FL - Harold Lima, 21 mos, dies in hot truck, Stuart, 10 Aug 2006

[welder 79]

Myself I believe our system has to take some of the blame.. There was a time when the father could make enough money to support the mother and up to 4 kid's and live a good life not fancy but a good life..Now day's it just about take's both parent's working just to support a family,,, the kid's is not getting the value's and what's right and wrong from there parent's now day's. and this is cause a lot of problem's with our young kid's now day's because they never had no guidance on what is right and wrong,, they are growed up in front of a TV or playing video game's on TV.. While the father and mother is working 12 hour's a day 6 day's a week just to support there family's...I really had a Boss tell me you don't go to church every Sunday why don't I put you on the 7 day crew and look at all the money you make...I work any where from 72 to in the 90's hour's a week after I made it to around 70 some hour's I would only draw about 30 to 40 dollar's a shift.. taxes would take the rest that's a big drop that what my regular daily pay was $210. dollar's a shift but my work was very dangerous that's why I was payed so good.. but I just looked at him and laughed and walked away...Big company's do this to keep from hire other worker's because It's cheaper to hire only 1 man and work him to death then hire someone else and do the same thing...If we had a 40 to 48 hour Federal Law work week that would atleast double the good paying job's in this country,, and our Min Wage & Law now is a disgrace to our hard working citizen's...

 

[Sundayrain]

I think if people are going to forget their children in cars....as we are reading here......then someone should make the "Harold" device.
There was an alarm on a truck today, that a child and Mom were already in, that was so loud you could hear it miles away. I never left a child in a car, you probably didn't but.......someone out there has.
I really think even a soft sound would work. It sounds and the person looks back and sees their child. Rather then the hectic schedule that is on their mind. Or the out of the ordinary route they took that day.
Once when I was at the grocery store. I happened to see the car next to me had two children in the back seat. One was only maybe 3 1/2 the other twoish..... They were hugging each other. The little boy was consoling the two year old girl. I was stunned.......I sat there watching and wondering what to do. I was timing this....I was praying for someone to show up. Finally, I came to my senses and knew I had to go in the store and have the person paged. ( I know I really should have called 911....and now, no doubt I would)......Then,
she came.....very slowly......very well dressed....very high heels.....
and saying....."ok, sweeties, I'll be right there" as she proceeded to open the trunk and put the groceries in. ( this was a large grocery store) I said some words I know she didn't hear.......and left after she got into the car. I know their little cheeks were getting red. I really totally think it was a babysitter, I saw no motherly care, actions, etc.
I always felt badly that I didn't do the right thing and go into the store or call 911 immediately. If I could do it over again.......I'd know better. I think I was just so stunned. These two little angels, left in that hot car. Even if the window was cracked, and I don't recall that now....it wouldn't have been enough.
I have never come across that again......if I did.....hummmmm...you don't even want to know......I can't even go there..........

But, in anycase yes.....just a little, even music sounding device.
Who wants to make one?

PS....No pups in cars either.....they die very often, and very quickly in cars.

 

[southcitymom]

There is no such thing as perfect parenting. On a daily basis, tragedies befall families that put their children's safety first.

 

[Sundayrain]

There is no such thing as perfect parenting. On a daily basis, tragedies befall families that put their children's safety first.

I totally agree with you southcitymom.....
I also think that one, small, safety device......if it saves only one tiny life....is worth it being invented.

 

[Beyond Belief]

i WONDER IF IT COULD BE PROGRAMED RIGHT INTO THE CAR BRAIN ALONG WITH THE OTHER WARNING SOUNDS. door buzzer, keys, lights on, etc.

 

[Amraann]

I totally agree with you southcitymom.....
I also think that one, small, safety device......if it saves only one tiny life....is worth it being invented.

Although I agree with this in theory I have to ask ...
Isn't this just a bandaide for a much more serious problem?
The problem we are seeing over and over is that parents are forgetting their children.
IMO this needs to be addressed. Even fixing this one risk will not fix the overall problem which will certainly lead to other dangers. If a child can be forgotten in the car then where else??

 

[southcitymom]

Although I agree with this in theory I have to ask ...
Isn't this just a bandaide for a much more serious problem?
The problem we are seeing over and over is that parents are forgetting their children.
IMO this needs to be addressed. Even fixing this one risk will not fix the overall problem which will certainly lead to other dangers. If a child can be forgotten in the car then where else??

The larger problem, if you will, seems to be having so much on our minds that we forget the obvious. It is sad and I don't know the solution. A lot of times, when I get into a car, I go on automatic pilot. For some reason, I am more likely to space out in a car than in other places.

Even if a bandaide could stop one child from suffering this type of death, I would be happy for that bandaide.

 

[MagicRose99]

A "Warning Device" isn't an answer... it's an excuse. The first time someone leaves a child in a car and the device fails it'll be law suit city. It isn't up to a car manufacturer or a device manufacturer to remind parents that their child is in the car. It's ultimately, ALWAYS ultimately, up to the parent to remember they have their child with them...

