GUILTY GA - Jorelys Rivera, 7, Canton, 2 Dec 2011 - #5

BBM

Is this vetted? I keep seeing this statement with no MSM/LE verification. So, is this vetted?

DP for that? Really? Wow - it's a rumor . . . unless vetted (and I don't consider puerto rican journalism MSM, you may though)!

Well, I did not mean JUST for that. I meant IF he killed her, and then he went to the mother's apt. to ask for a picture so he could 'help' them find her, then YES, imo, he deserves the DP for being such a evil, twisted freak. imoo

eta: I don't know why Puerto Rican news articles would be any less credible than American ones. I could be wrong though.
 
Puerto Rican news is American mainstream media. Certainly, not every town or locale in the US and its territories has the same level of journalism, but I don't believe that Websleuths disallows news sources from specific towns or anything. No? It's the same thing, really, imho.

If Nancy Grace counts... ;)
 
How many other people went to Jorelys' mother's door and asked for photos? I think it would be interesting if he were the only one...not going to prove anything, but would be interesting to know.

Honestly, I don't think ANYBODY other than police. Really, who would have the nerve?

I still cannot get over he was brazen enough & took the risk to do clean up, then join the search! Although it was a back apartment, people where out looking, even with the blinds closed (if there were blinds) there must have been a bit of light showing in the dark from a vacant apt.? BRAZEN! I can't get over the cold calculatedness of this crime...than GOD they got him!
 
I commented on the other thread about how I helped search and attended the viewing, funeral, and vigil. I wish I had known that there were fellow WebSleuthers there with me. I'm sure I likely met several of you and we didn't even know it. Are there ever any GA gatherings for this community?

The impression I got at Jorelys' viewing was that several of the apartment residents were angry at the police for not checking what they considered to be the most obvious place: the trash compactor/dumpster. I admit to being shocked myself that it was moved and left in a new location and not checked for days.

I can understand the reasoning behind the investigation into how the entire thing was handled. I volunteered to search and was told that the Canton Police were not allowing volunteer involvement. So, I was a part of a 'rogue' search. IMHO, when a child is missing it's all hands on deck ... whether you're just an average Joe or not.

My hometown neighbors Canton. It's where we shop, take our animals to the vet, go to dinner. I've always known that there are monsters all over the place, but to have one do this practically in my back yard has made me so safety conscious I'm bordering on paranoia.
 
The story that he went to the apartment to ask for a picture of Jorelys was a quote from Jorelys' Mother in an Univision article.

Univision *is* an American Main Stream Media Company that is headquartered in New York City. It has several studios located throughout the US. It is an American spanish langauge media company.

Galavision is owned by Univision. JFYI. :)
 
I commented on the other thread about how I helped search and attended the viewing, funeral, and vigil. I wish I had known that there were fellow WebSleuthers there with me. I'm sure I likely met several of you and we didn't even know it. Are there ever any GA gatherings for this community?

The impression I got at Jorelys' viewing was that several of the apartment residents were angry at the police for not checking what they considered to be the most obvious place: the trash compactor/dumpster. I admit to being shocked myself that it was moved and left in a new location and not checked for days.

I can understand the reasoning behind the investigation into how the entire thing was handled. I volunteered to search and was told that the Canton Police were not allowing volunteer involvement. So, I was a part of a 'rogue' search. IMHO, when a child is missing it's all hands on deck ... whether you're just an average Joe or not.

My hometown neighbors Canton. It's where we shop, take our animals to the vet, go to dinner. I've always known that there are monsters all over the place, but to have one do this practically in my back yard has made me so safety conscious I'm bordering on paranoia.

BBM

I am curious, what day did you volunteer to search? I was wondering if RB only helped search on Friday night and what was he doing on Sat. & Sun. I oh soooo want a timeline on him.

I can understand why LE didn't want volunteers searching. A volunteer could contaminate the crime scene without even knowing they made a mistake. I know how you feel, I wanted so badly to go search for Zahra Baker.
 
