Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #7

[ferretnurse]

After searching, I found the following regarding suctioning:

"- After tonsillectomy, suction equipment should be available, but suctioning is not performed unless there is an airway obstruction because of the risk of trauma to the oropharynx. Monitoring for bleeding is an important nursing intervention following any type of surgery. Milk and milk products are avoided initially because they coat the throat, cause the child to clear the throat, and increase the risk of bleeding. Clear, cool liquids are encouraged."

http://www.nclexpinoy.com/2010/05/nclex-practice-examtest-level-of_31.html

Thanks for this. I knew I remembered this from nursing school, but I couldn't find my book.

 

[Soulmagent]

I'm not clear on why organ donation is an issue in this case, but that article doesn't really argue against donation.

It doesnt I suppose but I wondered why Jahi was put back on the vent after they took her off to see if she was breathing. So I found the purpose of this in searching.

After reseaching I found life support is put back on people declared brain dead for the purpose of donating the organs. She was brian dead and she was not breathing.

Why did the hospital put Jahi on life support?

 

[vlpate]

The more articles I read ,the worse I feel about the whole organ donation issue.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052970204603004577269910906351598

It makes me wonder if Jahi mother was approached by someone about the issue.

The exam for brain death is simple. A doctor splashes ice water in your ears (to look for shivering in the eyes), pokes your eyes with a cotton swab and checks for any gag reflex, among other rudimentary tests. It takes less time than a standard eye exam.

Really?? Also, this author assumes people who click "organ donor" on their DL are irresponsible idiots. I'm not sure what his point is in even mentioning the DL choice. If I have 'organ donor' clicked on the back of my DL, are they going to splash water in my ears and snatch my lungs? There are more responsible, informative pieces to read on the topic of organ donation. JMO

 

[vlpate]

It doesnt I suppose but I wondered why Jahi was put back on the vent after they took her off to see if she was breathing. So I found the purpose of this in searching.

After reseaching I found life support is put back on people declared brain dead for the purpose of donating the organs. She was brian dead and she was not breathing.

Why did the hospital put Jahi on life support?

To give her family time to say goodbye...............................................

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

It doesnt I suppose but I wondered why Jahi was put back on the vent after they took her off to see if she was breathing. So I found the purpose of this in searching.

After reseaching I found life support is put back on people declared brain dead for the purpose of donating the organs. She was brian dead and she was not breathing.

Why did the hospital put Jahi on life support?

I've read through out many of these threads that hospitals will do this to allow families some time to say goodbye.

 

[meanmaryjean]

It doesnt I suppose but I wondered why Jahi was put back on the vent after they took her off to see if she was breathing. So I found the purpose of this in searching.

After reseaching I found life support is put back on people declared brain dead for the purpose of donating the organs. She was brian dead and she was not breathing.

Why did the hospital put Jahi on life support?

They put her on it during the resuscitation effort. Brain death determination takes many hours - you don't not put someone on the vent because you think they MIGHT be brain dead- you treat them as aggressively as you can until said determination is made.

The apnea test for brain death is not a final or exclusive test. MANY different tests are made by more than one physician independently of one another. So, for example, for the apnea test, one disconnects the breathing tube from the ventilator for a minute or so to observe for respiratory effort. If none is made, the tube is reconnected while other tests are done. The apnea test doe NOT mean the breathing tube is removed from the airway. Hope this clears that up for you.

 

[vlpate]

I'm not clear on why organ donation is an issue in this case, but that article doesn't really argue against donation.

I think it has something to do with the case only because some are saying Doctors are too quick to pronounce patients brain dead in order to harvest their organs. Illogical, of course, but this has been brought up many times in social media and comments on related articles. I've never heard the family say anything like this though. JMO

 

[Egghead]

In light of all of the discussion about how the media and newspeople are not reporting events and the medical situation accurately, I found this article (especially the bit I've quoted below) today positively refreshing.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ticize-treatment-brain-dead-patients/4394173/

Both Caplan and McCullough were critical of the unnamed medical facility that agreed to put Jahi's body on a ventilator. "What could they be thinking?" McCullough says. "Their thinking must be disordered, from a medical point of view. ... There is a word for this: crazy."

Caplan agrees: "You can't really feed a corpse."

McCullough says he worries about the emotional, spiritual and financial damage that the parents will suffer. "Insurance doesn't pay for dead people," McCullough says. He also worries about the psychological effect of seeing the the girl's body, which is already said to be deteriorating, continue to break down. "Are there some living cells in the body? Not all the cells die at once. It takes time. But her body will start to break down and decay. It's a matter of when, not whether."

 

[Nore]

The latest developments in this situation have me completely dumbfounded and depressed. A trach and a g tube? :scared:

I so wish the hospital could tell its side of the story, but I know that HIPPA must prevent that from happening. That children's hospital has a good reputation, and I can't imagine what the medical professionals working there must be experiencing right now. :facepalm:

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I am sorry for them too. They cannot say BOO. I wonder so about the gtube and trach..I am very familiar with both from my sons stroke. Suctioning also. I wonder if " food"will just back up. I am sure (beyond sure) it will not digest. This is truly so sad. :seeya:

Yes God answers prayers, sometimes he says NO..

