Explain BDI to me

[borndem]

I agree wholeheartedly, bettybaby. It’s not any one single lie, or one single thing, it’s the totality of all the lies and inexplicable (otherwise) behavior of the Ramseys after the fact. And some of the lies have no purpose if we were to assume someone else came into their home and raped and murdered their child. But in the context of BDI, it all makes sense. We (WS’ers) can debate something back and forth on which action might be most logical under the given circumstances (e.g., sending BR away to the Whites’ house), but as long as everything can be explained to a reasonable degree by the one theory, it should be the most probable.

bbm

That's how I arrived at the BDI theory -- it was the only thing that made sense, or it seemed to make the most sense. BTW I have ordered & am expecting Kolar's book, but I haven't received nor read it yet.

I really liked your theory of events, otg -- much better than mine, and IMO, it would be very difficult to tear it down. Very well thought.

 

[Mysteeri]

I can`t explain the "garrote" either.

I believe JB woke up as she wet the bed (the bedding had urine stains) and changed her own underwear and went to Burke`s room where there was an extra bed for her- she had done that before according to the Bonita papers. Burke was awake or awakened, they decided to go downstairs and eat something and play with their toys- it was Christmas night. They ate the pineapple, Burke gave a little to JB (his fingerprints were on the bowl). Then they went to the basement/Burke`s train room to "play"..I can only get this far.

I too believe that PR/JR actions are best explained in BDI scenario. But other than Patsy writing the ransom note, it`s difficult to say- or understand- who did exactly what.

 

[DeeDee249]

I don't think JB would have changed her own underwear and out the wet longjohns back on. Regardless, one pair of underwear she did NOT put on was the size 12s. Despite what Patsy claimed, they were never in her panty drawer. Police took every pair in there and NONE were size 12, and besides Patsy sent the remaining 6 pairs (of the 7-pair set) still in their package- to LE 5 years later, long after they moved to Atlanta, claiming they had been found in a box. Guess no one ever asked her how they were still in the package or were in her drawer when LE took every pair in the drawer into evidence.

 

[Meara]

If your version of events is close to what actually transpired, it now makes perfect sense why BR didn't squeal. No way a 9-year old kid is going to admit anything to anyone if he was under the impression that he faced arrest and some serious time behind bars for the "crime" of "incest" (which directly lead to a family member's death).

I dunno, just a random thought I had. I even wonder if that dogeared dictionary page is merely a coincidence, or just hearsay.

expat, I wondered at one time, too. Here's the pertinent the passage from Steve Thomas's book:

When we checked the photos from a big manila envelope marked as evidence item #85KKY, I almost fell out of my chair, and Peck inhaled in sharp surprise. A picture showed Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary on a coffee table in the first floor study, the corner of the lower left-hand page sharply creased and pointing like an arrow to the word incest.

 

[Mysteeri]

I don't think JB would have changed her own underwear and out the wet longjohns back on. Regardless, one pair of underwear she did NOT put on was the size 12s. Despite what Patsy claimed, they were never in her panty drawer. Police took every pair in there and NONE were size 12, and besides Patsy sent the remaining 6 pairs (of the 7-pair set) still in their package- to LE 5 years later, long after they moved to Atlanta, claiming they had been found in a box. Guess no one ever asked her how they were still in the package or were in her drawer when LE took every pair in the drawer into evidence.

BBM. True. But I`m not sure what she was wearing if/when she went to bed.

Edit. I Removed a question because it was answered.

Okay I read from another thread that there were partially unwrapped gifts in the basement and that one of them may have contained the size 12 panties. But why would Patsy or John go through the trouble of opening the wrappings and finding oversized panties for JB? Actually if unopened gifts were in the basement I would not be surprised if the kids went there to have a peek, I did that as a kid..

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I don't think JB would have changed her own underwear and out the wet longjohns back on. Regardless, one pair of underwear she did NOT put on was the size 12s. Despite what Patsy claimed, they were never in her panty drawer. Police took every pair in there and NONE were size 12, and besides Patsy sent the remaining 6 pairs (of the 7-pair set) still in their package- to LE 5 years later, long after they moved to Atlanta, claiming they had been found in a box. Guess no one ever asked her how they were still in the package or were in her drawer when LE took every pair in the drawer into evidence.

So, I'm assuming we don't know where the package of size 12 panties was located in the house, do we?

 

[Meara]

Something else I've wondered -- Did a non-Ramsey dogear the dictionary page on Dec. 26 to tip off police? Fleet or Priscilla White, for instance?

Here's the section of Patsy's DBA interview in June 1998 that, as far as I know, has never been pursued or explained.

[ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9945"]Patsy Ramsey BDA interview - June 23, 1998 - Forums For Justice[/ame]


....and then when we were in
15 Atlanta, I just sort of remember Priscilla
16 standing in my mother's living room, family
17 room, you know, just kind of like this and
18 saying, "well, I know what's going on" and she
19 said, "if you would give me a few minutes of
20 your time, I could let you in on some things."
21 And I turned to her and I said,
22 "Priscilla, how can you know so much?" And I
23 said, "I am the mother of this child. And I
24 know nothing."
25 TOM HANEY: What was she referring
0076
1 to?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't have a clue.
3 I really, I mean, you know, so many times I wish
4 I would have taken her up on it to see what the
5 hell she was talking about.


So do we, Patsy, so do we.

 

[DeeDee249]

BBM. True. But I`m not sure what she was wearing if/when she went to bed.

Edit. I Removed a question because it was answered.

