How did the McCanns dispose of the body - how did they do it ?

[fabgod]

RE SEARCH DOGS ETC

A stark reminder of how both police and their dogs can get it wrong is the very recent case here in the UK of TIA SHARP. Last person to see her alive was her grandmother's boyfriend. Police with dogs searched the house FOUR times - yet somehow failed to find Tia's body which was in the loft.

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In order for Gerry and Kate to have killed their daughter (either deliberately or by accident) and then gone out to dinner, they both would have to be either sociopaths OR the most amazing actors. And they were with friends, people who knew them well, and who would surely have noticed if their behaviour was 'odd' in any respect.

So I simply don't buy that theory.

Do I think the McCanns were INSANE for leaving those kids alone? YES.

Do I think they possibly slipped them some Calpol or something to 'help' them sleep? YES, definitely possible in my view.

But I just don't think they could have somehow killed their daughter, hidden her body, and then carried on as normal.

RE the bolded section,
we have been through this before, the Police Officer in charge, stated clearly that it was Human error in the Tia Sharp case, whether that means the Dogs did alert or not, we don't know, but its a bit of a stretch to say the Dogs got it wrong, somebody did but we dont know in what circumstances.

I agree, I find it almost impossible to believe that the parents could have killed their child and then carried on without coming unstuck in every sense of the word.
I do believe though that they know a hell of a lot more about what happened than they admit to though, hopefully one day we will find out what.

 

[SapphireSteel]

RE SEARCH DOGS ETC

A stark reminder of how both police and their dogs can get it wrong is the very recent case here in the UK of TIA SHARP. Last person to see her alive was her grandmother's boyfriend. Police with dogs searched the house FOUR times - yet somehow failed to find Tia's body which was in the loft.

---------------------------------------------------------------------


In order for Gerry and Kate to have killed their daughter (either deliberately or by accident) and then gone out to dinner, they both would have to be either sociopaths OR the most amazing actors. And they were with friends, people who knew them well, and who would surely have noticed if their behaviour was 'odd' in any respect.

So I simply don't buy that theory.

Do I think the McCanns were INSANE for leaving those kids alone? YES.

Do I think they possibly slipped them some Calpol or something to 'help' them sleep? YES, definitely possible in my view.

But I just don't think they could have somehow killed their daughter, hidden her body, and then carried on as normal.

That's usually the stumbling block.

People just can't believe that the McCanns were capable.

Otherwise loving parents hurt and kill their children every day in our sad world. We know this. Once you suspend your emotion and look at cold hard fact, there is only one possible answer.

Please take some time to look at the footage of April Jones mother, the little girl in Wales who is currently missing, then compare it to the footage of Kate McCanns wooden performance asking for her daughter back. The McCanns actually aren't very good actors at all. She shows no grief.

They have relied on the good will of people like you, who simply cannot believe they can be involved.

The cadaver dogs have copped a fair bit of abuse in this case, but the fact is, they are eerily accurate.

Knowing this, how did the McCanns react when Eddie found cadaverine?

Did they go into a new wave of grief at the news their daughter was likely dead, and perhaps hold a private service?

No, they did not. They responded to the discovery of cadaverine by saying "the dogs are unreliable" and proceeding to thoroughly discredit them and the investigators using them.

Their reaction to the news their daughter was likely dead was to increase the PR. They did not grieve. This is the reaction of people who already knew, not freshly bereaved parents whose worst nightmare has come true.

:banghead:

Of course, my opinion only.

 

[Tabs1]

That's usually the stumbling block.

People just can't believe that the McCanns were capable.

Otherwise loving parents hurt and kill their children every day in our sad world. We know this. Once you suspend your emotion and look at cold hard fact, there is only one possible answer.

Please take some time to look at the footage of April Jones mother, the little girl in Wales who is currently missing, then compare it to the footage of Kate McCanns wooden performance asking for her daughter back. The McCanns actually aren't very good actors at all. She shows no grief.

They have relied on the good will of people like you, who simply cannot believe they can be involved.

The cadaver dogs have copped a fair bit of abuse in this case, but the fact is, they are eerily accurate.

Knowing this, how did the McCanns react when Eddie found cadaverine?

Did they go into a new wave of grief at the news their daughter was likely dead, and perhaps hold a private service?

No, they did not. They responded to the discovery of cadaverine by saying "the dogs are unreliable" and proceeding to thoroughly discredit them and the investigators using them.

Their reaction to the news their daughter was likely dead was to increase the PR. They did not grieve. This is the reaction of people who already knew, not freshly bereaved parents whose worst nightmare has come true.

:banghead:

Of course, my opinion only.

Just because Kate McCann was 'wooden' this does not automatically mean guilt. Some people shut down when they are under extreme stress. I'm not saying this was the case with Kate McCann, just that it is a possibility.

