GUILTY GA - Jorelys Rivera, 7, Canton, 2 Dec 2011 - #3

[angelmom]

I'm not sure who the mother would file a law suit against. The police, I feel did everything in their power to help out. The apartment complex keys were in the hands of the perp, and they employed the guy. She could file a civil suit against the accused.

I agree. And it would be hard to blame the apartment complex for hiring him since he has no record (that we've heard of) or reason NOT to hire him.

The mother would be crazy to sue, because any decent lawyer is going to trot out the DFCS employees who visited the four previous times when Jorelys wasn't being watched closely enough, when no one met her at the bus, etc.

I'm not placing blame on the mother, but she can hardly point the finger at anyone else except the actual killer.

 

[krimekat]

The police for not doing more the first few hours. As far as entering EVERY empty apartment. I agree it might not have saved her BUT he might have been caught with evidence on him.
I'm not saying she will, but it has crossed my mind.

please . . . I see no cause for Jorelys' family to sue the police department.

She had been missing since Friday evening around 5 p.m. She was reported missing to Cheorkee E-911 at 7:12 p.m. The missing person call was dispatched at 7:15 p.m., and Canton police arrived on scene at 7:30 p.m. She was most likely dead by the time LE arrived . . .

but also in this article Police have been looking for Jorely since 5:30 p.m. -- poor reporting?

http://www.cherokeeledgernews.com/news/breaking-news

I commend LE keeping things close to their chests, so to speak, as not to make the trial a cost-sucking nightmare.

 

[tlcya]

The dogs failed imo because they didn't go directly to the vacant apartment from the playground where she was last seen.

I read the K9s and a helicopter was used in the search.

Once the dogs are given an article belonging to the missing person and have her scent, they should have gone from the playground to the vacant apartment where she was murdered. If they had, LE would have found the crime scene sooner.

Some canine owners who appeared on NG said the dogs can pick up a person's scent and trail months after they've disappeared.

Cadaver dogs would not necessarily be looking for Jorelys's scent as a SAR dog would. Cadaver dogs are specifically trained to seek out the smell of decomp. So cadaver dogs would not have found her initially and by the time they were brought in, she was long gone.

SAR dogs might, but really, as Jorelys lived there, played there, spent lots of time running all around the complex, often with little supervision, I think a dog may have a problem with too much of her live scent all over to direct their handler's to where she was KWIM? So even though k9's were on the scene, I think it possible that it is not that they could not find her scent but more likely that they found her scent all over the darn place. If that was happening, I imagine it would make it hard for a handler to interpret the dogs' behaviors.

IDK, I am not explaining my thoughts very well at the moment I am afraid. And I am by no means a SARS expert but I have immense respect for the art. Also, I have heard it over and over from the experts. A SARS dog is only as good as its training and its handler, so that is a factor too.

ETA I saw katydid's response to this too late. She said it much more succinctly.

 

[marazul]

just came back from the funeral home. We were not sure if we were going to attend the vigil or the viewing, but once we got closer the funeral home had pleanty of parking and the line was already long, so we parked and got in line.

I am not sure what to share and what not to share. There was a slide show playing in one room, and this child was definately loved. Birthday cakes, halloween costumes, Christmas dresses, there were pictures of every single important moment, she looked so happy and well cared for in all of them.

It was, in fact, and open casket. I was surprised at this. My daughters did not go in the room with me where the casket was laid. They waited outside that room for me to go through. My daughter hugged Jorelys' mother, her mother thanked us and gave my daughter a kiss on her head. She was holding herself together. My heart goes out to her.

There were many teddy bears and flowers left for her, a very long line of people passing through.

My close friend went to the vigil and said it was not near the loving memorial experience that it should have been, she said it had the vibe of "a hooray for LE" celebration. She felt very dissappointed with the vigil. I am glad we went to the viewing instead of the vigil, glad we were able to offer our condolences, glad the community was out in force. I know that it will never make enough of a difference to heal this family, nothing will ever be enough...there really are no words.

 

[Crosby87]

But did the GBI or someone come in and save it, I hope?

here is an interesting article that discusses the Search

<snipped>

65 local, state, federal investigators on case. Some ask why Canton police didn't summon outside experts sooner.

