GUILTY HI - Carly Joann 'Charli' Scott, 27, pregnant, Makawao, 9 Feb 2014 - #3

[puakenikeni]

Here's a photo of her burned 4Runner that shows the interior.
One of those news articles last week about the motions said that accelerant was used inside the vehicle. Probably poured gas on it.

 

[heartgoesout]

And don't forget we have the grill of her car that turned up. God I hope they could trace that back to him.

 

[puakenikeni]

Phaedra lists what she found at about 1:30 of this video on the Maui Watch page:
https://www.facebook.com/MAUIWatch/posts/10152690800589782

blouse, skirt, blanket, two empty rolls of duct tape -- and gray jacket and black pants that did not belong to Charli. (plus something Charli had given to Phaedra that I can't hear).

She also says the shoes have been found, at this point it is Saturday.

 

[puakenikeni]

Yes, the grill, that should be interesting to hear.

It took a while to find some video footage with a shot of the pile of clothes. It's brief and you don't see a lot, but you can see it's amidst what is called guinea grass and some other vegetation, and the narrator says it was found by the side of "the highway" -- but I think that was a mistake and the road was the dirt road to Paraquat's.

It's at 1:25 in the video that you get the shot. If you watch the video on full screen it helps.
[video=youtube;okAIVIIT2pU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okAIVIIT2pU[/video]

No one walks straight through guinea grass on purpose because of the super irritating hairs on the blades that will get in your skin and itch and burn. People usually try to find trails through it, human or pig trails. So this looks like it's tucked away close to a road or path but knowing people aren't likely to casually walk there (barring a search party).

 

[Napili]

Just taking this lime idea further, and bouncing off NL:
1. Is it correct that group B ( the body parts ) were found the day AFTER group A ( items of clothing, paraphernalia )? Perhaps they were not there until late that night? Suppose the finding of those articles had panicked him into removing the remains he'd planned to leave there? The lime theory would allow for this, as the more defleshed & peripheral parts (thin-skin parts like scalp, finger tips, & jaw) separate, fall out & scatter--especially in the dark, and even be further scattered of kicked around as he struggles with the tarp-wrapped, disintegrating body.
2.. She could have been murdered ON the blanket. Subdued for the drive--knocked out, drugged, or something else--but preferably no blood in the vehicle. Duct taped quiet and bound. Remember, Sunday could have given ample prep time--for finding the right hidden place to dig a girl-sized hole, place a waiting tarp in it, even stow a couple of large bags of lime... Unconscious or tied up -- fighting for her life and her child--he cold-blooded and also provoked. 20 wounds in the same spot. It sickens to think about all this. Grieves. Yet, it has to be examined. I want to know--would the full womb itself protect the mother from the stabs? As a barrier? Hence his grotesque stabbing repeating in a frenzy? Then, as he planned it, remove clothing, drag on blanket to tarp-lined depression, having lined it with ample lime. Next roll the body onto the bed of lime and cover thickly with the next bag and maybe another for good measure--the clothing having been removed to assure contact with the skin. Then, close up the tarp, sealing with the duct tape. That done, strip down and wash up. ...Why leave jeans, gloves, tape and her clothes? Didn't expect to be found, maybe. ...As was noted, it was the ping and only the ping that caused them to go to that site. And he was lazy (we heard) --so not apt to clean up his own mess.
3. Somewhere, I think she is in a large plastic bag. Maybe at the dump. I feel worst of all saying that. But, that would make sense, to my mind.
4. Referring to some talk earlier, about the grill and other car parts. AND Pua's (right?) making the connection between the robbery and the car part person--this house in Haiku where they found the grill, etc. this seems to be very important, and it's been largely dismissed. Girl once associated with SC gets robbed of jewelry & computers, tires also slashed--the stuff found months later, after the murder, at his house. But it sounds as if they only found out about the robbery because they had visited her house to investigate the SUV grill & other parts--then she reported the robbery AND the supposed perp--SC! Then the search of his house & finding the stolen items, proving his involvement with the house where the car parts were, right? What to make of all this?

 

[puakenikeni]

Hmm, I'm trying to imagine that area and what he was doing that left behind Group A and Group B. Since Group B (body parts) were scattered, seems logical he dropped them. Group A left in a pile because he hoped to return? Thought he'd find them again in the dark?

Could Charli have been rolled up in the blanket, carried through the grass with Group B being accidentally deposited along the way and then buried? Before he buried her he removed her clothes and took off his jeans and gloves and then headed back to the car to leave. Charli's cellphone rings or beeps with a text message and he drops everything in a panic.

OR

Charli murdered in her car and dragged to flat ground in her blanket so that he can use his machete to remove any identifiers. Group B removed, he rolls her naked body up in plastic and duct tape and buries her. He gathers up Group A and B in the blanket and heads to the car. He wants to burn Group B, should be easy right? Only some of Group B falls out and gets scattered along the way. Group A left in a pile and forgotten because cell phone rings or dog barks.

My only problem with this is the burying. To bury requires a shovel or spade. Her body didn't just disappear. I know MSAR searched high and low for her in that vicinity. Somewhere on a hillside she is wrapped in plastic.

This sounds right to me. I think the blanket being used to transport her makes sense.

I don't think he would murder her in the vehicle unless it was sudden rage, just because the chances of being seen are greater unless he can get it way off even the dirt road. But what I think makes sense isn't the same as being in his head, thankfully. This seems pre-meditated though, just badly planned and executed.

Definitely agree with the earlier comment that he wouldn't (if smart) throw clothes in the ocean. Maybe if out in a boat, and clothes bagged and weighted, in the deep water -- but not from the beach.

 

[heartgoesout]

I should have taken notes this whole time. I need a review of a good timeline with facts placed in.
If I find some time maybe I'll restart from thread one.

 

[heartgoesout]

I keep going back to he really didn't think he would be caught. It is a huge jungle. Chances of finding what he did was pretty slim.
Sloppy because he is that arrogant. He didn't expect the aftermath of his action.
Maybe it's just that simple.

 

[puakenikeni]

Just taking this lime idea further, and bouncing off NL:
1. Is it correct that group B ( the body parts ) were found the day AFTER group A ( items of clothing, paraphernalia )? Perhaps they were not there until late that night? Suppose the finding of those articles had panicked him into removing the remains he'd planned to leave there? The lime theory would allow for this, as the more defleshed & peripheral parts (thin-skin parts like scalp, finger tips, & jaw) separate, fall out & scatter--especially in the dark, and even be further scattered of kicked around as he struggles with the tarp-wrapped, disintegrating body.
2.. She could have been murdered ON the blanket. Subdued for the drive--knocked out, drugged, or something else--but preferably no blood in the vehicle. Duct taped quiet and bound. Remember, Sunday could have given ample prep time--for finding the right hidden place to dig a girl-sized hole, place a waiting tarp in it, even stow a couple of large bags of lime... Unconscious or tied up -- fighting for her life and her child--he cold-blooded and also provoked. 20 wounds in the same spot. It sickens to think about all this. Grieves. Yet, it has to be examined. I want to know--would the full womb itself protect the mother from the stabs? As a barrier? Hence his grotesque stabbing repeating in a frenzy? Then, as he planned it, remove clothing, drag on blanket to tarp-lined depression, having lined it with ample lime. Next roll the body onto the bed of lime and cover thickly with the next bag and maybe another for good measure--the clothing having been removed to assure contact with the skin. Then, close up the tarp, sealing with the duct tape. That done, strip down and wash up. ...Why leave jeans, gloves, tape and her clothes? Didn't expect to be found, maybe. ...As was noted, it was the ping and only the ping that caused them to go to that site. And he was lazy (we heard) --so not apt to clean up his own mess.
3. Somewhere, I think she is in a large plastic bag. Maybe at the dump. I feel worst of all saying that. But, that would make sense, to my mind.
4. Referring to some talk earlier, about the grill and other car parts. AND Pua's (right?) making the connection between the robbery and the car part person--this house in Haiku where they found the grill, etc. this seems to be very important, and it's been largely dismissed. Girl once associated with SC gets robbed of jewelry & computers, tires also slashed--the stuff found months later, after the murder, at his house. But it sounds as if they only found out about the robbery because they had visited her house to investigate the SUV grill & other parts--then she reported the robbery AND the supposed perp--SC! Then the search of his house & finding the stolen items, proving his involvement with the house where the car parts were, right? What to make of all this?

Taking the last part first, yay, I'm not the only one interested in that connection. The girl is on the witness list. There was also a TRO issued for him to stay away from her in the month or so when he was still out after he was charged with burglary, that showed up on the judiciary site.

Back to part one, really interesting idea that he would go back AFTER the clothing was found. Motive would be there to take care of identifying evidence, but how odd that it would be scattered. A couple things - Forerunner was already found burnt and it was that day that he gave the interview to HNN.

I could see him killing her on the blanket. I guess we'll hear if it had blood on it.
Good point that he was lazy and never cleaned up. That reminds me, he supposedly (FTL said) had his own truck detailed, and I think it was on Monday. Not to get rid of blood, because the detailer would see it, but other possible evidence?

 

[heartgoesout]

I'm sitting here pondering and I'm thinking wait a minute...the men that murdered my uncle as an example, made so many mistakes. Sloppy, sloppy mistakes. Left a trail right to them. It wasn't calculated. They were dumb, cocky and didn't think they'd be caught... Life without parole must suck.

Criminals are caught all the time because there is no perfect crime. The more I try to figure out what really happened that night, I keep thinking the simplest answer is usually the correct answer. He was just dumb, sloppy, and how often does one get a murder right?
Just me rambling in thought tonight.

