"G (Guilty)" vs "NG (Not Guilty)" Where do you stand? #2

[Wudge]

Did ya think to inquire with the State's AG? If you're not too busy...otherwise I'll try to get to it this week. (seriously!)

Be my guest.

 

[Wudge]

1st degree murder (degree of felony murder) can be punishable by death or life imprisonment. That is all I can find. I hate reading court cases and opinions.

What 2009 statute in Florida so says?

No statute that I can find in chapters 782 or 775 (or anywhere else) state that to be true.

 

[MissJames]

No. My position -- wrongful conviction on the murder one charge -- is based on the evidence that we know of, which is lacking in highly reliable inculpatory evidence that could support premises necessary to reach a highly reliable conclusion of guilt.

But you said.......oh forget it.Waste of my energy,huge waste.

 

[mydailyopinions]

What 2009 statute in Florida so says?

No statute that I can find in chapters 782 nor 775 (or anywhere else) state that to be true.)

Easiest way to learn the truth is to call up the state attorney's office and ask for the statute....
I think I'll do that first thing in the morning!

 

[Bittiness39]

What 2009 statute in Florida so says?

No statute that I can find in chapters 782 or 775 (or anywhere else) state that to be true.

Not sure...here is a link to what I did find...still digging:

http://standdown.typepad.com/weblog/2009/10/florida-revises-death-penalty-jury-instruction.html

Below is a quote I cut/pasted from the link above:

By a 4-3 split the justices also rejected proposals for juries to fill out two special verdict forms showing whether they found a defendant guilty of premeditated or felony murder - both punishable by death - and explaining why they recommend a death sentence.

 

[Bittiness39]

No. My position -- wrongful conviction on the murder one charge -- is based on the evidence that we know of, which is lacking in highly reliable inculpatory evidence that could support premises necessary to reach a highly reliable conclusion of guilt.

Which is why, thankfully, we have this lovely forum to debate. None of us are going to wind up on the jury...so it is IMHO okay to weigh what we have and draw conclusions from it. With every piece of evidence we get we have the opportunity to commune online to discuss said evidence. I see nothing wrong with that. :croc:

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

In California criminal juries must be unanimous in their decision, is that true in this case?

 

[MissJames]

In California criminal juries must be unanimous in their decision, is that true in this case?

If it's not unanimous it's a hung jury and the State can try her again.And she can sit in jail while they do.

 

[Wudge]

Not sure...here is a link to what I did find...still digging:

http://standdown.typepad.com/weblog/2009/10/florida-revises-death-penalty-jury-instruction.html

Below is a quote I cut/pasted from the link above:

By a 4-3 split the justices also rejected proposals for juries to fill out two special verdict forms showing whether they found a defendant guilty of premeditated or felony murder - both punishable by death - and explaining why they recommend a death sentence.

I'll trade links. Try finding the death penalty being available for felony murder here.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Index&Title_Request=XLVI#TitleXLVI

 

[Bittiness39]

If it's not unanimous it's a hung jury and the State can try her again.And she can sit in jail while they do.

Which is why I begrudgingly thank KC for unintentionally allowing me to befriend people online in this very forum.

Oh, and by the way, I think she is Guilty. JMO. :woohoo:

 

[Bittiness39]

I'll trade links. Try finding the death penalty being available for felony murder here.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Index&Title_Request=XLVI#TitleXLVI

Here? Meaning Florida? What I basically have found is numerous DP attorney websites indicating on their information page that felony murder (1st Degree) is punishable by death. I admit that this is like a swamp of confusing information but it appears from all I have read that the DP is an option in a felony murder case. In Florida. And even though I am personally against the DP...unless Florida decides to change its policy on the DP before the trial...if convicted...it can be applied to Miss...Anthony.

 

[Wudge]

Which is why, thankfully, we have this lovely forum to debate. None of us are going to wind up on the jury...so it is IMHO okay to weigh what we have and draw conclusions from it. With every piece of evidence we get we have the opportunity to commune online to discuss said evidence. I see nothing wrong with that. :croc:

I don't agree. I don't come close to agreeing. Unlike Kipling's "Law of the Jungle", our laws are not meant to run forward and back.

Dropping the presumption of innocence and engaging in rank speculation is seriously bad form. If people want an impartial trial and the presumption of innocence to be there for themselves and their family (should they ever need it), they need to protect it at all costs. Rights (and lives) can easily erode if they're not diligantly protected from the pack.


[reference]

LAW OF THE JUNGLE

Now this is the Law of the Jungle-
as old and as true as the sky;
And the Wolf that shall keep it may prosper,
but the Wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree trunk,
the Law runneth foward and back-
For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf,
and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.

Rudyard Kipling

 

[Bittiness39]

I don't agree. I don't come close to agreeing. Unlike Kipling's "Law of the Jungle", our laws are not meant to run forward and back.

Dropping the presumption of innocence and engaging in rank speculation is seriously bad form. If people want an impartial trial and the presumption of innocence to be there for themselves and their family (should they ever need it), they need to protect it at all costs. Rights (and lives) can easily erode if they're not diligantly protected from the pack.


[reference]

LAW OF THE JUNGLE

Now this is the Law of the Jungle-
as old and as true as the sky;
And the Wolf that shall keep it may prosper,
but the Wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree trunk,
the Law runneth foward and back-
For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf,
and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.

Rudyard Kipling

I understand your view point but in all sincerity we have a forum to debate and not railroad people. Everyone is entitled to speculate even in the privacy of their own home. If this speculation is somehow unfair to the defendent in terms of getting a fair trial that is unfortunate. But we are allowed, within the confines of this forum, to exchange information and ideas...unless I woke up in Russia this morning. And we are hardly talking about an innocent Miss being framed and plucked out of obscurity to satisfy the prosecution and the police's overzealous need to destroy and defame someone. What is going on here to me, is that none of the evidence leads away from KC. Hence, ergo, therefor, her supporters would have you believe that in the face of all of this evidence leading no where but Miss Anthony that we close our eyes, count to ten, swat her on the hand with a ruler and set her free? I live in Texas...so I have no control over her fate. She however does. And she remains a liar and oddly quiet for such an innocent gal.

 

[Wudge]

Here? Meaning Florida? What I basically have found is numerous DP attorney websites indicating on their information page that felony murder (1st Degree) is punishable by death. I admit that this is like a swamp of confusing information but it appears from all I have read that the DP is an option in a felony murder case. In Florida. And even though I am personally against the DP...unless Florida decides to change its policy on the DP before the trial...if convicted...it can be applied to Miss...Anthony.

Where is the code or statute in Florida that provides for the death penalty being available for felony murder in 2009?

 

[Bittiness39]

Where is the code or statute in Florida that provides for the death penalty being available for felony murder in 2009?

still going through the link you provided...it reads like stereo instructions...honestly...Still looking. No doubt you have already poured through it...this is just a poorly set up website. Even on their search engine...neither "felony murder" nor "death penalty" elicits any hits...odd. Why even have a search engine? On a site?

 

[cecybeans]

"Everyone is more or less mad on one point"

Rudyard Kipling

 

[MissJames]

I don't agree. I don't come close to agreeing. Unlike Kipling's "Law of the Jungle", our laws are not meant to run forward and back.

Dropping the presumption of innocence and engaging in rank speculation is seriously bad form. If people want an impartial trial and the presumption of innocence to be there for themselves and their family (should they ever need it), they need to protect it at all costs. Rights (and lives) can easily erode if they're not diligantly protected from the pack.


[reference]

LAW OF THE JUNGLE

Now this is the Law of the Jungle-
as old and as true as the sky;
And the Wolf that shall keep it may prosper,
but the Wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree trunk,
the Law runneth foward and back-
For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf,
and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.

Rudyard Kipling

Bad form is when you want to have it both ways.You say the jury can't "speculate " about what the current evidence means,but they can "speculate" that there was an accident of some type.We aren't allowed to be believe she's guilty,but you call a potential guilty verdict a miscarriage of justice,having made up your mind.
That's what's running backward and forward .....what you believe other posters should think and what you are allowed to think.
As a lay person ,and not belonging to the legal profession yourself,I take what you say as opinion,often insulting the rest of us.

 

[Wudge]

I understand your view point but in all sincerity we have a forum to debate and not railroad people. Everyone is entitled to speculate even in the privacy of their own home. If this speculation is somehow unfair to the defendent in terms of getting a fair trial that is unfortunate. But we are allowed, within the confines of this forum, to exchange information and ideas...unless I woke up in Russia this morning. And we are hardly talking about an innocent Miss being framed and plucked out of obscurity to satisfy the prosecution and the police's overzealous need to destroy and defame someone. What is going on here to me, is that none of the evidence leads away from KC. Hence, ergo, therefor, her supporters would have you believe that in the face of all of this evidence leading no where but Miss Anthony that we close our eyes, count to ten, swat her on the hand with a ruler and set her free? I live in Texas...so I have no control over her fate. She however does. And she remains a liar and oddly quiet for such an innocent gal.

We have very different views and I have little doubt but that we have extremely different life experiences in this arena. I will say that evermore as the decades roll by, I talk with law students or prospective law students who believe as you do -- at least initially (chuckle).

Still, every one to two years, I receive an email or a message from some poster who has a member in their family facing a criminal charge that has been getting significant local media exposure (at a minimum) that is negative. It's at that time, they seem to truly appreciate how the game looks (and is played) by the other side.

 

[Wudge]

still going through the link you provided...it reads like stereo instructions...honestly...Still looking. No doubt you have already poured through it...this is just a poorly set up website. Even on their search engine...neither "felony murder" nor "death penalty" elicits any hits...odd. Why even have a search engine? On a site?

(chuckle)

I'll simply say that if I was responsible for that site, I would read my staff a riot act they would still be talking about 1,000 years from now.

 

[Bittiness39]

We have very different views and I have little doubt but that we have extremely different life experiences in this arena. I will say that evermore as the decades roll by, I talk with law students or prospective law students who believe as you do -- at least initially (chuckle).

Still, every one to two years, I receive an email or a message from some poster who has a member in their family facing a criminal charge that has been getting significant local media exposure (at a minimum) that is negative. It's at that time, they seem to truly appreciate how the game looks (and is played) by the other side.

I give up on the Florida statute link...aieee!!! It reminds me of visiting the white pages on the internet and trying to get a phone number and you have to go thru all of these various hoops just to get it...assuming you get what you came for.

In spite of ending my last sentence with a preposition...which well...who cares anymore...my understanding is that the DP is applied in cases with a
1st degree felony murder. Life in prison is also an option.

My opinion, is colored by the fact, that a close friend of mine was raped, stabbed over 70 times had her uterus cut out and was battered unrecognizable with an iron. The defense in that case would have me believe that this person, a serial killer, was too stupid to commit the crimes that he has been convicted of. Not so. He is just a low life and I could care less if he is forced to eat bugs during his sojourn on death row. His killing, while I am against the DP is justified.

Which brings me again to Miss Anthony, and her lies...she wasn't arrested on a whim and is not being prosecuted on the tailcoats of said whim. She is where she is for a reason. And she is in control of that reason. It is not the fault of anyone on this forum that she continues to spout lies about a non-existent nanny. Maybe she might tell us next Big Bird did it. Either way, she is beyond caring about Caylee. Beyond the truth and is deservedly where she needs to be. JMO. Guilty.