As for their denial when cadaverine was found - of course they would not want to believe their daughter was dead, so psychologically it rather makes sense that they would rather blame the dogs.

I do agree that the McCanns may well have slipped their kids some Calpol or something to 'help' them sleep. I do not however feel that they killed their daughter, whether accidentally or deliberately.

It's a ghastly case and of course, that poor child is the one who has suffered because her parents decided to go out and have supper while leaving their children alone.

 

[Tabs1]

RE the bolded section,
we have been through this before, the Police Officer in charge, stated clearly that it was Human error in the Tia Sharp case, whether that means the Dogs did alert or not, we don't know, but its a bit of a stretch to say the Dogs got it wrong, somebody did but we dont know in what circumstances.

I agree, I find it almost impossible to believe that the parents could have killed their child and then carried on without coming unstuck in every sense of the word.
I do believe though that they know a hell of a lot more about what happened than they admit to though, hopefully one day we will find out what.

Really? I don't think it's a 'stretch' at all...

The dogs went into that home on several occasions. Now, maybe they did not get taken into the loft, I agree that's a possibility. But if they did, then presumably they did not alert or the body would have been found.

Even if the body was elsewhere on the premises and then moved to the loft, it couldn't have been very far away as the eyes of the media were scrutinising the family from the get go. So the body must have been nearby, yet several searches and the presence of the dogs and still nobody discovered the body??

Yep, I'd say somebody got it wrong all right.

 

[Skigh]

That's usually the stumbling block.

People just can't believe that the McCanns were capable.

Otherwise loving parents hurt and kill their children every day in our sad world. We know this. Once you suspend your emotion and look at cold hard fact, there is only one possible answer.

Please take some time to look at the footage of April Jones mother, the little girl in Wales who is currently missing, then compare it to the footage of Kate McCanns wooden performance asking for her daughter back. The McCanns actually aren't very good actors at all. She shows no grief.

They have relied on the good will of people like you, who simply cannot believe they can be involved.

The cadaver dogs have copped a fair bit of abuse in this case, but the fact is, they are eerily accurate.

Knowing this, how did the McCanns react when Eddie found cadaverine?

Did they go into a new wave of grief at the news their daughter was likely dead, and perhaps hold a private service?

No, they did not. They responded to the discovery of cadaverine by saying "the dogs are unreliable" and proceeding to thoroughly discredit them and the investigators using them.

Their reaction to the news their daughter was likely dead was to increase the PR. They did not grieve. This is the reaction of people who already knew, not freshly bereaved parents whose worst nightmare has come true.

:banghead:

Of course, my opinion only.

Unti the recent revelations many people would not believe the allegations against Jimmy Savile.


In my opinion the McCanns have had support from the highest level and there has been a huge cover up in the disappearance of Madeleine.

The dogs did find evidence just as they did in the Jersey care home.

 

[fabgod]

Really? I don't think it's a 'stretch' at all...

The dogs went into that home on several occasions. Now, maybe they did not get taken into the loft, I agree that's a possibility. But if they did, then presumably they did not alert or the body would have been found.

Even if the body was elsewhere on the premises and then moved to the loft, it couldn't have been very far away as the eyes of the media were scrutinising the family from the get go. So the body must have been nearby, yet several searches and the presence of the dogs and still nobody discovered the body??

Yep, I'd say somebody got it wrong all right.

Really? lol!
So according to you the dogs were involved in 4 searches?
What type of Dogs were they? Cadaver? Rescue? Tracker? Blood?
Do you have any links to the 4 searches or is it merely your opinion?

Looking forward to seeing your MSM links to the 4 searches and the information contained within them

 

[SapphireSteel]

So by suggesting the dogs may have missed the body, that is 'bashing' them?

I was making a simple statement of fact. Dogs searched the home. They missed the body. That is fact.

I would certainly never 'bash' either cadaver dogs nor any type of dogs. I'm crazy about dogs and there is one asleep on my foot right now

It's o/t...no offense.

There is a dedicated cadaver dog thread.

This thread takes the premise that Madeleine actually died that night so cadaver dogs/accuracy thereof are really not part of the topic, which is why they have a thread all of their own.

The "cadaver" dogs weren't brought in until much later anyway.

 

[Tabs1]

Really? lol!
So according to you the dogs were involved in 4 searches?
What type of Dogs were they? Cadaver? Rescue? Tracker? Blood?
Do you have any links to the 4 searches or is it merely your opinion?

Looking forward to seeing your MSM links to the 4 searches and the information contained within them

It's not the best newspaper on the planet but I presume the Daily Mail constitutes MSM....?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ers-dogs-8-days-body-missing-12-year-old.html

It mentions four searches of the property and also that specialist sniffer dogs were part of at least one search. I will find other links that I saw at the time of this horrible crime, where more searches with dogs were described.

BBC states there were four searches of the property. Two searches included dogs.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-19223085


To reiterate: I am not bashing the cadaver dogs nor any other dogs that were used in any of the searches. In fairness, it looks like cadaver dogs were present in the property during the last (fourth) search which was when Tia's body was finally located.

 

[Tabs1]

It's o/t...no offense.

There is a dedicated cadaver dog thread.

This thread takes the premise that Madeleine actually died that night so cadaver dogs/accuracy thereof are really not part of the topic, which is why they have a thread all of their own.

The "cadaver" dogs weren't brought in until much later anyway.

Thank you for clarifying this for me.

 

[Dymphna]

Just because Kate McCann was 'wooden' this does not automatically mean guilt. Some people shut down when they are under extreme stress. I'm not saying this was the case with Kate McCann, just that it is a possibility.

Respectfully snipped by me...

IMO, Kate wasn't just "wooden". She refused to answer 48 of the 49 questions asked of her by the Portugese investigators. WHY?? What mother desperate to find her missing child would refuse to answer these questions?

:banghead:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...uestions-Kate-McCann-wouldnt-answer--did.html

 

[Dymphna]

:what: I hadn't heard that about David Payne. (Thanks for reminding me of his name!)

Please search for the Drs. Gaspars' statements...very enlightening.

IMO

 

[SapphireSteel]

Is it just a coincidence that David Payne is the last one to claim to see Madeleine alive?

We know someone lied about that sighting too.

There is a time frame question as to how long the visit actually was, 30 seconds or 30 minutes IIRC.

:waitasec:

I find it odd that Gerry asked DP to "check" on Kate and the children in the first place.

I don't know about you but I could handle bathing my own 3 kids very well without the help or monitoring of a friend of my husbands. :dunno:

<modsnip>.

 

[Dymphna]

Is it just a coincidence that David Payne is the last one to claim to see Madeleine alive?

We know someone lied about that sighting too.

There is a time frame question as to how long the visit actually was, 30 seconds or 30 minutes IIRC.

:waitasec:

I find it odd that Gerry asked DP to "check" on Kate and the children in the first place.

I don't know about you but I could handle bathing my own 3 kids very well without the help or monitoring of a friend of my husbands. :dunno:

<modsnip>.

^THIS^

The Gaspar statements.
Yvonne Martin.

IMO

 

[Chewy]

If you or I as regular parents had doped our kids with benadryl or nyquil (and I think this happens more than people want to admit) and our child was kidnapped while knocked out, we could lament, "Oh she was sick and having a hard time falling asleep so I gave her a little to help her sleep" We'd get slammed for it and maybe a misdemeanor and visit from protective services and perhaps even a paroled sentence.

However these people were doctors. They stood to loose everything if they admitted to doing this. They faced losing their license, their jobs, their reputations and their children if as doctors they admitted to violating their code of ethics.

This is why IMO they couldn't be honest about what happened. So they didn't answer all the questions. They avoided. You can tell there is more that they are not sharing.

And at the end IMO this is what comes off as insincere. This is why they seem like they are lying. They can never tell the truth about it.

But the evidence points to it. KM immediately knew that her daughter had been abducted. She didn't panic and think she'd gotten out of the room or even look to see if she was hiding in the bathroom or under the bed. She didn't panic and dash to the swimming pool. This says to me that she instantly knew that there was no way she had left the room. Because she couldn't. She was doped.

It also explains why they don't really seem to feel guilty about leaving them alone in the room. Why they blow it off as not putting their children in harms way. If a child is doped and sleeping in a deep sleep, the only reason they would go back to check on her is to make sure she wasn't having any sort of medical distress and that the room hadn't had a fire or some freak dangerous thing.

It's sad. But IMO this is the most logical explanation. I don't think they killed her. But ultimately I think plastering her picture around the world, especially when she has that unusual mark in her eye, sealed her fate. It's such a distinctive feature I don't think a kidnapper would risk dealing with her.

 

[fabgod]

If you or I as regular parents had doped our kids with benadryl or nyquil (and I think this happens more than people want to admit) and our child was kidnapped while knocked out, we could lament, "Oh she was sick and having a hard time falling asleep so I gave her a little to help her sleep" We'd get slammed for it and maybe a misdemeanor and visit from protective services and perhaps even a paroled sentence.

However these people were doctors. They stood to loose everything if they admitted to doing this. They faced losing their license, their jobs, their reputations and their children if as doctors they admitted to violating their code of ethics.

This is why IMO they couldn't be honest about what happened. So they didn't answer all the questions. They avoided. You can tell there is more that they are not sharing.

And at the end IMO this is what comes off as insincere. This is why they seem like they are lying. They can never tell the truth about it.