I have raise 3 children from infancy to young adulthood. Never once, no matter how much was on my mind or how much of a hurry I was in, did I ever forget my child was with me. A child is a precious treasure and should be guarded and protected as such.

 

[southcitymom]

A "Warning Device" isn't an answer... it's an excuse. The first time someone leaves a child in a car and the device fails it'll be law suit city. It isn't up to a car manufacturer or a device manufacturer to remind parents that their child is in the car. It's ultimately, ALWAYS ultimately, up to the parent to remember they have their child with them...

If a warning device saved one life, it would be an answer for that child.

I could not agree more that it's not the responsibility of a car manufacturer to protect a child. Ultimately, human caretakers must do that.

Still, every time I read about a child being left in a car like this or a child being backed over by a car, I do think - could that child have been saved if an additional safety precaution existed? Humans are just that - human...and accidents happen.

 

[CyberLaw]

It is similar to a child drowning. You are surposed to be "within" arms length of your child when you are swimming. Even though there are lifeguards etc, you MUST be the primary person to safe guard you childs' life.

BUT, there has been many circumstances when a parents "has turned" their back on the child for seconds, and the child has "gone under". Now the parent "had no idea" that it takes "mere seconds" for a child to go under, they were unaware that a child can drown that quickly. They had no idea that by turning their head for seconds can lead to their child drowning.

So the parent did not fail as a parent, it was a "mistake".

That is where the lifeguard(we will call him Harold) comes in.

Harold now knows there is a mistake has been made and jumps in because HE realizes the seriousness of the sitaution and the parent made a mistake. The parent did not realize the mistake they made or the situation they created by this one "moment" of inattention or that they are risking the life of their child.

Harold rescues the child the child lives, MOM learns a very valuable lesson that she will never repeat. Her child almost died because she turned her back to look to see where the clock was. Next time(she thanked God there will be a next time) she takes her kids swimming, she will never, ever turn her back on him/them even for a few seconds.

So for 364 days a parent takes their child out of the car. On the 365 day they make a "mistake" and rush out. Well Harold will ensure that this mistake will not be fatal, Harold will step in "point out the mistake, that the parent is not aware of. The alarm will be the secondary factor, the parent will be the first factor.

Harold will act as a "failsafe" method when it comes to safety, the parent is expected and rightly so to be the primary person when it comes to the safety of children.

How many very responsible, intelligent parent has lost the life of their child because the child has "made one mistake" or the parent in one moment of inattention has made a mistake and their child has died.

This is one situaton that we know a child will die without a "failsafe" safety method. It has happened before and I am loathe to say, will happen again.

 

[southcitymom]

It is similar to a child drowning. You are surposed to be "within" arms length of your child when you are swimming. Even though there are lifeguards etc, you MUST be the primary person to safe guard you childs' life.

BUT, there has been many circumstances when a parents "has turned" their back on the child for seconds, and the child has "gone under". Now the parent "had no idea" that it takes "mere seconds" for a child to go under, they were unaware that a child can drown that quickly. They had no idea that by turning their head for seconds can lead to their child drowning.

So the parent did not fail as a parent, it was a "mistake".

That is where the lifeguard(we will call him Harold) comes in.

Harold now knows there is a mistake has been made and jumps in because HE realizes the seriousness of the sitaution and the parent made a mistake. The parent did not realize the mistake they made or the situation they created by this one "moment" of inattention or that they are risking the life of their child.

Harold rescues the child the child lives, MOM learns a very valuable lesson that she will never repeat. Her child almost died because she turned her back to look to see where the clock was. Next time(she thanked God there will be a next time) she takes her kids swimming, she will never, ever turn her back on him/them even for a few seconds.

So for 364 days a parent takes their child out of the car. On the 365 day they make a "mistake" and rush out. Well Harold will ensure that this mistake will not be fatal, Harold will step in "point out the mistake, that the parent is not aware of. The alarm will be the secondary factor, the parent will be the first factor.

Harold will act as a "failsafe" method when it comes to safety, the parent is expected and rightly so to be the primary person when it comes to the safety of children.

How many very responsible, intelligent parent has lost the life of their child because the child has "made one mistake" or the parent in one moment of inattention has made a mistake and their child has died.

This is one situaton that we know a child will die without a "failsafe" safety method. It has happened before and I am loathe to say, will happen again.

Great post. I like the analogy a lot.

 

[Sundayrain]

Great post. I like the analogy a lot.