Okay I read from another thread that there were partially unwrapped gifts in the basement and that one of them may have contained the size 12 panties. But why would Patsy or John go through the trouble of opening the wrappings and finding oversized panties for JB? Actually if unopened gifts were in the basement I would not be surprised if the kids went there to have a peek, I did that as a kid..

Why? Patsy/JR needed clean panties to re-dress JB that night. These size 12s were handy right there in the basement, wrapped as a gift for JB's cousin Jenny (whom Patsy admitted they were bought for). To get JB's own panties, a trip up to her bed/bathroom would be needed, and regardless of BR's involvement that night, I believe he played no part in the staging. Also, according to police ALL of JB's own panties were stained with fecal stains. I strongly feel, no matter what stress she was under that night after this horrific event, Patsy would NOT put stained undies on her daughter. (remember what your mother always said about always being sure to wear clean undies in case you were in an accident? ALL mother feel this way. The size 12s were brand NEW. No fecal stains.
As far as JB's own stained panties- there is no excuse for this, IMO. Typical laundering won't always remove fecal staining, but chlorine bleach will. Trouble is, most little girls' panties are colored or printed. And you wouldn't use bleach on those. If it were me, I'd only be buying white undies for any kid who stained theirs.

 

[Mysteeri]

Yes I understand that they needed clean underwear- I just assumed that surely she had some of her own in her room, but I guess not, huh?

 

[DeeDee249]

Yes I understand that they needed clean underwear- I just assumed that surely she had some of her own in her room, but I guess not, huh?

Lets put it this way...she had laundered undies in her drawer. But they were all stained. So I guess some would still consider them clean because they had been washed but the stains didn't come out. The impression I get of Patsy is that she would not have wanted JB to be seen wearing stained undies. So she used a brand NEW pair, which happened to be right there in the basement, wrapped to be sent to her niece.

 

[Mysteeri]

Lets put it this way...she had laundered undies in her drawer. But they were all stained. So I guess some would still consider them clean because they had been washed but the stains didn't come out. The impression I get of Patsy is that she would not have wanted JB to be seen wearing stained undies. So she used a brand NEW pair, which happened to be right there in the basement, wrapped to be sent to her niece.

Uh-hum, except that the new ones were too big. Because of this I have assumed that someone else than Patsy put them on.

Edit. Or perhaps the decision was just done in a hurry. PR remembered the new panties in a present and John put them on, as fibers consistent with his black shirt were found inside the panties.

 

[Charterhouse]

I think that PR selected those undies because they had Wed. on them. I think she thought someone would have noticed.
Was it just luck she took the Wed undies out of the new package? I don't think it was.

 

[AnaTeresa]

I think that PR selected those undies because they had Wed. on them. I think she thought someone would have noticed.
Was it just luck she took the Wed undies out of the new package? I don't think it was.

So your theory is that she specifically selected those to provide a clue as to who hurt/killed JonBenet? Not criticizing, just don't understand where you're going here.

 

[Tawny]

So your theory is that she specifically selected those to provide a clue as to who hurt/killed JonBenet? Not criticizing, just don't understand where you're going here.

I think the intent was to hide that the undies were different. JBR was (I think) wearing undies that said "Wednesday" on them all day, so if someone saw those undies (like helped her wipe, or something) and then later it came out they were different, it would be "suspicious." I don't think anyone would have noticed that, but I see the... "logic"... if that were the case.

 

[UKGuy]

I think that PR selected those undies because they had Wed. on them. I think she thought someone would have noticed.
Was it just luck she took the Wed undies out of the new package? I don't think it was.

Charterhouse,
Do you not think, given the circumstances, whomever was redressing JonBenet should select a Wednesday pair?

The biq question is why select size-12's and where from?


If the size-12's had been gift-wrapped and stored down in the basement then they would be available to any R, including BR.

The size-12's were placed on JonBenet prior to ligature asphyxiation, so were they already upstairs? Kolar suggests the gifts in the wine-cellar had already been opened earlier on Christmas day?

So if the size-12's were available on Christmas night, patently they were not loaded onto JR's plane!


.

 

[Tawny]

I thought they were intended to be mailed to the niece.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I think that PR selected those undies because they had Wed. on them. I think she thought someone would have noticed.
Was it just luck she took the Wed undies out of the new package? I don't think it was.

Perhaps those undies were selected 'cause they weren't stained, and they had the prestigious Bloomingdale's name on them? To top it off, they were designer-like embroidered with the day of the week. These are "fancy-pants", so to speak!

....and they were handy being they were in the basement....

 

[UKGuy]

I thought they were intended to be mailed to the niece.

Tawny,
I think thats what Patsy said. Yet they were still in the House on 12/25/1996. So did she completely forget she bought the underwear, so recently. Also she likely purchased JonBenet Bloomingdales in her size.


.

 

[UKGuy]

Perhaps those undies were selected 'cause they weren't stained, and they had the prestigious Bloomingdale's name on them? To top it off, they were designer-like embroidered with the day of the week. These are "fancy-pants", so to speak!

....and they were handy being they were in the basement....

ATasteOfHoney,

Maybe , maybe not. We do not know for certain if Patsy purchased Bloomingdales for JonBenet, she was present when she selected the size-12's?


I seriously doubt it was anything to do with stains. Probably the size-6's were covered in forensic evidence, else why not leave them on?

So someone might have replaced them with the size-12's simply because they had Wednesday on them, yet where were they in the house, who knew about them?


.

 

[Tawny]

Tawny,
I think thats what Patsy said. Yet they were still in the House on 12/25/1996. So did she completely forget she bought the underwear, so recently. Also she likely purchased JonBenet Bloomingdales in her size.


.

I've always raised a eyebrow at buying panties for a kid that isn't your own, but that could just be me. :floorlaugh: