Evidence not tested

[justice be served]

Thanks.

I wonder if the garbage was collected (any signs of sanitary napkins)? I'm also wondering why Rebecca didn't have a tampon inserted.

Those are excellent questions. SDSO has indicated the perimeter area for gathering and testing evidence was relatively small. I guess they recorded blood in the shower so wonder if trash was checked in that room.

I still have to scratch my head on the fact she was bleeding and not worried about where all it went. This is just one more thing that isn't rational.

 

[*Lash*]

Well, I will say that blood in the endometrial cavity (uterus) is a sure sign that she was menstruating at the time of her death (or close, within hours, of it). In the absence of an injury or malformation, which would have been noted, the only time there is blood there is during a woman's cycle. (I won't go into more anatomical details, but you don't find "loose blood" without being on your period).

Thus, I think it's very safe to infer or draw the conclusion that RZ was on her cycle. Which could explain the blood drops easily.

Again, I'm not saying anything one way or another; just that this fact has now been cleared up (was she or was she not having her menses during her death).

Best-
Herding Cats

Rebecca also had an IUD according to her autopsy report. The effects of an IUD can also cause blood in the endometrial cavity and bleeding between menses. Just another possibility.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/64114521/Reports

 

[*Lash*]

Thanks.

I wonder if the garbage was collected (any signs of sanitary napkins)? I'm also wondering why Rebecca didn't have a tampon inserted.

In my opinion if you were surprised by someone while taking a shower, I doubt you would have time to insert a tampon. She didn't have underwear on to put on a pad and I highly doubt an intruder would stop to care about your menses. Doesn't make sense to me either!

 

[screecher]

Respectfully snipped and RBM

Other evidence not tested (I believe)

The bathroom blood

... deleted voicemail message[/B],

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15520745/...us-cell-phone-new-witnesses-accounts-reported

"The underwear was collected but was not examined
http://www.760kfmb.com/story/1606801...nce-not-tested

...clumps of hair...


http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/New-Details-In-Mansion-Death-Revealed-130329173.html

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15466715/questions-linger-in-coronado-mansion-hanging-death

"..."clear liquid"

...

Do we know if the inside of that black glove was tested for DNA?

... blood on the fingers....

... missing section of the 9-1-1 tape ...

 

[Betty P]

My apologies if this is the wrong place for this question, not sure where to put it.

Why would black gloves be in that bedroom that night?

If Rebecca committed suicide, why would she have brought black gloves into the room with her? I can't think of any plausible reason. If she were planning to commit suicide, why would she want to hide her own fingerprints?

It seems unlikely they would have been left out in the open by someone else who stayed in that room. It only seems logical they were left there by someone else who was interested in hiding their fingerprints.


Also, why were there two knives? Any thoughts?

MOO

 

[freespeech]

I have two concerns/questions:

Nina alleged that on 7/12/11 she borrowed Jonah's car to drive home from the hospital. She left Dina's car in the lot. When she got to Dina's house she sent Rebecca a text to ask her if it was OK to come over and talk. Rebecca did not answer so she walked over. A witness on a bike claimed he saw Dina and not Nina at the property that night.

Was Jonah's car ever tested for DNA to determine who actually drove his car that night?? I read that his car was totaled in an accident afterwards.

Is this a rumor or fact? I don't remember reading press releases about his car being destroyed or sold. I wonder if police ever tested the car for prints and DNA.

Also, Rebecca could have been stripped before being murdered to avoid leaving DNA evidence on her clothes. The police never recovered and tested the clothes she wore that night. That seems highly unusual for a murder investigation.

I wonder at what point they absolutely ruled out murder. To my knowledge the police never seemed curious or interested in finding her clothes or testing the women's clothes, panties, make-up wipes found in the guest house.

 

[freespeech]

My apologies if this is the wrong place for this question, not sure where to put it.

Why would black gloves be in that bedroom that night?

If Rebecca committed suicide, why would she have brought black gloves into the room with her? I can't think of any plausible reason. If she were planning to commit suicide, why would she want to hide her own fingerprints?

It seems unlikely they would have been left out in the open by someone else who stayed in that room. It only seems logical they were left there by someone else who was interested in hiding their fingerprints.

Also, why were there two knives? Any thoughts?

MOO

I don't recall where the pair of gloves was found. I agree that Rebecca obviously did not use them since L.E. claims they found her fingerprints and DNA at the scene. Maybe the murderer used them.

I don't know why there would be two knives. Maybe there were two people there together cutting the rope into pieces. There were also two paint brushes but only one with paint on it, iIrc.

Earlier someone suggested that they may have intended to paint a message on Rebecca's chest but then changed their mind and wrote on the door instead. If they had written on her chest it would have more obviously been a murder imo.

The search warrants do not specify what room the inventoried item was found. Why is that? How can the information be useful to them if they don't know where the item was? Does that make sense to anyone here? Is that standard for how search warrants are documented? Are there any police officers here who can answer that?

 

[FightTheOstrich]

IMO
They absolutely should have. The Mirena IUD is often used off-label and other hormone based pharmaceuticals are often prescribed in combination. So to assume that this was a menstrual bleed or bleeding related to spotting, break-through bleeding or whatever is impossible to determine. Especially, since we are not privy to her medical history, and don't know why or when the IUD was inserted.

RZ was not overweight and physically fit. It's possible that she did not bleed at all. Progestin IUD+possible low estrogen levels due to eating healthy, working out, low body fat etc.... Without her medical history it's difficult to say...

Reposting.

 

[FightTheOstrich]

Well, I will say that blood in the endometrial cavity (uterus) is a sure sign that she was menstruating at the time of her death (or close, within hours, of it). In the absence of an injury or malformation, which would have been noted, the only time there is blood there is during a woman's cycle. (I won't go into more anatomical details, but you don't find "loose blood" without being on your period).

Thus, I think it's very safe to infer or draw the conclusion that RZ was on her cycle. Which could explain the blood drops easily.

Again, I'm not saying anything one way or another; just that this fact has now been cleared up (was she or was she not having her menses during her death).

Best-
Herding Cats

I'm confused, are you talking about blood in the vaginal canal or uterus? The endometrium which lines the uterus is what is shed during a woman's cycle. It also initially supports the fetus during pregnancy. I guess I'm confused by your statement. My point being that blood in the uterus is not a sure sign of a menstrual cycle, there are other reasons for it.

 

[iSleuth]

on page 7 of the attached AR report ( doc page 11) details blood on RZ
http://www.scribd.com/doc/64114521/Reports


next one is warrant page 3/14
https://viewer.zoho.com/docs/sb65p

By The way the whole discussion is under " evidence not tested" You make good point about no absolutes; the question digressed in discussion if you read through you can see where- but still remains the same.

Detectives assumed RZ was having her period and so therefore assumed - all- (?) blood on the scene was related to this. ( also assumed the "" attack" happened in the shower- a lot of assumptions)( i also think during an interview- which I can't find at this moment with Drew Pinsky RZ's sister MZ stated examiners told her differently.) I think this may be where this came from.

Here is an excerpt from the interview re. RZ's sister and Dr. Drew


<<PINSKY: What other concerns did you have?

ZAHAU: For example, there was blood on her. We asked if she was having her period and they said no. But then where did that blood come from? Enough to be down her leg. Was it even checked if it`s hers? >>

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1109/02/ddhln.01.html

 

[freespeech]

I am wondering about the neck ligature marks.

If she went over the balcony on her own and died from hanging without the tee shirt knotted tightly around her neck then the rope would have slid up to right under her chin and she would have had the classic inverted v ligature mark below her right ear.

However, the autopsy report stated that she had an atypical ligature mark and without the inverted v. The ligature mark was more horizontal when it should have been more oblique. I'm wondering if the ligature stayed lower and straighter across her neck because the tee shirt held it in place and hence the rope was not free to move up and under her chin. Maybe that is why her neck did not break and she did not have the inverted v.

She could have been strangled to death before she was thrown over. The hanging rope ligature could have then been applied over the strangulation ligature mark and held in place by the tee shirt.

If the killer would have simply hung Rebecca without the tee shirt, then when she went over, the rope ligature would have moved up and under her chin to form a second ligature mark with the inverted v.

Two visibly distinct ligature marks, a thinner one below the chin area and over the Adam's apple and a thicker one under the chin with the inverted v under the right ear would have then exposed the true cause of death as strangulation and the hanging as an antecedent cover-up.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...TItOWM1Mi00NGE4LWEyZDgtMjc3OWUxZTYzYmY5&hl=en

 

[inthedark14]

Freespeech ITA.

Are we to believe that she choked herself with a smaller ligature and then when that didn't work decided to use a tee shirt to make sure she got it right with a longer rope? Also has it ever been stated what caused the smaller ligature mark? She needed ALL these odd items to commit suicide? All the other odd things (the chair. The knives. The paintbrushes, etc.) Are to be ignored? Really?

Oh and the blood and the scratches and and the head wounds and the mysterious mixed DNA?

Excuse my snark but SERIOUSLY?!

Always MOO

 

[justice be served]

Freespeech ITA.

Are we to believe that she choked herself with a smaller ligature and then when that didn't work decided to use a tee shirt to make sure she got it right with a longer rope? Also has it ever been stated what caused the smaller ligature mark? She needed ALL these odd items to commit suicide? All the other odd things (the chair. The knives. The paintbrushes, etc.) Are to be ignored? Really?

Oh and the blood and the scratches and and the head wounds and the mysterious mixed DNA?

Excuse my snark but SERIOUSLY?!

Always MOO

In the dark: all good questions of yours but SDSO gave supremely good answers on their website to explain all of that after the suicide ruling. Okay just kidding. That is about how ridiculous their answers were to the many indefensible questions that have been raised IMO. Their rulings and responses are just a bunch of fluff. Sorry, just feeling the insanity and frustration of all of this at the moment.

 

[iSleuth]

I am wondering about the neck ligature marks.

If she went over the balcony on her own and died from hanging without the tee shirt knotted tightly around her neck then the rope would have slid up to right under her chin and she would have had the classic inverted v ligature mark below her right ear.

However, the autopsy report stated that she had an atypical ligature mark and without the inverted v. The ligature mark was more horizontal when it should have been more oblique. I'm wondering if the ligature stayed lower and straighter across her neck because the tee shirt held it in place and hence the rope was not free to move up and under her chin. Maybe that is why her neck did not break and she did not have the inverted v.

She could have been strangled to death before she was thrown over. The hanging rope ligature could have then been applied over the strangulation ligature mark and held in place by the tee shirt.

If the killer would have simply hung Rebecca without the tee shirt, then when she went over, the rope ligature would have moved up and under her chin to form a second ligature mark with the inverted v.

Two visibly distinct ligature marks, a thinner one below the chin area and over the Adam's apple and a thicker one under the chin with the inverted v under the right ear would have then exposed the true cause of death as strangulation and the hanging as an antecedent cover-up.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...TItOWM1Mi00NGE4LWEyZDgtMjc3OWUxZTYzYmY5&hl=en

on the AR page 5/6 read about -the marks on her face ( rare petechaie) and "the anterior portion of her mouth" and more.

This could prove your theory that before she was hung-she was strangled before and /or even possibly also raped orally. I agree with you, maybe the shirt was to cover of that dna and assault. Maybe the shirt tied around her face ) 3 times, and down her throat, was the perp's. and it has -their dried secretions.
:-(
and add that to the impossible suicide. climbing over the iron railing with the rope ligatures, wrists, ankles, oh yeah the neck , and the turquoise t shirt.

(I wish someone had some big horrible injury to give them away re. Lavergne in LA.) which showed the other side of the fight.

RZ had quite a huge amount of injury IMOO. her head, back, shoulder, legs, feet. Right at this moment to me it feels like certain conditions of her accident as impossible to explain as Max's. Is it a coincidence...? She really did "fall from the bedroom!!!!!"
:::THUD:::

Was her death supposed to match his- on some evil level?

MOO I AM NOT naming any suspects pointing any fingers and maybe a stretch...but..maybe RZ surprised , raped, strangled( enough to look like hanging by length of rope), stabbed dragged ( during this time receiving abrasions)........and thrown off that balcony- to copycat poor MS

G-d Bless MS and RZ
and the missing.

 

[FightTheOstrich]

on page 7 of the attached AR report ( doc page 11) details blood on RZ
http://www.scribd.com/doc/64114521/Reports


next one is warrant page 3/14
https://viewer.zoho.com/docs/sb65p

By The way the whole discussion is under " evidence not tested" You make good point about no absolutes; the question digressed in discussion if you read through you can see where- but still remains the same.

Detectives assumed RZ was having her period and so therefore assumed - all- (?) blood on the scene was related to this. ( also assumed the "" attack" happened in the shower- a lot of assumptions)( i also think during an interview- which I can't find at this moment with Drew Pinsky RZ's sister MZ stated examiners told her differently.) I think this may be where this came from.

Anyway.
I think I give up.
God Bless RZ and MS

IMO
Thanks for the info. Page 14 of the AR states that a pedunculated polyp was present in her uterine cavity. Which could explain the blood within the uterine cavity and explain the absence of a menstruation.

 

[*Lash*]

In search warrant 41227, Det. Brian Patterson states a Toyota Sequoia is parked in the garage. He does not detail another vehicle. The warrant is requesting to include this vehicle in the search AND any other vehicles to be found on the residence. Where is the car Nina mentioned was parked in the driveway when she was at the mansion? Nina did not say parked in the garage. She specifically said driveway. Did Rebecca move her car into the garage after Nina left or were there two vehicles on the property that night?

Warrant - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41227.pdf

Nina - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/nina_romano.mp3

 

[screecher]

Didn't Dina Romano leave Rady with Jonah's car? Perhaps it was his car in the driveway?

 

[bourne]

on the AR page 5/6 read about -the marks on her face ( rare petechaie) and "the anterior portion of her mouth" and more.

This could prove your theory that before she was hung-she was strangled before and /or even possibly also raped orally. I agree with you, maybe the shirt was to cover of that dna and assault. Maybe the shirt tied around her face ) 3 times, and down her throat, was the perp's. and it has -their dried secretions.
:-(
and add that to the impossible suicide. climbing over the iron railing with the rope ligatures, wrists, ankles, oh yeah the neck , and the turquoise t shirt.

(I wish someone had some big horrible injury to give them away re. Lavergne in LA.) which showed the other side of the fight.

RZ had quite a huge amount of injury IMOO. her head, back, shoulder, legs, feet. Right at this moment to me it feels like certain conditions of her accident as impossible to explain as Max's. Is it a coincidence...? She really did "fall from the bedroom!!!!!"
:::THUD:::

Was her death supposed to match his- on some evil level?

MOO I AM NOT naming any suspects pointing any fingers and maybe a stretch...but..maybe RZ surprised , raped, strangled( enough to look like hanging by length of rope), stabbed dragged ( during this time receiving abrasions)........and thrown off that balcony- to copycat poor MS

G-d Bless MS and RZ
and the missing.

I surmise that you hit the nail on the head!

 

[freespeech]

My apologies if this is the wrong place for this question, not sure where to put it.

Why would black gloves be in that bedroom that night?

If Rebecca committed suicide, why would she have brought black gloves into the room with her? I can't think of any plausible reason. If she were planning to commit suicide, why would she want to hide her own fingerprints?

It seems unlikely they would have been left out in the open by someone else who stayed in that room. It only seems logical they were left there by someone else who was interested in hiding their fingerprints.


Also, why were there two knives? Any thoughts?

MOO

I thought that there may have been two people each threatening Rebecca with a knife. Obviously the assailants would have been gloved and possibly suited up. They may have forced her to touch portions of the rope, bed frame and door frame at knife point.

It didn't appear the knives were used to cut the rope. There were no rope shavings on the carpet so apparently the rope was cut else where. I wonder if the case file tells how the rope was cut and measured. It was not discussed during the presser.

 

[freespeech]

Didn't Dina Romano leave Rady with Jonah's car? Perhaps it was his car in the driveway?

There was a Honda SUV in the driveway according the search warrant. In Nina's interview she stated that Jonah had a Honda SUV. She also stated that she drove Jonah's car back to her sister's house the night Rebecca was killed. So when was it parked in the driveway and by whom? A witness identified Dina at the house that night and not Nina. The person was absolutely sure that it was Dina and not Nina. They identified Dina in a photograph.