GUILTY GA - Jorelys Rivera, 7, Canton, 2 Dec 2011 - #5

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nursebeeme said:
the only part of the article I agreed with was that they sealed off the complex early on and that could have prevented RB from taking the risk to move her from the complex..

the rest seemed like a bunch of cya
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Agreed on the sealing the complex early on. But ... I dunno, I'm kind of of the mind that dumping her in the dumpster was his plan all along.
 
Hickory Born said:
That part of the Atlanta Journal article bothered me also. But we all must remember this man is trying to cover his azz. IMO and from past experiences with my own children, a 7 year old runs away "immediately" (for a few minutes) when they are angry and by the next day they have forgotten all about it.

Here is the part in article we are speaking about:

Investigators, according to Lance, were told Jorelys had an argument with her mother the previous evening and she had probably run away from home. And things weren't perfect at home.

ALSO, show me ONE house where things are perfect at home!
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I don't like this article at all. It seems to be trying to find a nice way to say, "if it was a child that didn't have any issues at all at home, or a neighborhood in which no kid had ever hid out at a friend's house or outside, then we would have tried harder."
They seem to be shifting the blame back to the family.
The only productive thing I get out of this article is that from now on, LE should be aware that children who are often unsupervised may be being targeted by local child offenders or would-be child offenders, and a missing child call regarding one of these chlildren should be taken very seriously because of it.
 
nursebeeme said:
http://www.ajc.com/news/cherokee/canton-police-chief-recounts-1301480.html

must read article... too much to snip

police chief talks about cadaver dog searches, some more info on the case, why he was not there on Saturday until 10am, and how their early presence/closing off the property may have kept RB from taking her body out of the complex
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I didn't realize they had found the crime scene before they found her.

But what most of the public didn't know, said Lance, was that -- even with the GBI and FBI assisting in the investigation by the third day, it was work by the Canton police detective who finally broke the case open when they discovered the crime scene and realized she was not simply missing.
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Hickory Born said:
I am lost with this comment. Did GMAM let RB sleep in her apt? Does she live at the same apt complex? I was unaware that RB wasn't in his own apt. during those investigative days. Can you point me to a source?

If the kiddie *advertiser censored* was on his computer until Dec. 6, I surmise he had access to his computer during those investigative days. I don't think LE would have deleted that website on Dec. 6.
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According to GMAM posts, her grandson & RB were roommates. So when LE was searching the apartment, apparently both boys stayed with the roommates parents. At the time, they thought they knew RB well & they did not suspect him. They thought all the maintenance workers were being looked at. The roommate had a job where he clocks in. There was some speculation on this forum that the roommate could have set RB up but the roommate provided evidence to LE that he was at work during that time (according to roomie's grandma). In light of what is now known, Grandma is horrified that RB stayed with her son's family in their apartment.
 
Magdalyn said:
Thanks for posting this. :)

What bothers me is .... He didn't know about CART? Isn't it his JOB to know about CART? Whether you've ever needed the resource, I'd think it'd be his job to know it's an available resource. I mean, it's a resource for missing children. A real possibility. CART is not some obscure resourse only known by the Justice League. Sigh. I'm glad he knows about the resource now.

Everyone deserves to defend themselves and present their side. But ... the thrust of this article seemed heavily defensive to me, and not appropriately circumspect regarding the victim/victims family.

Example: Lance dismissed the father's criticism. He treasures a card that the Rivera and Torres family sent to thank the department for their care and concern, and for all the sleepless nights they spent on the case.

Well I'm glad Lance has a thank you card he treasures and he can dismiss Jorelys' father's words. WTF?

This article felt more like PR damage control for Jeff Lance and the Canton Police Department than anything really informative, or is it just me?

It might just be me... :crazy:
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Isn't Canton a very small town?

Has something like this ever happened concerning another little child in Canton before Joreyls' case?

I am not taking up for him. His department made blunders in this case that is for certain but sometimes I wonder if it is because they have never had to deal with cases like this before?

It seems the other missing children were found within a few short hours alive and well.