 

[puakenikeni]

One thing about digging a hole in the jungle ... that I know from living in this type of terrain, is it can be incredibly resistant to a shovel. Basically because the roots of all the plants growing make this hard mass of plant matter that a shovel won't cut through. Not saying he couldn't find the right spot, but not just any spot will allow him to dig a hole of any size. The Hawaiians had/have a heavy hardwood or iron tool called an o'o for making holes in very hard ground. It has a digging end and the other end is for tamping down the soil.
I actually have one of these, and I'm not Hawaiian.
Description:
http://kms.kapalama.ksbe.edu/projects/ahupuaa/ahupuaa/poster47c/index.html
Image of the two ends:

 

[Mamamerced]

Where did you see the witness list, Pua?

 

[puakenikeni]

I keep going back to he really didn't think he would be caught. It is a huge jungle. Chances of finding what he did was pretty slim.
Sloppy because he is that arrogant. He didn't expect the aftermath of his action.
Maybe it's just that simple.

I can definitely see him being arrogant about the density of the jungle that he knew so well and others did not. I can see him not fathoming the depth of search that would be organized.

Honomanu and Paraquat's does have some differentiation from pure jungle. There are very few roads that are not private along the Hana Highway there, and I believe that this access is the first one that goes to the ocean after Haiku. So although it is mind boggling to think of searching the whole road to Hana, it is kind of a natural to check, IMO, because it has vehicle access and most of the terrain doesn't.
FTL said that the clothes were left where they would certainly be found, eventually. I've owned acreage very similar, and I could find in my own yard better places to stow clothing evidence than leaving it on top of vegetation. I'd at least put it on the ground inside a thick clump of grass.
Another thing to consider is the cadaver dogs. The clothes had a lot of blood on them. Dogs would be able to find them. At least he should have put them in plastic to cut down on the scent.
I don't have any trouble with imagining that someone came through while this was going on. What to us seems like jungle, is a second home to fishermen and hunters. This was an area where they camp. Locals also go night fishing for prawns in streams and it was near a stream.

 

[heartgoesout]

Or he's been digging a hole for awhile.

 

[heartgoesout]

respectfully snipped by me from Pua

"FTL said that the clothes were left where they would certainly be found, eventually." BY WHO? Maybe just himself.
"At least he should have put them in plastic to cut down on the scent." Maybe he did. But why would he think anyone would ever know where to look?
"What to us seems like jungle, is a second home to fishermen and hunters" HIS second home. He probably knew what areas weren't all that traveled.

Tonight I'm just feeling he's been given to much credit. He had a plan, followed through with it, and just didn't care about what were to him, minor details. No one ever thinks they'll be caught or they wouldn't do it in the first place.

 

[Napili]

My thought, too. he details his truck on Monday. But, which one?
Can someone help me get this straight?:
[Yes, SUV's are "trucks", but trucks are "trucks, too.]
...driving which vehicle to work, etc? His original truck (SUV also?)
...or "new" truck he was "buying" (truck or SUV?)?
..."seen driving a vehicle (type?) which wasn't his, in Hana...this perhaps the "new" veh.? (Truck or SUV? )
...if driving "new" veh. Does he still have old one?
...some, all 4runners?

***
--The body parts might fall out of the tarp...because defleshed.
--I thought the blanket had blood and maggots...according to reports?

 

[Napili]

Love your thoroughness, Pua'!
Re the hole, all he would need would be an indentation , say, on a slope, the right size, and foliage cover--roots & such could support the tarp, even. No digging necessary, just a good search beforehand for the perfect place. And then, covered with leaves, sticks, whatever..Is there such a place near where the blanket was found? Was the blanket found with the other items, or by itself?

 

[Nikki Lisette]

The lime doesn't fly with me after Loio said Rivera said "fingertips of the right hand."

Let's not forget SC's arson charge "to cover up his crime".

So he wants to burn the SUV quick and thoroughly because why? It has blood and shredded upholstery?

The grill was removed so that the SUV wasn't recognized but the plates were still on there when the SUV was burned. Why? So he wouldn't get pulled over for lack of plates? So he could still drive it?

And I agree with HGO that the simplest explanation is usually right.

The prosecution has to prove to the jury that SC caused Charli Scott's death. What is their smoking gun?

 

[Napili]

Can someone recall to me known details about SC's burns on his hands? Or did I imagine this?
Thanks!

 

[Nikki Lisette]

Pua, as hard as this is to say, the most soundproof place to hurt Charli and stab her would have been in the SUV. Range of motion is restricted. Poor Charli can hardly defend herself against the attacks.

Some of the holes in her skirt were eraser sized in diameter. Pua, how big is the point of the oohu? Jaw split in half, could it have been hit with the oohu?

The whole thing is so savage. It's so unnecessary.