General Discussion Thread #5

[Interested Bystander]

Judge revealed for the case - a lady?

http://news.iafrica.com/sa/894244.html

 

[Estelle]

Judge revealed for the case - a lady?

http://news.iafrica.com/sa/894244.html

On 18/1/2014, Barry Bateman reported in the link above that South Gauteng High Court Judge Thokozile Masipa will preside over the murder case against OP. Masipa was appointed as a high court judge in 1998 and was the second black woman to be appointed to the bench. Beeld reported Masipa was not specially chosen to handle this case.

So who is Thokozile Masipa?

At age 66yo, Mapisa is a former journalist, social worker and advocate and the country's second black woman judge.

On 21/1/2014, Ernest Mabuza reported in the Herald that Masipa "has strong views."

Mapisa's "strong views" are reflected in the following statements: "Helpless, defenceless women feel unsafe, even in the sanctity of their own homes, and look to these courts to protect their interests and the courts can protect these interests by meting out harsh sentences. Although the modern-day approach to punishment should emphasise rehabilitation and prevention, especially when the accused is young, in that case she believed deterrence should play a more prominent role because of the seriousness and prevalence of the offence."

http://www.peherald.com/news/article/23060

Here are some of the other points he made:

1. Mapisa has spoken out strongly on violence against women and has made it clear that no one is above the law.

2. OP's trial will put Masipa in the spotlight, however, with more than 15 years of experience on the bench, including in a number of high-profile trials, she is unlikely to be fazed by the attention.

3. Many of the cases Mapisa has presided over have made headlines and they range from rape and murder trials to evictions and civil claims involving millions of rands.

4 In 2013, Masipa sentenced notorious house robber and rapist Shepherd Moyo to 252 years in prison.

5. In 2001, Mapisa sentenced two rapists to life imprisonment, saying the unprecedented spate of violence, especially rape against women and children, was escalating at an alarming rate.

6. In 2009, Masipa made news when she sentenced a policeman who shot his former wife to life imprisonment.

7. In 2010, Mapisa dismissed an application by former Eskom chief executive Jacob Maroga, who was challenging the termination of his contract and seeking R85-million compensation.

 

[Estelle]

Supplement to my post above:

Question 3.

Rugby FH?
WL?

I cannot accept that RS would have tried to blackmail either WL or FH. What would she have tried to blackmail them about? She seemed to remain friends with both of them which IMO would not have been the case if she had tried to blackmail either of them.

They have both come out and lovingly spoken about their sadness in the murder of RS. FH claimed in an article that he had not sent RS a text message since they ended their romance in 2012 and she began dating OP. But I often wonder how the media got the idea that FH sent a text message to RS if it was not true. Also, I noticed that FH is not being called as a witness by the Prosecution.

 

[Estelle]

20/1/2014

OP's lawyers are reportedly negotiating an out-of-court settlement with the parents of his slain girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp.

The settlement could net them around 2 million rand ($209,000).

RS's parents are said to have been financially stretched since the death of RS. They are now running a pub outside Port Elizabeth. It is understood they purchased the pub with money paid for interviews by foreign media. They are unwilling to say how much compensation they are asking from OP.

http://www.news.com.au/world/brekki...lton-john-lovers/story-fndir2ev-1226805488739

Does this report appear in any other media?

I would expect more than $209,000 for the death of my daughter!

I have been thinking about what would be a fair settlement for RS' parents and came up with this idea:

IMO OP has never expressed any remorse for being responsible for RS death, if I were RS' parents, I would expect him to buy us:

1. A house worth over 2 million rand.

2. An investment fund in both their names to draw at least R30 thousand interest per month for the rest of their lives.

3. A new car to last them for the rest of their lives.

What this murderer cannot do is bring Reeva back to life.

Whatever, happens in the trial, OP is still responsible for her death and damages to her loving parents whom she supported financially.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I cannot accept that RS would have tried to blackmail either WL or FH. What would she have tried to blackmail them about? She seemed to remain friends with both of them which IMO would not have been the case if she had tried to blackmail either of them.

They have both come out and lovingly spoken about their sadness in the murder of RS. FH claimed in an article that he had not sent RS a text message since they ended their romance in 2012 and she began dating OP. But I often wonder how the media got the idea that FH sent a text message to RS if it was not true. Also, I noticed that FH is not being called as a witness by the Prosecution.

<modsnip>

My answer referred to this, not to the question about blackmailing. :smile:

 

[Interested Bystander]

National 3.1.2014 07.06 am

Intense interest in Oscar trial from world’s media

The world’s media will converge on South Africa’s busiest court, the North Gauteng High Court, early in March when the murder trial of Paralympian Oscar Pistorius is expected to commence.

It is expected that television channels from all over the world will seek permission to broadcast the trial directly, turning it into the South African equivalent of the avidly watched OJ Simpson murder trial in America. The High Court has in recent years often allowed television cameras inside court, but has mostly confined permission for coverage before and during breaks in proceedings and judgment.

The first charge relates to a January 2013 incident at Tasha’s restaurant in Melrose Arch, Johannesburg, when Pistorius allegedly discharged a pistol. He is alternatively charged with damaging the restaurant’s floor by the negligent use of the pistol and endangering the lives of other guests at the restaurant by recklessly discharging a firearm.

The second charge relates to an incident in September 2010 when Pistorius allegedly fired a shot through the open sunroof of a car near Modderfontein in Kempton Park while driving with his ex-girlfriend Samantha Taylor and other people.

Prominent lawyer and academic Llewelyn Curlewis last year said he believed Pistorius’s case would rest on his own evidence and how he fared under cross-examination by the State.

http://citizen.co.za/105610/intense-interest-oscar-trial-worlds-media/

BBB1 I have never heard that he damaged the restaurant floor before.

BBB2 Who were the other people in the car with Samantha and OP?

BBB3 It looks as if OP will have to take the stand himself and face up to cross-examination by the Judge. I am looking forward to observing how he handles that.

Do you think there is a chance he will plead guilty now and rely on mitigating circumstances? If so, when would he do that or would he have already done that?

I have read of the floor being damaged:-

http://news.asiaone.com/print/News/AsiaOne+News/Crime/Story/A1Story20130220-403366.html

I have also read that there was a passenger in the car. Unless my memory is playing tricks, I think it was a manfriend (as well as S) and that they all were returning from a holiday together. However, I can no longer track down the article.

I think there is more likelihood that he might commit suicide rather than admit guilt UNLESS his DT have come up with huge mitigating circumstances of which, as yet, we know nothing. If the DT do not have a very strong defence he will know that he will be in jail for a very long time and I don't think he is the type to be able to deal with that scenario.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

<modsnip>

My answer referred to this, not to the question about blackmailing. :smile:

I would really appreciate your giving us links to where it has been quoted that RS had violent outbursts with Warren and Francois as I have never heard of them.

.................................................................
........................................ [/quote]

I didn't make an allegation but merely suspected. Both initials had a question mark behind.

I shouldn't have done, sorry.

 

[kittychi]

This is the first time I have seen this article. The comments are also interesting, one in particular, though I have no way of knowing whether it is true. I imagine that we would have heard of some of this before now, if it were true.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...us-trial-killing-girlfriend#start-of-comments

If you check out the twitter handle @_WallsHaveEars, you will see cryptic tweets and interactions with other tweeters with similar accusations against Reeva. I stumbled upon that when I was looking at different hashtags referring to Reeva Steenkamp. There definitely is a group of haters. IMO they are trying to justify her murder.

:sick:

 

[Lyra500]

That is an absolute disgrace.

Every report until now has portrayed her as a lovely girl with absolutely no suggestion that she was violent or aggressive.

It seems sad that people are repeating and spreading these allegations because the more this happens the more they pick up a patina of 'truth' even though there is no corroboration from any trustworthy source.

I am afraid it just reinforces my view that OP and his family and supporters have no integrity and no class.

Wow. I am afraid that is a bit of a stroppy maiden post.:blushing:

 

[Coldpizza]

:welcome: Lyra500

Glad you joined the discussion!

 

[Lyra500]

:welcome: Lyra500

Glad you joined the discussion!

Thank you

It is good to find a forum discussing this case which is not overrun with people trying to dismiss the glaring holes in OP's version of events.

 

[Estelle]

Thank you

It is good to find a forum discussing this case which is not overrun with people trying to dismiss the glaring holes in OP's version of events.

On 18/1/2014, Barry Bateman reported in the link above that South Gauteng High Court Judge Thokozile Masipa will preside over the murder case against OP. Masipa was appointed as a high court judge in 1998 and was the second black woman to be appointed to the bench. Beeld reported Masipa was not specially chosen to handle this case.

So who is Thokozile Masipa?

At age 66yo, Mapisa is a former journalist, social worker and advocate and the country's second black woman judge.

On 21/1/2014, Ernest Mabuza reported in the Herald that Masipa "has strong views."

Mapisa's "strong views" are reflected in the following statements: "Helpless, defenceless women feel unsafe, even in the sanctity of their own homes, and look to these courts to protect their interests and the courts can protect these interests by meting out harsh sentences. Although the modern-day approach to punishment should emphasise rehabilitation and prevention, especially when the accused is young, in that case she believed deterrence should play a more prominent role because of the seriousness and prevalence of the offence."

http://www.peherald.com/news/article/23060

Here are some of the other points he made:

1. Mapisa has spoken out strongly on violence against women and has made it clear that no one is above the law.

2. OP's trial will put Masipa in the spotlight, however, with more than 15 years of experience on the bench, including in a number of high-profile trials, she is unlikely to be fazed by the attention.

3. Many of the cases Mapisa has presided over have made headlines and they range from rape and murder trials to evictions and civil claims involving millions of rands.

4 In 2013, Masipa sentenced notorious house robber and rapist Shepherd Moyo to 252 years in prison.

5. In 2001, Mapisa sentenced two rapists to life imprisonment, saying the unprecedented spate of violence, especially rape against women and children, was escalating at an alarming rate.

6. In 2009, Masipa made news when she sentenced a policeman who shot his former wife to life imprisonment.

7. In 2010, Mapisa dismissed an application by former Eskom chief executive Jacob Maroga, who was challenging the termination of his contract and seeking R85-million compensation.

I am surprised none of you have commented on this post so far so I will make my own comments.

I feel confident now that this Judge will deliver the justice to OP that we have all been hoping for as long as the Prosecution have the necessary evidence.

 

[Estelle]

Thank you

It is good to find a forum discussing this case which is not overrun with people trying to dismiss the glaring holes in OP's version of events.

I have read of the floor being damaged:-

http://news.asiaone.com/print/News/AsiaOne+News/Crime/Story/A1Story20130220-403366.html

I have also read that there was a passenger in the car. Unless my memory is playing tricks, I think it was a manfriend (as well as S) and that they all were returning from a holiday together. However, I can no longer track down the article.

I think there is more likelihood that he might commit suicide rather than admit guilt UNLESS his DT have come up with huge mitigating circumstances of which, as yet, we know nothing. If the DT do not have a very strong defence he will know that he will be in jail for a very long time and I don't think he is the type to be able to deal with that scenario.

Thank you

It is good to find a forum discussing this case which is not overrun with people trying to dismiss the glaring holes in OP's version of events.

I have read of the floor being damaged:-

http://news.asiaone.com/print/News/AsiaOne+News/Crime/Story/A1Story20130220-403366.html

I have also read that there was a passenger in the car. Unless my memory is playing tricks, I think it was a manfriend (as well as S) and that they all were returning from a holiday together. However, I can no longer track down the article.

I think there is more likelihood that he might commit suicide rather than admit guilt UNLESS his DT have come up with huge mitigating circumstances of which, as yet, we know nothing. If the DT do not have a very strong defence he will know that he will be in jail for a very long time and I don't think he is the type to be able to deal with that scenario.

I think it was Darren Fresco who was in the car with Samantha and OP who will be a witness at the trial but I could not find the link now.

It has appeared to me that OP has always earlier got away with everything except murder by paying people off or by asking other people to take the rap on his behalf because of his celebrity status!

To get him into court for his trial IMO both his family, friends and lawyers would have had to convince him that he is going to win this case as he is not accustomed to feeling like a loser about to face at least 25 years in prison.

So if he has not been brainwashed to believe he will get off, I would have expected him to either commit suicide by now or to have escaped to a country without an extradition agreement. I guess there is always enough time for that before March.

I have also been surprised that no further public sightings of him have been reported by the media as he could feel like a caged lion at his uncle's house.

Has OP's apartment been sold yet?

.

 

[Estelle]

I did a search to find out if OP's apartment has been sold yet and this is what I found.

The luxury Silver Woods Estate home in Pretoria East where Oscar Pistorius' girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp, was killed last week has been on the market since 2011, according to a report on Tuesday.

Ina Laubscher, an estate agent for Pam Golding properties, told Beeld newspaper that by September 2011, when the sale of the house became her responsibility, the property had been on the market for months.

The asking price for the four bedroom home is R6.5 million.

"In the current market it is very difficult to sell such an expensive home," Laubscher said.

She said she was not sure why Pistorius was trying to sell it, but that he did not seem to be in a hurry to conclude a sale.

"There have been times when prospective buyers wanted to see it, but Oscar was often not available to show them around or negotiate over the price," Laubscher said.

The house, with a property size of 1045 square metres and a floor area of 580 square metres, has four bedrooms, four bathrooms, five reception rooms, three garages and a swimming pool.

http://www.thenewage.co.za/Detail.aspx?news_id=83608&cat_id=1007

 

[kittychi]

To get him into court for his trial IMO both his family, friends and lawyers would have had to convince him that he is going to win this case as he is not accustomed to feeling like a loser about to face at least 25 years in prison.

So if he has not been brainwashed to believe he will get off, I would have expected him to either commit suicide by now or to have escaped to a country without an extradition agreement. I guess there is always enough time for that before March.

.

BBM - My thinking also, Estelle. I don't see him ever thinking he will lose. Surrounding himself with supportive family and "Pistorians" has probably shielded him and helped maintain that state of mind.

He also probably spends all his time reading the Bible and stays away from social media.
:floorlaugh:

 

[Lyra500]

I am surprised none of you have commented on this post so far so I will make my own comments.

I feel confident now that this Judge will deliver the justice to OP that we have all been hoping for as long as the Prosecution have the necessary evidence.

I agree.

This judge sounds as if she has a lot of integrity and will not be a pushover or won over by OP's celebrity status.

Sadly I think OP embodies a truly toxic mix of arrogance, aggression and self worth. His hero status just fed his sense of entitlement and self importance. Add in a gun obsession and he was a horrible tragedy just waiting to happen.

 

[Lemon Tree]

I am surprised none of you have commented on this post so far so I will make my own comments.

I feel confident now that this Judge will deliver the justice to OP that we have all been hoping for as long as the Prosecution have the necessary evidence.

I've been away from WS for a while, but am back as things start to heat up. Thanks again for (all of) your intelligent posts and discussions.

I think the judge has a credible background and hope she is above the 'usual suspects' of fear, favour and (political) influence - especially since OP was SA's poster boy for many years.

What concerns me most is the evidence that may not be admitted due to police and/ or pros. errors. If, say, the door isn't allowed or other evidence from the possibly contaminated bathroom/ toilet, first urine sample, etc., then justice may not be served for RS nor OP. If key evidence isn't admitted and OP gets off or is given a light sentence (eg Suspended CH), then questions of will forever haunt him.

I dearly hope for a fair trial full of unimpeachable evidence and witness/ expert testimony, but most of all, I hope OP takes the stand - I think his arrogance will sink him if he is allowed to be cross-examined.

 

[Estelle]

I've been away from WS for a while, but am back as things start to heat up. Thanks again for (all of) your intelligent posts and discussions.

I think the judge has a credible background and hope she is above the 'usual suspects' of fear, favour and (political) influence - especially since OP was SA's poster boy for many years.

What concerns me most is the evidence that may not be admitted due to police and/ or pros. errors. If, say, the door isn't allowed or other evidence from the possibly contaminated bathroom/ toilet, first urine sample, etc., then justice may not be served for RS nor OP. If key evidence isn't admitted and OP gets off or is given a light sentence (eg Suspended CH), then questions of will forever haunt him.

I dearly hope for a fair trial full of unimpeachable evidence and witness/ expert testimony, but most of all, I hope OP takes the stand - I think his arrogance will sink him if he is allowed to be cross-examined.

Good post, Lemon Tree. I think his cross-examination is essential but is he able to avoid that? I am not sure of the rules in South Africa.

Predicting how OP thinks is that he would expect to represent South Africa again in 2016 at least in the Paralympics to get his sponsors back on board to renew his income as athletics is all he knows about although he comes from a rich family and is likely to inherit money one day.

But the quality of the evidence and the witnesses will be the key as to whether justice will be achieved for Reeva.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I believe he need not take the stand but it would definitely count against him. I also feel he is far more likely to flee the country or commit suicide (probably the former) when time runs out at the end of February than at any previous point. He will, at that time, begin to really feel the pressure of being found guilty and spending 15/25 years in jail - that may just push him over the edge.

If he does take the stand I think we are more likely to see a rather pityful act and his arrogance (which is not doubted) will be very under control. There will be more crocodile tears and handwringing.

I do agree that cracks in the evidence could scupper this trial and that is why earlier, in the poll, I thought he may get away with CH. It most definitely is not what I think he deserves but the court's "hands" may be tied if witness and/or physical evidence is weak or disallowed.

 

[Pisto_lius]

Hello to everybody - I'm back again :seeya: But I'm afraid I'll unable to be present as often as before because of my job.

Regarding the forthcoming OP trial: I also don't believe he will take the stand because he and his defense team are aware that in cross-examination his lies would break his neck.

But because I'm a bad boy I hope he will! And furthermore I hope prosecutors will make a strong case.