Cyberlaw....Yes......exactly......Your wording was quite perfect.
"Harold" is the failsafe device. Like the airbag......we don't want the airbag
to have to work, but if ever we need it, its there.
We'd hope "harold" didn't ever need to sound off......but, if one little life could be saved on a hot summer day.... You said it all.....need I say more.
PS Now we need the inventor

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Cyberlaw....Yes......exactly......Your wording was quite perfect.
"Harold" is the failsafe device. Like the airbag......we don't want the airbag
to have to work, but if ever we need it, its there.
We'd hope "harold" didn't ever need to sound off......but, if one little life could be saved on a hot summer day.... You said it all.....need I say more.
PS Now we need the inventor

This terminology is where the problem arises. Using the word "failsafe" to describe anything is a recipe for disaster. As soon as parents feel as though they can let down their guard, as they would undoubtedly do having a device they thought was "failsafe," is the time when something on the device would fail and their child would be injured or killed. Then, who is to blame? Not the parent, right? So, they sue the person who invented the device and the company who made it. Thus, relieving them from responsibility for the death of their child, but also getting rich after winning a lawsuit and the company takes a hit so hard that no other inventor would want to come up with a product such as this because of the liability. The only thing that is "failsafe" when it comes to kids being left in cars is for the person driving that car to take five seconds out of their busy schedule to look in the backseat to make sure they didn't leave their kid back there. That's not a lot to ask. I'm sure any of the parents who have accidentally left their child back there to die now have plenty of time to look back, right?

 

[Beyond Belief]

http://www.tcpalm.com/tcp/local_news/article/0,2545,TCP_16736_4917362,00.html



On Monday, Salnick said Lima's case was strikingly similar to that of Dr. Dennis Sierra, who pleaded guilty to aggravated manslaughter for leaving his 3-year-old son, Andres, in a sport-utility vehicle outside his practice west of Boca Raton in 2004. With Salnick leading the defense, Sierra was sentenced to 10 years of probation and 500 hours of community service.

Adjudication of guilt was withheld, meaning Sierra had no felony conviction so he could keep his dental practice.

"This woman is going to be branded as a criminal when she's really a loving mother and is devastated," Salnick said. "It was horrible for her. It was horrible."

In the wake of Sierra's case, Salnick said such a tragedy is unfortunately common.

"It is much more of a common occurrence than people realize, and it happens to busy professionals," he said. "It happens to hard-working people."

Lima told Stuart police she dropped her daughter Jessica, 6, at Port Salerno Elementary School but forgot to drop Harold at day care because he was soundly sleeping in the car seat behind her.

"I can tell you from experience that any defense in a case like this centers around what is negligent versus what is accidental," Salnick said. A manslaughter charge hinges

 

[Beyond Belief]

After some discussion with some others today, we think maybe a sensor in the carseat itself would be the direction to go in. These special carseats of course could be purchased at any store. It was suggested the sensor/tone would be trigger much like the ones in hospital beds that have patients get out of their beds when they shouldn't get up, the sensor signals the nurses station that the patient is out of bed.

Just another idea.

 

[SewingDeb]

After some discussion with some others today, we think maybe a sensor in the carseat itself would be the direction to go in. These special carseats of course could be purchased at any store. It was suggested the sensor/tone would be trigger much like the ones in hospital beds that have patients get out of their beds when they shouldn't get up, the sensor signals the nurses station that the patient is out of bed.

Just another idea.

Great idea! Maybe this should be required in all carseats.

 

[SewingDeb]

Several people I have talked to say this mother must have been on drugs to forget her child. Just throwing that out there because I have no way of knowing if it is true or not.

 

[southcitymom]

Several people I have talked to say this mother must have been on drugs to forget her child. Just throwing that out there because I have no way of knowing if it is true or not.

I certainly don't have enough information to make the determination whether or not the mother in this case was on drugs. One would think that whoever is investigating the incident would consider that possibility and uncover what facts they could regarding its veracity.

However, this type of thing happens enough for me to doubt that all or even most of the parents it happens to are on drugs. I would love for some type of failsafe to be in place for cases like this, because it seems to me a particularly gruesome way to perish.

A failsafe is something that "compensates automatically and safely for a failure" not something that takes the place of human responsibility. I'm not clever enough to know what type of failsafe might work best - both a sensor in the seat or some type of car alarm sound like they could work.

Of course, there is always the chance that litigious people will try to blame mechanical errors for failures they have made - I would be more than willing to let the Courts handle that. If a device like this saved the life of a child or two or twenty, I think the residual headaches of potential lawsuits it might bring about would be worth it.

 

[SewingDeb]

I agree with you southcitymom. Most of the people in the news for forgetting kids have been busy professionals---maybe they just have their prioritys out of whack, but man what a wake-up call!

I'm all for a failsafe system. I think it would have to be federally mandated because most won't believe they need a reminder.

 

[close_enough]

I swear I am so tired of seeing this kind of stuff. Am I the only person who thinks about their child on and off all day long? I mean for crying out loud how do you forget a child? Please someone help me understand? I mean there has to be something to do to put a stop to this!!!!

no you're not....this sounds like drugs are involved...crack, meth, crank, or whatever you want to call it....