The industrial trash compactor where her mangled body lay and the bloody apartment where she apparently was killed were discovered Monday within the complex. The breakthrough came after local officials called in a multi-agency state team specially trained in child abduction.

The sanitation company that owns the trash bin was preparing to haul it away Monday morning when a member of the state investigative unit intervened, Thigpen said. "We dumped the trash and within five minutes we had the body," she said.

Keenan said Canton police had not searched the trash bin where Jorelys' body was found because the contents were too tightly compacted.

Samples recovered from the apartment suspected as the crime scene have been sent to the State Crime Lab to determine if they are linked to Jorelys.

The state's Child Abduction Response Team was mobilized Sunday evening after Cherokee County Sheriff Roger Garrison phoned the GBI. Over the weekend, Canton police had conducted the search, at times rebuffing suggestions that they summon outside help, according to law enforcement officials who discussed the matter with The Atlanta Journal-Constitution on the condition of anonymity.

Canton Police Chief Jeff Lance did not respond Tuesday evening to a phone call and an email asking him to discuss why he did not place the call to the state's special unit.

By Monday, after the team was mobilized, more than 50 GBI agents, Georgia State Patrol troopers, Department of Natural Resources rangers and other state officers were on hand to assist local police and firefighters.

Troopers were dispatched to check licenses and cars on the road in front of the complex. Thigpen said they had two machines that read license plates and instantly check for warrants, stolen car reports or registrations to sex offenders. Two drug-sniffing dogs also circled each car.

Over the weekend, Canton police had interviewed residents of the apartment complex and released pictures and a description of the missing Canton Elementary School first-grader. They also placed a call to the national nonprofit A Child is Missing, which then contacted about 17,000 households in the surrounding areas with a recorded message, notifying residents of the missing child and her description, according to A Child is Missing founder Sherry Friedlander.

Read more: http://www6.lexisnexis.com/publishe...=100020422&docId=l:1556784692&isRss=true&Em=4

 

[katydid23]

Cadaver dogs would not necessarily be looking for Jorelys's scent as a SAR dog would. Cadaver dogs are specifically trained to seek out the smell of decomp. So cadaver dogs would not have found her initially and by the time they were brought in, she was long gone.

SAR dogs might, but really, as Jorelys lived there, played there, spent lots of time running all around the complex, often with little supervision, I think a dog may have a problem with too much of her live scent all over to direct their handler's to where she was KWIM? So even though k9's were on the scene, I think it possible that it is not that they could not find her scent but more likely that they found her scent all over the darn place. If that was happening, I imagine it would make it hard for a handler to interpret the dogs' behaviors.

IDK, I am not explaining my thoughts very well at the moment I am afraid. And I am by no means a SARS expert but I have immense respect for the art. Also, I have heard it over and over from the experts. A SARS dog is only as good as its training and its handler, so that is a factor too.

That was what I was trying to say too upthread. When a dog is trying to follow a scent trail, they need a 'trail' to follow. But that poor child's scent would have been literally everywhere in that immediate area. So I don't think a dog would have found a proper, separate trail to follow.

 

[tlcya]

thank you marazul, for giving us a glimpse into this moment. I hope your girls are doing okay and found it a comforting event. I so appreciate having your perspective on the scene, so to speak.

 

[abagale]

quote by tlcox
Cadaver dogs would not necessarily be looking for Jorelys's scent as a SAR dog would. Cadaver dogs are specifically trained to seek out the smell of decomp. So cadaver dogs would not have found her initially and by the time they were brought in, she was long gone.

That raises another point, Is it possible that Ryan abducted the victim and took her off of the premises alive? He drove her somewhere and then returned her later. Just a thought.

 

[Dee10]

Could someone pulled up the warrant or the doc. for that with that strange time-frame IIRC 4 to 8 or 9 maybe that is what the problem is??? The time of death was 1 to 1 1/2 hours after she went missing, as we know from the press there was a couple times listed one roughly 3:30 or 3:45 ish & the other was around 5. I believe the police got there at 7:30? So where does the later time come into play? I think this could be a very interesting discussion IMO.

 

[marazul]

I believe the reports said that the calls about a missing Jorelys have been spread out over the last year. And yes, as part of Cherokee County School district, Canton schools have required Kindergarten, which she would have been in last year at the same school she attended this year. :seeya:

ETA:Lol, I just now noticed your ETA.

Last school year (her kindergarten year) she lived at a different close by apartment complex and attended a different elementary school than the one she attended this school year (her first grade year.) The 2 schools are probably 6 miles apart and both in Canton and in the Cherokee Co school system.

 

[katydid23]

here is an interesting article that discusses the Search

<snipped>

65 local, state, federal investigators on case. Some ask why Canton police didn't summon outside experts sooner.

The industrial trash compactor where her mangled body lay and the bloody apartment where she apparently was killed were discovered Monday within the complex. The breakthrough came after local officials called in a multi-agency state team specially trained in child abduction.

The sanitation company that owns the trash bin was preparing to haul it away Monday morning when a member of the state investigative unit intervened, Thigpen said. "We dumped the trash and within five minutes we had the body," she said.

Keenan said Canton police had not searched the trash bin where Jorelys' body was found because the contents were too tightly compacted.

Samples recovered from the apartment suspected as the crime scene have been sent to the State Crime Lab to determine if they are linked to Jorelys.

The state's Child Abduction Response Team was mobilized Sunday evening after Cherokee County Sheriff Roger Garrison phoned the GBI. Over the weekend, Canton police had conducted the search, at times rebuffing suggestions that they summon outside help, according to law enforcement officials who discussed the matter with The Atlanta Journal-Constitution on the condition of anonymity.

Canton Police Chief Jeff Lance did not respond Tuesday evening to a phone call and an email asking him to discuss why he did not place the call to the state's special unit.

By Monday, after the team was mobilized, more than 50 GBI agents, Georgia State Patrol troopers, Department of Natural Resources rangers and other state officers were on hand to assist local police and firefighters.

Troopers were dispatched to check licenses and cars on the road in front of the complex. Thigpen said they had two machines that read license plates and instantly check for warrants, stolen car reports or registrations to sex offenders. Two drug-sniffing dogs also circled each car.

Over the weekend, Canton police had interviewed residents of the apartment complex and released pictures and a description of the missing Canton Elementary School first-grader. They also placed a call to the national nonprofit A Child is Missing, which then contacted about 17,000 households in the surrounding areas with a recorded message, notifying residents of the missing child and her description, according to A Child is Missing founder Sherry Friedlander.

Read more: http://www6.lexisnexis.com/publishe...=100020422&docId=l:1556784692&isRss=true&Em=4

BBM

WOW. It makes sense that the perp might have been out there checking out the compacter on Sunday night, if it was going to be picked up the next day.

 

[tlcya]

Could someone pulled up the warrant or the doc. for that with that strange time-frame IIRC 4 to 8 or 9 maybe that is what the problem is??? The time of death was 1 to 1 1/2 hours after she went missing, as we know from the press there was a couple times listed one roughly 3:30 or 3:45 ish & the other was around 5. I believe the police got there at 7:30? So where does the later time come into play? I think this could be a very interesting discussion IMO.

If I have a moment I will drag it forward, it is about ten pages back or so I think.

I think the warrant may have been more broad in its time window, either a) because the preliminary reports were in from the ME and the TOD window had not yet been narrowed to the 6:30 time or b) because TOD is never exact but an educated conclusion arrived at my a trained ME, so maybe they left wriggle room in case results of other autopsy testing were not in yet and could conceivably have altered that window.

Say they put between the hours of 5 and 7 on the warrant. And it is later discovered through extensive testing and lab results, etc, that she actually died around 8:30.

These are just the things that come to my mind at the moment, I could be full of baloney, lol

You are right though, it could make for an interesting discussion to try and suss out the reasoning behind it.

 

[katydid23]

If I have a moment I will drag it forward, it is about ten pages back or so I think.

I think the warrant may have been more broad in its time window, either a) because the preliminary reports were in from the ME and the TOD window had not yet been narrowed to the 6:30 time or b) because TOD is never exact but an educated conclusion arrived at my a trained ME, so maybe they left wriggle room in case results of other autopsy testing were not in yet and could conceivably have altered that window.

Say they put between the hours of 5 and 7 on the warrant. And it is later discovered through extensive testing and lab results, etc, that she actually died around 8:30.

These are just the things that come to my mind at the moment, I could be full of baloney, lol

You are right though, it could make for an interesting discussion to try and suss out the reasoning behind it.

8:30? LE was called at 7 or so. I imagine they were searching the buildings by 7:15 at least. Would she still be inside a vacant apt. being killed for another hour and a half while LE is searching the area?

 

[tlcya]

don't freak on me katydid, the TOD has been called at around 6:30, I was just off on one of my tangents, lol

Me and my whatifs.

 

[Kat]

Another member did post the warrant and I couldn't easily find it using the search feature but here it is:

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/arrest-made-7-year-olds-killing/nFwjb//

I'm not that interested in the warrant. Warrants usually are rather broad and not detailed.

I want to see the probable cause statement used to get that warrant. That would tell us a lot more JMHO.

ETA: Because warrants can be so broad in specifics, and LE kind of follows procedures that military will use with documents. I read this as sort of a use of "at or about" kind of terms that the military uses. So when you file a formal doc in the military or create a memorandum for record you don't say at such and such time to the minute. You say at or about such and such time. That gives leeway. Otherwise, it can be argued that the time is incorrect because it has been notated and submitted as a specific time. My point is that a specific time on a legal doc can be argued in court. However, a broad time frame can't as easily. I could be wrong though JMHO.

 

[tlcya]

from your mouth to the sleuthing angel's ear Kat,

 

[Crosby87]

Bluesky not sure where you are coming from the dogs "failed miserably"? What specific kind of dogs are you talking about? I don't remember reading anything about dogs, what kind of dogs or what any dogs found or did not find. Although I would be surprised if there were no dogs, are there any links to find about dogs in this case? Can someone please help me out here?

I read an article earlier today that said K9 dogs and a helicopter aided in the search and afaik, K9 dogs search for missing children but it didn't say anything more about what happened and where they went.

Using dogs which search for missing children would have really helped in this case since the crime was fresh and committed in a confined area.

Another article (link below) said Troopers were dispatched to check licenses and cars on the road in front of the complex. Thigpen said they had two machines that read license plates and instantly checked for warrants, stolen car reports or registrations to sex offenders while two drug-sniffing dogs circled each car.

NG over the years has had several search dogs on with their trainers who explain the capabilities of the dogs and because JR was last seen at the playground, they should have been able to pick up and follow her scent with ease so I was surprised to learn the dogs didn't help LE find the vacant apartment or dumpster where she was placed, that's all.

http://www6.lexisnexis.com/publishe...=100020422&docId=l:1556784692&isRss=true&Em=4

 

[gngr~snap]

Another member did post the warrant and I couldn't easily find it using the search feature but here it is:

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/arrest-made-7-year-olds-killing/nFwjb//

I'm not that interested in the warrant. Warrants usually are rather broad and not detailed.

I want to see the probable cause statement used to get that warrant. That would tell us a lot more JMHO.

10009 was that the unit where the bloody mattress was found?
Why did I hear Bldg 2000?
RB lived in Bldg 12000 didn't he?

oh well, it makes no difference.

What Bldg did JR live in?

 

[abagale]

I can't get away from the dogs not finding the child. Can anyone shed some light on the vacant apartment? The Cherokee Ledger News writes - Jorelys was taken to a vacant apartment unit in a building adjacent to her family&#8217;s building inside the complex, and investigators say what they believe to be samples of blood were taken to the GBI crime lab. The article does not state that the murder was committed at the vacant apartment.

 

[Kat]

http://law.onecle.com/georgia/16/16-5-1.html

This is the specific statute notated on the murder arrest warrant. As it stands now without further ammendments once there is an indictment.

JFYI.

We are into the legal phase and as most here know this is an entirely different "dance" (I call the legal process a dance not to be irreverant but that's just how it appears to me).