IMO
 
oceanblueeyes said:
Isn't Canton a very small town?
Has something like this ever happened concerning another little child in Canton before Joreyls' case?

I am not taking up for him. His department made blunders in this case that is for certain but sometimes I wonder if it is because they have never had to deal with cases like this before?

It seems the other missing children were found within a few short hours alive and well.

IMO
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BBM

No. Not at all. Canton, as well as Cherokee county has exploded in population in the last 10 years.

Canton's poulation in 2010 was 22,724

In 2000 it was 7,709.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canton,_Georgia
 
stillwatersc said:
According to GMAM posts, her grandson & RB were roommates. So when LE was searching the apartment, apparently both boys stayed with the roommates parents. At the time, they thought they knew RB well & they did not suspect him. They thought all the maintenance workers were being looked at. The roommate had a job where he clocks in. There was some speculation on this forum that the roommate could have set RB up but the roommate provided evidence to LE that he was at work during that time (according to roomie's grandma). In light of what is now known, Grandma is horrified that RB stayed with her son's family in their apartment.
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Thank you Stillwatersc. I must not have read all her past comments. Appreciate the background info :)
 
oceanblueeyes said:
Thank you so much, Magdalyn but isnt that still considered a small town?

imo
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I suppose it's relative. :crazy: I followed the Celina Cass case and I consider Stewartstown, NH a 'small town'. (One school for K-12, 48 SQ miles, population of 1000).

Compared to City of Atlanta, Canton is smaller. But Canton is by no means 'small town' comparatively in Georgia.

http://www.city-data.com/city/Georgia3.html

Canton consists of close to 23,000 people in 14 squares miles. Canton is no one stop light/one school town. :seeya:

We actually now have school overcrowding problems in Cherokee. I'd like to think that with a population of 22,000, 1/3 of that population being children, that my police department would know they can call CART if my kid goes missing.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
Thank you so much, Magdalyn but isnt that still considered a small town?

imo
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Compared to NYC or Atlanta, yes it is...but I wouldn't have chosen Canton to buy a home and raise my children if it was the type of city people think of when they hear "small town"..there are over 20 elementary schools in Cherokee County. There is a wide range of both apartment housing and large, golf-club type neighborhoods. There are 4 public libraries within easy driving distance of my home. There are several major strip malls, every restaurant you can think of...it is not a one-Walmart and two-gas station town, there are gas stations at most intersections. There is a good diverse mix of economic and racial backgrounds. Of course our home prices sound low compared to our Northern friends, however compared to other areas of suburban Atlanta, Canton is one of the "nicer" areas. There are some of the previous generation that have lived here before the developments, and they still carry their small town ways, but overall this is mostly college-educated, married young families.
I don't mean to come across as defensive, but I drive through "small towns" on my way to vacation, and those are not what I live in at all. We are 30 minutes north of Atlanta, not on a peanut farm in south GA.

Now, Dahlonega, GA, where RB lived before, is what I would call a "small town".
 
Hickory Born said:
I am lost with this comment. Did GMAM let RB sleep in her apt? Does she live at the same apt complex? I was unaware that RB wasn't in his own apt. during those investigative days. Can you point me to a source?

If the kiddie *advertiser censored* was on his computer until Dec. 6, I surmise he had access to his computer during those investigative days. I don't think LE would have deleted that website on Dec. 6.
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I was trying to figure that out. I think that it might mean LE took possession of the evidence on DEC 6 so that meant RB was not in possession of it any longer.
 
marazul said:
Compared to NYC or Atlanta, yes it is...but I wouldn't have chosen Canton to buy a home and raise my children if it was the type of city people think of when they hear "small town"..there are over 20 elementary schools in Cherokee County. There is a wide range of both apartment housing and large, golf-club type neighborhoods. There are 4 public libraries within easy driving distance of my home. There are several major strip malls, every restaurant you can think of...it is not a one-Walmart and two-gas station town, there are gas stations at most intersections. There is a good diverse mix of economic and racial backgrounds. Of course our home prices sound low compared to our Northern friends, however compared to other areas of suburban Atlanta, Canton is one of the "nicer" areas. There are some of the previous generation that have lived here before the developments, and they still carry their small town ways, but overall this is mostly college-educated, married young families.
I don't mean to come across as defensive, but I drive through "small towns" on my way to vacation, and those are not what I live in at all. We are 30 minutes north of Atlanta, not on a peanut farm in south GA.

Now, Dahlonega, GA, where RB lived before, is what I would call a "small town".
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:floorlaugh: Now lets don't go talking about peanut farms in south Georgia or Jimmy Carter may get upset.:floorlaugh: J/K I am from south Georgia and my county has a population of 28K+ and is one of the fastest growing counties in the state along with Paulding Co. but I still consider my county to be a small population even though new businesses are booming here and going up all the time. We have some of the top rated schools in the state too which is very good.

The county neighboring mine has over 200K in it and it is just minutes away from me but they have a terrible problem with violent crimes. In 2009 they were rated 56th most violent city in the nation.

But crime in my county is very low and I dont remember ever seeing a case of a missing child here that wound up raped and murdered but it does happen in the neighboring county I mentioned.

IMO
 
I guess my original point is/was, no matter the size/population of a town, the head of a city police department should have an idea a statewide resource exists to find missing children, should he/she ever need it. I have a really hard time fathoming that Jeff Lance had no idea CART existed and was an available resource. The fact that they've never had a case like this doesn't really excuse a lack of knowledge of a major resource, IMO.

It's their job to know what to do and have a plan in place. While an overall case like Jorelys' is rare, a missing/possibly abducted child (which, as far as they knew initially, was what she was) is not an inconceivable scenario. Kids can be adbucted from any town, big or small, whether it's happened there before or not. It's enough of a possiblility that our state has this resource to call into quick response action when a child is missing/possibly endangered. And Lance didn't know we had that resource? :waitasec:
 
I'm probably going to get flamed for my comments to follow and in NO WAY are they my opinion of Jorelys and her mom. I think you know how much I care about this case and how it has affected me. And I hope to God I am wrong that Lance had this mindset but, IMO once you start getting into the top and lower third of the state, you're going to run into good ole boy country politics which includes, but is not limited to, a lot of DURRRRR and hyuck-hyuck, be it real or just played. If you ain't from 'round here, boy, you ain't gonna get top priority. But I call bull $*** that he didn't know that was an available resource. He's been with Canton since 19-freaking-91. Granted, when I was in that area from 95-99, Canton was a lot smaller and not as racially integrated, but the Atlanta surrounding area has exploded in population in the last 10-15 years (as I'm sure many places have). I have a feeling if it weren't for the horrific death she had, this case may have not been as high profile as it has been because she is a minority. I'm sure good ole boy Lance thought he had some little Mexican girl who's momma doesn't keep an eye on her and her momma probably already has 6 other kids anyway so we won't put too much emphasis on this. And now that he's been caught, he's gotta cover his butt with whatever BS feigned ignorance he can come up with.

(and yes, I know Jorelys is not Mexican)
 
milagoddess said:
I'm probably going to get flamed for my comments to follow and in NO WAY are they my opinion of Jorelys and her mom. I think you know how much I care about this case and how it has affected me. And I hope to God I am wrong that Lance had this mindset but, IMO once you start getting into the top and lower third of the state, you're going to run into good ole boy country politics which includes, but is not limited to, a lot of DURRRRR and hyuck-hyuck, be it real or just played. If you ain't from 'round here, boy, you ain't gonna get top priority. But I call bull $*** that he didn't know that was an available resource. He's been with Canton since 19-freaking-91. Granted, when I was in that area from 95-99, Canton was a lot smaller and not as racially integrated, but the Atlanta surrounding area has exploded in population in the last 10-15 years (as I'm sure many places have). I have a feeling if it weren't for the horrific death she had, this case may have not been as high profile as it has been because she is a minority. I'm sure good ole boy Lance thought he had some little Mexican girl who's momma doesn't keep an eye on her and her momma probably already has 6 other kids anyway so we won't put too much emphasis on this. And now that he's been caught, he's gotta cover his butt with whatever BS feigned ignorance he can come up with.