This is the first case of this nature that I have followed in real time, I have read about many others but mainly after the fact. It seems that once RB was arrested, LE basically shut up about it. I understand that this is for the ability to prosecute without jury contamination, but it seems to me that we know less than we have with other cases at this point. When LE asked the Rivera family to cancel the press conference, I was dissappointed. I assume they would have said a big thank you for the community support and some kind words about Jorelys, they could have just prepared a statement and not answered questions from the press. They could have been told not to speak directly of RB, that would have been fine. But after the community was sooo involved in every step, from searching, to the viewing, vigil, huge amount of donations, if I was the family I would have been irritated that LE wouldn't let me speak in public to acknowledge this. In other cases, we hear so much more from the families, I guess this is because the search takes longer and there is no perp in custody?
I have watched a few trials, (recently I think of anthony, conrad murray) where we the public knew most of the evidence going in. I totally understand that LE has a job to do, there has not been an indictment yet, and there is much more to come, it really isn't "my business" to know any more, I just wish there was more information already. How can directly explaining the blood found in the apartment hurt the case? That doesn't even link directly to a specific perp, just something clearer than "small amount that looked like a nosebleed" then "gruesome crime scene, blood on walls"..can we get a (for example) "by the front hallway there was a small amount of blood similar to a nosebleed then in the back bedroom there was a pool of blood on a mattress as well as blood splatter on the wall?" Are those details usually this unclear? Am I just being selfish in my desire to know more?
 
Thanks for the insight :) I'm sure mistakes are made all the time, however I really do believe Brunn is guilty for this murder, just hope the jurors agree.......:cop:


bbm
I hope the evidence agrees ! (cart before the horse, IMHO)
 
Pretty much most of what we "know" is hearsay. I know I read or "heard" 8 days ago that RB did go by and request a photo from Jorely's apartment. (I commented on it in this forum on 12/9) I now have seen it "verified" in the PR MSM. I beleive that it happened.

Weather it happened or not it isn't really revelant to anything is it? It's just trivia in the big picture.

The big picture being the physical evidence in the case or really whatever the evidence is against RB (and I don't mean a key to the compacter):banghead:

I believe it is very relevant whether RB asked for a pic of JR & it's also relevant whether the manager asked him to do so or did he do it on his own accord !

Trivia? Naw . . .

I guess we'll know more once GJ convenes in January . . .
 
BBM

I am curious, what day did you volunteer to search? I was wondering if RB only helped search on Friday night and what was he doing on Sat. & Sun. I oh soooo want a timeline on him.

I can understand why LE didn't want volunteers searching. A volunteer could contaminate the crime scene without even knowing they made a mistake. I know how you feel, I wanted so badly to go search for Zahra Baker.


I started trying to volunteer the first full day she was missing. I was told that I could bring coffee and snacks for the officers and qualified search crew, but they wouldn't need civilian help. I found out via Facebook that these 'rogue' search groups were forming. I searched the day they found her. It was gut wrenching.

And I definitely understand about the worry of crime scene contamination. I just felt so helpless sitting here and watching it unfold on television. Of course, after publicly humiliating myself by crying until I looked like I had been stung repeatedly in the face, I probably SHOULD have stayed home.
 
<<< Respectfully Snipped >>>

The impression I got at Jorelys' viewing was that several of the apartment residents were angry at the police for not checking what they considered to be the most obvious place: the trash compactor/dumpster. I admit to being shocked myself that it was moved and left in a new location and not checked for days.

I can understand the reasoning behind the investigation into how the entire thing was handled. I volunteered to search and was told that the Canton Police were not allowing volunteer involvement. So, I was a part of a 'rogue' search. IMHO, when a child is missing it's all hands on deck ... whether you're just an average Joe or not.

BBM
IIRC LE had to wait for the company who disconnects the dumpster from the compactor to get onsite & remove the dumpster from the area -- and it took until Monday for the company to get there . . . I am certain one of the earlier articles states as such. If I run across it, I will edit my post.

Canton emergency management director Jeff Hall said authorities had not searched the trash container until Monday because it was a large garbage compacting bin that needed to be moved offsite so they could go through it. Not really specific

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/kidnap-experts-join-ga-hunt-missing-girl-15087960#.Tuyz5dTOxEM

While investigators had searched other dumpsters in the complex over the weekend, the contents of the dumpster where her body was found were compacted and could not be searched until the owner of the dumpster moved it to another location.


http://www.11alive.com/news/article/215763/40/CANTON--Jorelys-Rivera-memorialized-Saturday
 
I started trying to volunteer the first full day she was missing. I was told that I could bring coffee and snacks for the officers and qualified search crew, but they wouldn't need civilian help. I found out via Facebook that these 'rogue' search groups were forming. I searched the day they found her. It was gut wrenching.