But the evidence points to it. KM immediately knew that her daughter had been abducted. She didn't panic and think she'd gotten out of the room or even look to see if she was hiding in the bathroom or under the bed. She didn't panic and dash to the swimming pool. This says to me that she instantly knew that there was no way she had left the room. Because she couldn't. She was doped.

It also explains why they don't really seem to feel guilty about leaving them alone in the room. Why they blow it off as not putting their children in harms way. If a child is doped and sleeping in a deep sleep, the only reason they would go back to check on her is to make sure she wasn't having any sort of medical distress and that the room hadn't had a fire or some freak dangerous thing.

It's sad. But IMO this is the most logical explanation. I don't think they killed her. But ultimately I think plastering her picture around the world, especially when she has that unusual mark in her eye, sealed her fate. It's such a distinctive feature I don't think a kidnapper would risk dealing with her.

Good points but, why the total lack of any evidence of an abductor and how does that explain the Cadaver dogs?

 

[Chewy]

The dogs don't bother me because there are flaws to using dogs.


Also (and this speaks to the JBR case as well) I think people over estimate what it takes to have a person who is intent on not being noticed get into a house or a room. It is much easier than people think. For every burglary out there where an unprofessional comes in and tears the place apart there's another where someone "cases the joint" and gets in and out without any detection.

What evidence of an abductor would be needed to walk into a room with an opened door and pick up a child from the bed who is knocked out and walk out the door. Easy. Bring a stroller or linen cart with you, even easier.

 

[fabgod]

The dogs don't bother me because there are flaws to using dogs.


Also (and this speaks to the JBR case as well) I think people over estimate what it takes to have a person who is intent on not being noticed get into a house or a room. It is much easier than people think. For every burglary out there where an unprofessional comes in and tears the place apart there's another where someone "cases the joint" and gets in and out without any detection.

What evidence of an abductor would be needed to walk into a room with an opened door and pick up a child from the bed who is knocked out and walk out the door. Easy. Bring a stroller or linen cart with you, even easier.

So the open door is the patio door, its up stairs so that idea is a non starter.
Gerry McCann apparently checked the children and saw Madeleine, but less than 5 minutes later, Madeleine is seen being carried by the abductor, how does the abductor get in to the apartment, with the linen cart/stroller hide it so GM doesnt see it while he is doing his check and toilet visit and then leave it where?

Unless the abductor was already in the apartment when GM was doing his check, if the Jane Tanner sighting is to be believed, the abductor had to get in through the front door, with GM standing outside the apartment talking to a friend and then leave the same way, but remembering to shut the front door, even though he was carrying a child across both his arms, leave no trace whatsoever, then boldly walk across a public road in front of one the parents friends (and indeed GM himself).

Then the dogs alert to 13 locations, every one involving the McCanns, hardly a monor flaw in my opinion.

 

[Clutchbag]

The dogs don't bother me because there are flaws to using dogs.


Also (and this speaks to the JBR case as well) I think people over estimate what it takes to have a person who is intent on not being noticed get into a house or a room. It is much easier than people think. For every burglary out there where an unprofessional comes in and tears the place apart there's another where someone "cases the joint" and gets in and out without any detection.

What evidence of an abductor would be needed to walk into a room with an opened door and pick up a child from the bed who is knocked out and walk out the door. Easy. Bring a stroller or linen cart with you, even easier.

One of the red flags for me in this story is that the mother on discovering her child missing and *knowing* she had been abducted, left her two remaining babies and ran to the restaraunt instead of screaming out for help from neighbours and passers by, even jane tanner was in her flat two doors away

how was she so sure the abductors werent still lurking and come back for the other two once she had left

 

[Clutchbag]

Is it just a coincidence that David Payne is the last one to claim to see Madeleine alive?

We know someone lied about that sighting too.

There is a time frame question as to how long the visit actually was, 30 seconds or 30 minutes IIRC.

:waitasec:

I find it odd that Gerry asked DP to "check" on Kate and the children in the first place.

I don't know about you but I could handle bathing my own 3 kids very well without the help or monitoring of a friend of my husbands. :dunno:

<modsnip>.

I think the 30 minutes was the time gerry said payne was absent not the duration of the visit, he did go to his own flat as well

There is a discrepancy between kate mccanns and paynes statements, the former says he didnt come in and was at the door for 30 seconds, the latter said he went inside to the living room and spent 3-5 minutes chatting and observing the kids

 

[SapphireSteel]

I think the 30 minutes was the time gerry said payne was absent not the duration of the visit, he did go to his own flat as well

There is a discrepancy between kate mccanns and paynes statements, the former says he didnt come in and was at the door for 30 seconds, the latter said he went inside to the living room and spent 3-5 minutes chatting and observing the kids

Thanks.

This is just another example of the lies told by Team McCann. We will never have clarity on these discrepancies while these people refuse to be questioned again...but I guess that's the point of lying.

:banghead: