GUILTY GA - Joni Clements, 47, dies in contract killing, Warner Robins, 8 Feb 2011

[JBean]

Keep in mind this happened in Warner Robins, right next to Macon. The vast majority of random violent crime and breakins are committed by...well....let's just say by people that have a strong cultural fear of big or potentially vicious dogs (or even fairly small dogs that bark aggressively). I live near there and the trait is very very noticeable. snipped.

What exactly is "a strong cultural fear of of big or potentially viscious dogs"? I think the public at large has a fear of potentially viscious dogs.

 

[Sonya610]

What exactly is "a strong cultural fear of of big or potentially viscious dogs"? I think the public at large has a fear of potentially viscious dogs.

Cultural differences.

This area has two very distinct demographic groups, one group never shows a cultural fear of big dogs (even if hesitant they never show it) and very often provides compliments, smiles at the canine, or makes overtures to engage with the dog. The other group has a far different view and almost always gives hateful/fearful/disgusted looks and if they comment it is usually to ask "does IT bite" to which I reply "Yes". Even small dogs cause a fear response if the dog so much as barks.

The vast majority of random violent crime in this area is committed by the later and they do not risk tangling with aggressive dogs unless the reward is very high, if that is the case they typically kill the dogs out of spite. This was not a random crime, the attitude towards the dogs pretty much assures non-randomness.

 

[Sonya610]

I do think that the daughter is telling the truth. I don't think she or the BF have anything to do with this. I'm thinking that someone set this up and the hit man came to the house that day, only to discover that it was the daughter and not the wife at home. He then came back when he was more sure it was the wife and not the daughter.

I agree it wasn't random. However hitmen are pricey and dangerous to hire (FBI investigations and such) I just don't believe someone would pay big bucks for a hitman and then send him over to the house when the schedule was not known. A real pro would probably charge extra for wasting his time, plus a pro wouldn't just test to see if the door was unlocked and deal with unexpected dogs.

If the "guy in the hoodie" was a hitman he would have known about the dogs ahead of time. Also a black hoodie would not be appropriate attire, if someone hired a crackhead to do the job then maybe, but a crackhead likely wouldn't have come back after the first incident and they would have stolen various items and done other things while there.

Of course it is possible the daughter was not involved and someone pulled the stunt with the door in order to place a red herring before the crime, but that still seems very very odd.

 

[belimom]

I agree it wasn't random. However hitmen are pricey and dangerous to hire (FBI investigations and such) I just don't believe someone would pay big bucks for a hitman and then send him over to the house when the schedule was not known. A real pro would probably charge extra for wasting his time, plus a pro wouldn't just test to see if the door was unlocked and deal with unexpected dogs.

If the "guy in the hoodie" was a hitman he would have known about the dogs ahead of time. Also a black hoodie would not be appropriate attire, if someone hired a crackhead to do the job then maybe, but a crackhead likely wouldn't have come back after the first incident and they would have stolen various items and done other things while there.

Of course it is possible the daughter was not involved and someone pulled the stunt with the door in order to place a red herring before the crime, but that still seems very very odd.

But I don't believe the dog frightened him away. I think whoever it was knew about the dogs and was prepared. I think what made the hit man leave the first time is that it was the wrong person who came home at that time that first day. MOO

ETA: I also think the price of a hit man is relative. You could probably find any seasoned criminal to do it for the right price. And that price varies from person to person, according to their experience, etc. JMHO

 

[JBean]

Cultural differences.

This area has two very distinct demographic groups, one group never shows a cultural fear of big dogs (even if hesitant they never show it) and very often provides compliments, smiles at the canine, or makes overtures to engage with the dog. The other group has a far different view and almost always gives hateful/fearful/disgusted looks and if they comment it is usually to ask "does IT bite" to which I reply "Yes". Even small dogs cause a fear response if the dog so much as barks.

The vast majority of random violent crime in this area is committed by the later and they do not risk tangling with aggressive dogs unless the reward is very high, if that is the case they typically kill the dogs out of spite. This was not a random crime, the attitude towards the dogs pretty much assures non-randomness.

I think it is suspect to make sweeping generalizations and absolutes about groups of people based on culture in this regard. I have bolded the part I find the most startling. Every person in one group never shows fear of dogs and the people in the other culture almost always would avoid or give a hateful look?
However, if you can provide some reliable data to support such a notion that this is a cultural bias and applies to every person in said culture, I will read with an open mind.
Otherwise stereotyping is not tolerated in general and I repectfully request you don't go down this road.
You describe the differences in people and not necessarily cultures in my opinion. Those that have been exposed to dogs, those that have not, those that have been bitten, those that have not etc., etc.

Please be sure to distinguish your opinion from fact.

 

[marycarney]

I agree, I will be shocked if there really was a man in a black hoodie, just because it does sound like the stereo-type of the bad guy home invader...

This has always troubled me as well. I guess I take special interest in this case as I am also an RN.

 

[Sonya610]

I think it is suspect to make sweeping generalizations and absolutes about groups of people based on culture in this regard. I have bolded the part I find the most startling. Every person in one group never shows fear of dogs and the people in the other culture almost always would avoid or give a hateful look?
However, if you can provide some reliable data to support such a notion that this is a cultural bias and applies to every person in said culture, I will read with an open mind.
Otherwise stereotyping is not tolerated in general and I repectfully request you don't go down this road.
You describe the differences in people and not necessarily cultures in my opinion. Those that have been exposed to dogs, those that have not, those that have been bitten, those that have not etc., etc.

Please be sure to distinguish your opinion from fact.

I will add a sig line that clearly states if no links are provided it is MY opinion. Thank you for the kind advice.

The government does not track or provide any official statistics on attitudes towards dogs by sub-culture. However the crime stats and local demographics are very well documented.

Roughly 49% of the murders in this country are committed by 6.5% of the population (the males of a particular ethnicity). The census data on the location of this crime shows the demographic group (both genders) accounts for 62.5% of the local population. Simple math implies if 6.5% of the population commits 49% of the murders and if the majority of the local population is a member of that demographic group then statistically speaking most random murderers/robberies would likely be perpetrated by a member of that demographic group.

The government only publishes data on VICTIM demographics these days, they are very careful not to publish homocide or burglary perp demographic info. However they still turn out little reports on parolees in the US. http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=1656

I wish I were a math whiz and could come up with a statistical likelihood...I am not and my best guess is the likelihood of a specific demographic committing a "random" murder or robbery in this area would probably be in the 90th percentile. If anyone on the site can calculate the likelihood it would be much appreciated.

 

[JBean]

I will add a sig line that clearly states if no links are provided it is MY opinion. Thank you for the kind advice.

The government does not track or provide any official statistics on attitudes towards dogs by sub-culture. However the crime stats and local demographics are very well documented.

Roughly 49% of the murders in this country are committed by 6.5% of the population (the males of a particular ethnicity). The census data on the location of this crime shows the demographic group (both genders) accounts for 62.5% of the local population. Simple math implies if 6.5% of the population commits 49% of the murders and if the majority of the local population is a member of that demographic group then statistically speaking most random murderers/robberies would likely be perpetrated by a member of that demographic group.

The government only publishes data on VICTIM demographics these days, they are very careful not to publish homocide or burglary perp demographic info. However they still turn out little reports on parolees in the US. http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=1656

I wish I were a math whiz and could come up with a statistical likelihood...I am not and my best guess is the likelihood of a specific demographic committing a "random" murder or robbery in this area would probably be in the 90th percentile. If anyone on the site can calculate the likelihood it would be much appreciated.

Thanks for that info, but as you can see that does not address cultural bias that creates or eliminates fear or love of viscious dogs. So again, please avoid stereotyping. thanks Sonya.

You may certainly add what you propose to your sig line,no problem at all. But you still need to distinguish in your post what is fact and what is not.Using terms like" in my experience", "in my opinion", "IMO", JMHO or MOO let people know that this is your own take on things and not factual data. It really is important and can create issues when someone takes your opinion as fact and moves on with it. This is primarily an issue when it comes to reporting absolute data as you did in your previous post. IT is not as critical when having a casual discussion and opinions are being shared but no hard data or information is being stated.

Thanks for your cooperation it is appreciated.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

So I just searched and searched again. Didn't really find anything new, but I did find one statement that I thought was interesting, even if old. It could be nothing but I wanted to post it.

bbm

Am I missing something?

He is not a suspect but he is cooperating with the police.

That reminds me of Mark Klass............he wasnt a suspect either but he cooperated with the police.

IMO

 

[belimom]

This probably has nothing to do with her death, but I did find it interesting - just posting the link and a snippet so as not to name anyone who may not be connected to this case:

Put the EMF Detector Down and Step Off My Dead Grandmother

.............

This quote from the head of the group, Joni Clements, particularly irked me,
"We're not trying to make Evergreen an exhibition hall, were trying to help preserve the beauty that's here and give the residents some dignity even in their death."

.............

http://convozine.com/conversations/5842

 

[marycarney]

BUMP -- -- anything?

 

[Sonya610]

Three suspects arrested, including the husband. Husband identified as the shooter.

Her husband, James E. Clements Jr., 55, was arrested Monday...He was charged with felony murder and burglary.

Also, Saturday, a father and son from Warner Robins were charged with felony murder in connection with the slaying, Pugh said.

http://www.macon.com/2011/03/21/1496163/husband-two-others-charged-with.html

 

[Chaos]

Arrests made......

http://www.macon.com/2011/03/21/1496163/husband-two-others-charged-with.html

 

[cluciano63]

I wish I was surprised...but as soon as I heard that he was cooperating, it made me feel as though there was something there. Very sad.

 

[SuziQ]

Another case of being betrayed by those closest to you. I'm sorry Joni became a victim of that.

 

[belimom]

I am not surprised. He was my number one suspect from day one. RIP, Joni... and God bless the rest of her family.

 

[belimom]

Three suspects arrested, including the husband. Husband identified as the shooter.



http://www.macon.com/2011/03/21/1496163/husband-two-others-charged-with.html

Now it says the husband was not home -- but I believe that he did plan/order/orchestrate it all, MOO:

Warner Robins police detectives have identified Richard Sybert, 29, as the shooter, Pugh said. He is being held at the Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office and faces extradition to Georgia.

James Clements and Robert Sybert were not at the house when Joni Clements was killed, Pugh said.
......

http://www.macon.com/2011/03/21/1496163/husband-two-others-charged-with.html

 

[belimom]

Here are the three suspects:

Picture link from WMAZ:
http://www.13wmaz.com/images/640/36...12_jamesclementsrobertsybertrichardsybert.png
http://www.13wmaz.com/news/local/ar...-Murder?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|p

James Clements, Robert Sybert, Richard Sybert

Also from WMAZ:

She says the suspected motive is not being released at this time.

http://www.13wmaz.com/news/local/ar...-Murder?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|p

 

[Sonya610]

Now it says the husband was not home -- but I believe that he did plan/order/orchestrate it all, MOO:

I must have misread, must have been a hired hit?

Correction the paper edited the story, other macon posters also read that the husband did it, now the shooter is being identified as one of the other two.

 

[RIGHTEOUS1]

Why are people so stupid to think they can get away with a Crime like this today?