And I definitely understand about the worry of crime scene contamination. I just felt so helpless sitting here and watching it unfold on television. Of course, after publicly humiliating myself by crying until I looked like I had been stung repeatedly in the face, I probably SHOULD have stayed home.

Kudos to you for being out there! And bless you for caring so much!

Same thing happened with Tyler Dasher in StL just a couple miles from me! LE wanted no assistance in the search (boy, there were TONS of LE there, too) but the vigil was heart-wrenching. Innocence lost . . . end of days :innocent:
 
This is the first case of this nature that I have followed in real time, I have read about many others but mainly after the fact. It seems that once RB was arrested, LE basically shut up about it. I understand that this is for the ability to prosecute without jury contamination, but it seems to me that we know less than we have with other cases at this point. When LE asked the Rivera family to cancel the press conference, I was dissappointed. I assume they would have said a big thank you for the community support and some kind words about Jorelys, they could have just prepared a statement and not answered questions from the press. They could have been told not to speak directly of RB, that would have been fine. But after the community was sooo involved in every step, from searching, to the viewing, vigil, huge amount of donations, if I was the family I would have been irritated that LE wouldn't let me speak in public to acknowledge this. In other cases, we hear so much more from the families, I guess this is because the search takes longer and there is no perp in custody?
I have watched a few trials, (recently I think of anthony, conrad murray) where we the public knew most of the evidence going in. I totally understand that LE has a job to do, there has not been an indictment yet, and there is much more to come, it really isn't "my business" to know any more, I just wish there was more information already. How can directly explaining the blood found in the apartment hurt the case? That doesn't even link directly to a specific perp, just something clearer than "small amount that looked like a nosebleed" then "gruesome crime scene, blood on walls"..can we get a (for example) "by the front hallway there was a small amount of blood similar to a nosebleed then in the back bedroom there was a pool of blood on a mattress as well as blood splatter on the wall?" Are those details usually this unclear? Am I just being selfish in my desire to know more?

I think you're being human and a websleuther! :rocker:

I think it's not just that it's the first case you're following in real time (me too), but the fact that it's a rapidly resolved case (despite missteps with Canton LE.)

December 2- child goes missing
December 6-body found
December 6- crime scene found
December 7- perp arrested

December 6-8 (or 9,10th + ?) crime scene still being processed???

It's only December 17th today. The crime scene and body were found 11 days ago, along with enough of some sort of evidence to make an arrest the following day.

In most cases I follow, there is no body. Or the body was found months later. So maybe they find the potential crime scene (which they took their sweet time processing), but can't tie the perp to it. Or some evidence is found but not a body. Or a body and no evidence because it's been six months. The point is, the LE had been working the case for months, taking this much if not more time, and info trickled out. Even when they indicted someone, they probably had been working up an evidence/interview file for months against their suspect, so when they got that final piece (The body), the indictment seemed instantaneous to us.

I think a lot of details we end up hearing are post indictment. And I don't know that they are releases of the amount and specificity of info you'd see in the police report. I think that level of detail is reserved for the GJ and for trial. :waitasec:

Less than two weeks from finding the body and the crime scene, the GBI is gathering 'mountains of evidence' of a 'mammoth case' to present to the DA and the GJ. Anything that comes out now is 'tipping their hand' to RBs defense team. AFAIK, LE doesn't have to share anything they have against the perp pre-indictment, other than with the judge (for the warrant for his arrest). Someone correct me if I'm wrong on that. If they don't want to share with the defense until indictment, for whatever reason, they ain't gonna share it with MSM.

I don't think they will be releasing any more details regarding the crime scene or anything they find out about RB before the indictment. MOO.

As far as the mother speaking, IMO, unfortunately, as the parent of a juvenile victim in her care, she is a witness of sorts in the chain of events. I realize she hadn't seen her child since the day before, but that was a part of the chain of events, and she was 'involved' during the search. And if RB actually did come to her apartment for a picture and it turns out no one asked him to ... that's something LE and the DA might not want discussed ad nauseum pre-trial. Doesn't make RB guilty, but is just one of those, er, 'hot body contest' type moments that goes to the psychology of the perp post- crime.

I think we're not going to hear that "Oh! THAT's why they were so sure it was him" moment/piece of evidence until it gets to trial. But I'm pretty sure, considering the GBI director's outspokenness on his confidence they have the right man, that there will be that moment. :twocents:

And wanting more info, now, is human nature. And so is being frustrated! :crazy:
 
I found this article interesting to help understand how the serial rapist/murder's mind works (or doesn't). It's actual interview with 4 repeat offenders in a discussion setting. They give input on motivation, and the cycle of offending:

Procedure

The structure within the group-treatment, which had been conducted since the mid 1980's, was quite loose. In the year 2000 two of the psychologists employed at the hospital were given the assignment to start group-therapy with rapists, properly documented and possible to evaluate. The therapy was established from a psychodynamic perspective, with influences of humanistic and existential thoughts. Thus, it was not a program based on a manual; however when the patients wanted to work in a thematic way, the therapists supported this. The patients were fully informed about the purpose of the study, that participation was voluntarily, and that they could drop-out any time they wanted. Thereafter, they signed a consent form.


http://www.sexual-offender-treatment.org/2-2009_03.html
 
Still no statement from Canton Police Chief , as to why he was not present at the search? The only statement I have is from a reporter who asked the question, and the answer wasn't given. GBI did what needed to be done, but I'm wondering if Canton's Sheriff ever gave a feasible reason, considering the enormity of this murder.
 
I found this article interesting to help understand how the serial rapist/murder's mind works (or doesn't). It's actual interview with 4 repeat offenders in a discussion setting. They give input on motivation, and the cycle of offending:

Procedure

The structure within the group-treatment, which had been conducted since the mid 1980's, was quite loose. In the year 2000 two of the psychologists employed at the hospital were given the assignment to start group-therapy with rapists, properly documented and possible to evaluate. The therapy was established from a psychodynamic perspective, with influences of humanistic and existential thoughts. Thus, it was not a program based on a manual; however when the patients wanted to work in a thematic way, the therapists supported this. The patients were fully informed about the purpose of the study, that participation was voluntarily, and that they could drop-out any time they wanted. Thereafter, they signed a consent form.


http://www.sexual-offender-treatment.org/2-2009_03.html

Still reading this very interesting article you linked (thank you! :seeya:) and this bolded part jumped out to me.

The diagnoses for the four participants were: alcohol abuse and immature personality; narcissistic personality disorder; narcissistic personality disorder, antisocial personality disorder and sexual sadism; narcissistic personality disorder, sexual sadism and temporary psychosis. Three were born in Sweden, both parents being Swedish, and one man was born in a North-European country. All had completed nine years in state schools.

Though in Sweden, I'm guessing nine years in school would be the rough equivalent of ninth or tenth grade in American schools? IIRC, RB told the judge he had a tenth grade education. :waitasec: Interesting...
 
One thing I found unusual right from the start was after the arrest, some remark made by LE about how it would be "several months" until more is known, or something like that...I don't think I have ever heard that before, phrased in that way-what could they have that right away, they knew would take several months to process? EVen DNA could not really take that long anymore, IMO.
 
One thing I found unusual right from the start was after the arrest, some remark made by LE about how it would be "several months" until more is known, or something like that...I don't think I have ever heard that before, phrased in that way-what could they have that right away, they knew would take several months to process? EVen DNA could not really take that long anymore, IMO.

I think they were referring to the investigation they intended to do in areas RB previously lived, other counties, etc. I think they knew/suspected right away, as did we, that it would be really unusual if this were RB's first instance of abhorrent behavior. I believe they were referring to that area of the investigation may take months.

That was my take on it.
 
I think they were referring to the investigation they intended to do in areas RB previously lived, other counties, etc. I think they knew/suspected right away, as did we, that it would be really unusual if this were RB's first instance of abhorrent behavior. I believe they were referring to that area of the investigation may take months.

That was my take on it.

I understand what you are saying and I agree, but other than background information and maybe further charges, that really doesn't have anything to do with the case at hand. I mean they could go ahead and charge him and indict him witout that information if they have anough evidense. His past crimes if any, can not be brought into court on this case. It wil be nice to find out about his past, but why can't they go ahead and proceed with this one? This is puzzling me. jmo
 

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