(and yes, I know Jorelys is not Mexican)
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I don't know, that may have been part of it. I was thinking that may have been RB's thinking as to how he could pull this off.

One thing that I'm not sure of. Correct me if I'm wrong. Was it true that LE shut down for the night on Friday night? I assume that is true because FRI night is when RB disposed of the body and "cleaned" the apartment. I'm wondering if Jorelys was not dead during the "early part" of the search. I'm wondering if RB killed Jorelys after the cops left the complex and then disposed of her body late that night.

I know the standard line is Jorelys was killed 1.5 hours after her abduction. I just wonder if that is 100% true. If they kept looking maybe she would have been frond alive bound in the vacant apartment.
 
milagoddess said:
I'm probably going to get flamed for my comments to follow and in NO WAY are they my opinion of Jorelys and her mom. I think you know how much I care about this case and how it has affected me. And I hope to God I am wrong that Lance had this mindset but, IMO once you start getting into the top and lower third of the state, you're going to run into good ole boy country politics which includes, but is not limited to, a lot of DURRRRR and hyuck-hyuck, be it real or just played. If you ain't from 'round here, boy, you ain't gonna get top priority. But I call bull $*** that he didn't know that was an available resource. He's been with Canton since 19-freaking-91. Granted, when I was in that area from 95-99, Canton was a lot smaller and not as racially integrated, but the Atlanta surrounding area has exploded in population in the last 10-15 years (as I'm sure many places have). I have a feeling if it weren't for the horrific death she had, this case may have not been as high profile as it has been because she is a minority. I'm sure good ole boy Lance thought he had some little Mexican girl who's momma doesn't keep an eye on her and her momma probably already has 6 other kids anyway so we won't put too much emphasis on this. And now that he's been caught, he's gotta cover his butt with whatever BS feigned ignorance he can come up with.

(and yes, I know Jorelys is not Mexican)
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I'm not gonna flame you. I think this is a possibility.

It's really bothered me that for weeks Lance has refused to say why he wasn't on the scene coordinating things initially. It made me wonder if either he was doing something he REALLY shouldn't have been doing and it would be humiliating/wife angering/whatever to admit why he wasn't 'available', or he was at home, picking his nose, blowing off the seriousness, and now he's working double time covering his six.

To me, that he was unaware of CART as a police resource is about as believable as a local community doctor in Georgia being unaware of the CDC or Poison Control.
 
cat thief said:
I don't know, that may have been part of it. I was thinking that may have been RB's thinking as to how he could pull this off.

One thing that I'm not sure of. Correct me if I'm wrong. Was it true that LE shut down for the night on Friday night? I assume that is true because FRI night is when RB disposed of the body and "cleaned" the apartment. I'm wondering if Jorelys was not dead during the "early part" of the search. I'm wondering if RB killed Jorelys after the cops left the complex and then disposed of her body late that night.

I know the standard line is Jorelys was killed 1.5 hours after her abduction. I just wonder if that is 100% true. If they kept looking maybe she would have been frond alive bound in the vacant apartment.
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That is a good question. Can the medical examiner pinpoint death to an "exact" hour? I don't know the science behind that. Are there any experts on here who could answer this?
 
cat thief said:
I don't know, that may have been part of it. I was thinking that may have been RB's thinking as to how he could pull this off.

One thing that I'm not sure of. Correct me if I'm wrong. Was it true that LE shut down for the night on Friday night? I assume that is true because FRI night is when RB disposed of the body and "cleaned" the apartment. I'm wondering if Jorelys was not dead during the "early part" of the search. I'm wondering if RB killed Jorelys after the cops left the complex and then disposed of her body late that night.

I know the standard line is Jorelys was killed 1.5 hours after her abduction. I just wonder if that is 100% true. If they kept looking maybe she would have been frond alive bound in the vacant apartment.
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IIRC, the police searched the complex 'through the night' Friday night and that they went through the vacant apartments Friday night ... and saw the 'nose bleed' amount of blood and what they thought was poo around the toilet. Jorelys was already in the dumpster while cops were there. Or at the very least, she was no longer in that apartment.

Let me see if I can find a link.
 
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