you Roy - I think LE saw some immediate red flags when they entered the home on the 12th. I really don't think Brad was quite ready for LE to show up at 3pm that afternoon. I don't think LE ignored the lady who claimed she thought she saw Nancy. I simply think the lady who made the claim felt more should have been done to respond to her directly. Which IMO is a pretty small thought given they were searching for Nancy and this woman didn't know where Nancy was. A murder case changes everything and who knows what LE saw and or collected at the location where Nancy was found. Perhaps Nancy's clothes were there and those clothes did not include a light colored t-shirt as the woman described. Its possible and it certainly would rule out what the woman claimed Nancy was wearing, thus ruling out her claim. More important things to do if her description didn't match up would you agree ?

No doubt about it. It could also be that they tied the vehicle to something at the dump site immediately. It sure does seem that JA may not have given Brad all the time he needed. In any case, you can bank they got something big at this point anyway.

 

[runr]

10-01-2008, 11:16 AM runr Scenario that may fit details as known at this point---------------------------------------------------
I am of the opinion that a small number of NC's friends were aware that NC planned to LEAVE BC that Sat. AM, and the ruse/story was that she had plans to paint at 8AM after "going for a run."

I think that her friends knew the whole plan and covered for her safety (and the children's) and that is why NC was like, "Whatever," when MH asked her the night before about BC playing tennis with him in the AM.

She intended to be gone by then with the kids, not "gone" as the events actually happened.
*******************************************************
I think may still be the reason why, without a thorough (sp?) exam of the house and car, LE was able to so quickly look no further than BC.

 

[SleuthyGal]

I am of the opinion that a small number of NC's friends were aware that NC planned to LEAVE BC that Sat. AM, and the ruse/story was that she had plans to paint at 8AM after "going for a run."

I think that her friends knew the whole plan and covered for her safety (and the children's) and that is why NC was like, "Whatever," when MH asked her the night before about BC playing tennis with him in the AM.

I've heard that same rumor.

 

[garner_nc]

^^I think if that was the fact then the affidavits from at least one of her friends would have stated that she was "leaving" that Saturday. None of her friends stated that, therefore I find it unlikely she was leaving that Saturday morning.

Leaving soon - Yes. Just not the Saturday she went missing

 

[fran]

I've heard it said that 'sometimes the lack of evidence, is the evidence.

Having said that, IMO, the (sudden) cleaning of the house by the suspect that fateful morning may be a piece of evidence LE has.

The {proof} that he did NOT normally do housework is, IMO, from Nancy's own mouth, via taped message played at the child custody hearing. That, AND added to what Nancy's sister witnessed first hand when she would stay with Nancy and the statements by Nancy's friends as well. IMO, those will most likely impeach Brad's words that he always helped around the house, as stated in his affidavits.

PLUS,........IMO, I don't believe for one minute that Brad would wash the floor of that house on his hands and knees. (see tape #7, used 'rag' to wash floor) THUS, the lack of a mop (to test for forensics). (ala, Peterson case, 'mop' SP used AFTER Laci went missing confiscated by LE)

All LE needs is info from Nancy's friends and family that Nancy did use a mop and the absence of a mop in the home (with hardwood floors) COULD possibly be 'circumstantial evidence' to a jury that Brad dumped the mop that morning while he was 'alleged' to have been looking for Nancy. (dumped with 'other' things that could be used to prove a crime was committed in the home)

JMHO
fran

 

[piedmont]

I'm wondering what damning evidence LE has. If the trunk bottom tested positive for something, that would clench it. I can't imagine BC saying anything in an email that could prove guilt.

 

[hroark2112]

I've heard it said that 'sometimes the lack of evidence, is the evidence.

Having said that, IMO, the (sudden) cleaning of the house by the suspect that fateful morning may be a piece of evidence LE has.

The {proof} that he did NOT normally do housework is, IMO, from Nancy's own mouth, via taped message played at the child custody hearing. That, AND added to what Nancy's sister witnessed first hand when she would stay with Nancy and the statements by Nancy's friends as well. IMO, those will most likely impeach Brad's words that he always helped around the house, as stated in his affidavits.

PLUS,........IMO, I don't believe for one minute that Brad would wash the floor of that house on his hands and knees. (see tape #7, used 'rag' to wash floor) THUS, the lack of a mop (to test for forensics). (ala, Peterson case, 'mop' SP used AFTER Laci went missing confiscated by LE)

All LE needs is info from Nancy's friends and family that Nancy did use a mop and the absence of a mop in the home (with hardwood floors) COULD possibly be 'circumstantial evidence' to a jury that Brad dumped the mop that morning while he was 'alleged' to have been looking for Nancy. (dumped with 'other' things that could be used to prove a crime was committed in the home)

JMHO
fran

That will get you past the GJ. That won't get you to "beyond a reasonable doubt" at trial, IMO.

He'll appeal to any male on the jury who has ever screwed up and done stuff out of the ordinary (i.e. cleaning the house, doing dishes, doing laundry) to get back in his wife's good graces. Kind of a "Look honey...I even scrubbed the floor on my hands & knees!!" thing. That won't sway the women on the jury, but it will sway most of the men!

 

[fran]

That will get you past the GJ. That won't get you to "beyond a reasonable doubt" at trial, IMO.

He'll appeal to any male on the jury who has ever screwed up and done stuff out of the ordinary (i.e. cleaning the house, doing dishes, doing laundry) to get back in his wife's good graces. Kind of a "Look honey...I even scrubbed the floor on my hands & knees!!" thing. That won't sway the women on the jury, but it will sway most of the men!

It's not any one thing that's going to convict him. It's the totality.

FWIW, Scott Peterson tried that tactic, something to the effect of "Laci was always washing the floor," YET her friends said she wasn't that particular, (especially just the day after the maid had been there!) It was also suspicious that he was vacuuming over and over the area of the washing machine and dryer..........Oh, yeah, also FWIW, there were BOTH men and women on his jury and they ALL thought he was guilty!

One piece at a time, one circumstance at a time,............there is NO coincidence when it comes to murder.:waitasec:

Just sayin',
fran

 

[La.Sandy]

Hi. This is my first post so go easy on me. I have been reading since the beginning of this case and just got the nerve to register and post.

Question for you smart people. Could it be that Brad slept with the girls that night because he suspected NC was going to flee with them. Did he search NC's room while she was still at the party and find something that made him keep the girls in his room that night? It seems like we heard that NC slept with the girls every night (maybe in friends' affidavits?). Was the first we heard of BC and NC taking turns in BC's depostion? BC was grilled about details of that night--bedtime routine, etc. and I got the feeling that they didn't believe this story. Were the girls really sleeping in NC's room after all? What have the girls said about that night and their usual bedroom routine?

Any thoughts?

 

[raisincharlie]

Hi. This is my first post so go easy on me. I have been reading since the beginning of this case and just got the nerve to register and post.

Question for you smart people. Could it be that Brad slept with the girls that night because he suspected NC was going to flee with them. Did he search NC's room while she was still at the party and find something that made him keep the girls in his room that night? It seems like we heard that NC slept with the girls every night (maybe in friends' affidavits?). Was the first we heard of BC and NC taking turns in BC's depostion? BC was grilled about details of that night--bedtime routine, etc. and I got the feeling that they didn't believe this story. Were the girls really sleeping in NC's room after all? What have the girls said about that night and their usual bedroom routine?

Any thoughts?

Hi La.Sandy

Good first post. You are right, some of Nancy's friends did indeed say that Nancy was the one who slept with the girls, along with her keys. I think some of your ideas are very good. I do believe Nancy was getting close to leaving and it is quite possible that Brad did some snooping. A previous fiancee posted an affidavit saying that she found out Brad was sneaking into her apartment after they broke up so I suspect he would have snooped on Nancy as well. He did get in her car and confiscate the children's passports. So it appears he can be and was sneaky for his own reasons.

I have always thought there was something odd about Brad claiming to be sleeping in the same bed as his two little girls at night. Actually I found it pretty darn creepy and alarming to be honest. I have also found his claims to always be playing with children to be odd as well. I think there was much in Brad's deposition that Alice Stubbs wasn't buying.

 

[per_curiam]

Hi, La Sandy. Your scenarios could be. I wonder if Brad was sleeping with them after Nancy came home, after she was killed, because she wouldn't be sleeping with the girls after she got home if she was dead! Maybe after he killed her he slept with the girls to keep them from looking for their mom.

Don't you wonder how people like Brad Cooper, Scott Peterson and the like can walk around looking like "so what"? If I do anything terrible, you're going to know it because I won't be able to lie and get by with it. These guys act like the death of their wife is like making another peanut butter sandwich. Just an everyday occurrence, no big deal to them.

 

[La.Sandy]

Ah, per_curiam, some more creepy possibilities! Brad is way to "cool" to me. I agree with you.

 

[per_curiam]

You know, Brad Cooper is a big, long guy. The girls probably had a double bed, or they could've had twin beds. I don't know. But can you imagine big huge Brad sleeping with the two girls regularly? He's too much into himself to do that. He'd probably rather sleep alone. I don't think it's a good idea to be sleeping with them anyway. All my assumptions aren't worth p-diddly, but that's what I'm thinking.

If anyone ever had to sleep with our kids when they were very young, it was me. Husband had to get up very early, so he needed his undisturbed sleep.

I'd think the pediatricians would have mentioned to quit sleeping with the girls along with getting Katie off the bottle. I'd also think that Nancy would be aware that giving milk to a chld, especially in the bottle at night would contribute to dental caries in a big way. Ever seen "nursing bottle mouth"? Black rotted teeth. I wonder what Nancy's friends knew of Katie's nightly habits, drinking milk from a bottle when she awoke? Or is this Brad's big story of convenience?

 

[momto3kids]

Hi. This is my first post so go easy on me. I have been reading since the beginning of this case and just got the nerve to register and post.

Question for you smart people. Could it be that Brad slept with the girls that night because he suspected NC was going to flee with them. Did he search NC's room while she was still at the party and find something that made him keep the girls in his room that night? It seems like we heard that NC slept with the girls every night (maybe in friends' affidavits?). Was the first we heard of BC and NC taking turns in BC's depostion? BC was grilled about details of that night--bedtime routine, etc. and I got the feeling that they didn't believe this story. Were the girls really sleeping in NC's room after all? What have the girls said about that night and their usual bedroom routine?

Any thoughts?

Welcome La Sandy!

I actually listened last night for the 1st time to some of depo #7 where he talks about this. I found some things quite interesting. As soon as I heard him speak of this I was questioning where he really was when she came home.

This stood out to me...

a) he mentions he had moved out of his and Nancy's bed quite awhile back because Bella had slept between him and NC and Bella moved too much for him. This was before he moved out permanently this past winter.
b) most kids habits of twisting and turning in the bed don't change too fast, all my kids were years before they stopped doing this.
c) interesting he was in the middle of the two girls and not on the edge. Bella was only turning 2 and she was on the edge? Even if the bed was against the wall I always feared suffocation with a young child.
d) he says it was very dark in the room, but NC opened the door to check on them. The hallway light was on, and she opened and shut the door. He knew the time it was when asked by Stubbs. I guess he had a watch that lit up, because if he doesn't this will be a part of the evidence that can hurt him IMO.

 

[AmarilloByAM]

The sleeping in the bed with the girls part is weird no matter which angle you look at it ... part of his trying to prevent Nancy from leaving with the girls in the middle of the night you think?

 

[momto3kids]

The sleeping in the bed with the girls part is weird no matter which angle you look at it ... part of his trying to prevent Nancy from leaving with the girls in the middle of the night you think?

I really don't think she was going to leave in the middle of the night. At the custody hearing JA had her calendar presented and it had JA helping NC to organize her home on Sunday the 13th.

She had intentions of leaving, but I feel she was going to do it legally correct. On this forum alone I have noticed different answers to different questions, one being if she could or couldn't get into Canada without the girl's passports. IMO it was too risky to try it, only to loose the girls to BC who she was trying to flee from.

 

[Star12]

Since it was Pinochi-nose that said he was sleeping with the girls, and that Katie had a bottle........ :liar: :liar: :liar:

It's so difficult to believe someone who is a proven liar. It's so dificult to believe someone whose credibility is waay beyond suspect. It's so difficult to believe someone whose main focus is only himself.

What is it they say? You can't con a con? I hope he makes lots of new friends who don't believe a word he says, either. (He's not a convict yet, but like Krista, I think he will be).

(If he was sleeping with the girls, if Katie did have a bottle, it would have only been because he either didn't want to or didn't know how to deal with the children at bedtime).

And BTW, I don't think anyone would have questioned those children about any aspect of Nancy's disappearance or murder.

 

[fran]

Welcome La.Sandy!

I agree with others, I don't know that Brad was sleeping with the girls that night.

mom, I too re-listened to the tape #7 and what I find interesting is the minute by minute detail BC gives of that last night and the next day that Nancy went missing, yet..............BC couldn't remember if the girls went to school on that Friday or even that past week at all!

I also listened to the questions BC was asked about that last morning. They say 'a lawyer doesn't ask a question they don't know the answer to.' At the end of the day, IMO, BC is going to regret that filmed deposition. It's going to come back to bite him during his murder trial, just watch!

JMHO
fran

 

[SleuthyGal]

His recall of some details is microscopic; his recall of other events is vague...all within the same timeframe. I wouldn't be able to remember the tiny details about things--can't even remember what I ate yesterday, for instance.

I find it strange that he slept w/the girls and in the same bed. Didn't these kids have their own room? I'm not buying his account of that night...actually I don't know what is the truth and what is a lie since he's been caught lying about many things.

 

[momto3kids]

I hope they know the watch he says he wore and find there is NO way he could tell the time on it unless the hands were lit or the face lit for him to see.

Otherwise he wasn't in the girls bed when NC got home to be able to know the time. Maybe to read a book, but to sleep there for approx 7 hrs? Naw, I don't buy it at all.