 

[BeginnersLuck]

It doesnt I suppose but I wondered why Jahi was put back on the vent after they took her off to see if she was breathing. So I found the purpose of this in searching.

After reseaching I found life support is put back on people declared brain dead for the purpose of donating the organs. She was brian dead and she was not breathing.

Why did the hospital put Jahi on life support?

She would have been put on the ventilator because they didn't yet know that she was brain dead. That had to be determined before removal of the ventilator.

Then they allow family a short time to say goodbye.

The article you linked is written by an author. He has a book and he promotes it. Here is a response to what he has said.

http://lifelineofohio.org/2012/03/a-response-to-dick-teresis-claims-about-brain-death/

 

[Karmady]

I'm not clear on why organ donation is an issue in this case, but that article doesn't really argue against donation.

It's not. There's not been one word about organ donation from the family or the hospital in all of this time. No way, no how, this mother considered organ donation. She's not even convinced that her child is dead, despite irrefutable, unanimous and unimpeachable medical evidence to the contrary.

all jmo

 

[janx]

Even with HIPPA....I think the family can allow them to discuss the case...or no?

I don't know, but I can't imagine that the family would want them to. Something happened in (the RR?), and we've heard almost nothing from the hospital.

Now, Jahi's earthly house is supposed to be at some other "facility," but I honestly don't know how that would be legal. the implication is that it's a medical facility...?

 

[ferretnurse]

Ugh, I really don't want to live on this planet anymore...

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...draise-20140109,0,4457373.story#axzz2pr0IipU6

 

[janx]

----------
I am sorry for them too. They cannot say BOO. I wonder so about the gtube and trach..I am very familiar with both from my sons stroke. Suctioning also. I wonder if " food"will just back up. I am sure (beyond sure) it will not digest. This is truly so sad. :seeya:

Yes God answers prayers, sometimes he says NO..

Right...It cannot be digested because the brain stem is kaput. :facepalm:

 

[Nore]

Hi, I wonder if keeping Jahi on life support so long would make a difference in organs. I suspect deteriouration (sp) in major organs. :seeya:

 

[newmrsc]

Ugh, I really don't want to live on this planet anymore...

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...draise-20140109,0,4457373.story#axzz2pr0IipU6

How convenient that Dolan just happens to be on the board of a group fighting the 250k cap....considering that by his own account he contacted the family, I'm going to have to disagree with Uncle O that he did it completely out of the goodness of his heart. I understand we all look out for our own interests to some degree, but call a spade a spade? jmo

 

[Yoda]

"Ethicists criticize treatment of brain-dead patients"
There are no ethical issues in the care of someone who is brain-dead, because the patient is now a corpse, McCullough says. "Orders should have been immediately written to discontinue all life support," says McCullough, who has no personal knowledge of Jahi's case. "The family should have been allowed to spend some time with the body if they wished. And then her body should have been sent to the morgue. That is straightforward. There is no ethical debate about that."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ticize-treatment-brain-dead-patients/4394173/

 

[Leilei]

Quick legal question before I head to bed. If the family decides to sue for pain and suffering, wouldn't they have to present medical documentation from Jahi's current doctor(s)? With the attorney and the uncle both saying conflicting things about her condition (doing great, stable, then "not going to make it", to doing great again), I would think that the court or jury would find it all pretty inconsistent. Also, if they claim mental and emotional anguish (for themselves), would it not be prudent to have documentation from mental health professionals sooner rather than later? Of course, we don't know if they are getting help for an obviously traumatic experience or not. I actually hope that the mother is.

Just some late-night pondering. I'll look for replies in the morning. Night, all!

 

[MsSeal]

A passionate Dr. Drew

http://edition.cnn.com/video/?/vide.../10/hln-drew-jahi-mcmath-brain-dead-panel.hln

 

[newmrsc]

Quick legal question before I head to bed. If the family decides to sue for pain and suffering, wouldn't they have to present medical documentation from Jahi's current doctor(s)? With the attorney and the uncle both saying conflicting things about her condition (doing great, stable, then "not going to make it", to doing great again), I would think that the court or jury would find it all pretty inconsistent. Also, if they claim mental and emotional anguish (for themselves), would it not be prudent to have documentation from mental health professionals sooner rather than later? Of course, we don't know if they are getting help for an obviously traumatic experience or not. I actually hope that the mother is.

Just some late-night pondering. I'll look for replies in the morning. Night, all!

I'm a little confused about how they'll proceed because the mom agreed to be responsible, but what's the scope of that? I think pain and suffering will be limited to time at CHO because once she was legally dead, their continued efforts are their own choosing and basically outside the law. I don't think what's happening now SHOULD be considered at all in terms of a possible award. Jmo