...I 'advize' you to be rested?

[Holdontoyourhat]

..why would she *not do that if she wanted to save herself? where are you going w. this anyway...

Rephrasing my original question:

Why was the quality of PR's writing substantially different, if she wrote both the RN and the investigators assignment text with her left hand?

 

[rashomon]

PR (according to RDI): Watch, I'll fix these pesky investigators and misspell a word I usually spell correctly. AND I'll spell correctly a word I misspelled in the RN. That'll throw LE off for sure....

LE: What misspelled words?

RDI: Oh, PR's a journalism major and would never misspell business or advise. The only way to account for this (difference between the RN and PR's writings) is that she deliberately misspelled them.

IDI: PR demonstrated to investigators that she couldn't spell 'advise' while the RN author could. The Rn author couldn't spell 'business' while PR obviously can. The most likely way to account for this (difference between the RN and PR's writings) is PR and the RN author are two different people.

C'mon, Holdon - Patsy deliberately misspelled advise (and wrote 'business' correctly this time) because she wanted to suggest to LE that she and the RN author were not the same person.

And of course she would deliberately mess up her left-hand writing sample - any guilty offender with half a brain would have done the same, don't you think so?

 

[Paradox]

C'mon, Holdon - Patsy deliberately misspelled advise (and wrote 'business' correctly this time) because she wanted to suggest to LE that she and the RN author were not the same person.

And of course she would deliberately mess up her left-hand writing sample - any guilty offender with half a brain would have done the same, don't you think so?

Boo! Guess who.

 

[JMO8778]

Rephrasing my original question:

Why was the quality of PR's writing substantially different, if she wrote both the RN and the investigators assignment text with her left hand?

Ames and I both answered that,no need to rephrase.

Hold,did Patsy ever misspell Patsy as Patzy,or better yet,Patzy Ramzey? I'm quite sure she knew the difference between where an s and a z should go.

You seem to be an analytical thinker (which is why I suspect you're male),or at least using analytical terms to think this case through,and it isn't quite like that ..Patsy and JR purposely set it up that way,IMO.
That's not meant to be a sterotype or sexist remark;truth is I've never really noticed a female think so analytically.And you're much too smart to be PP,IMO.Which is why I don't think even you believe what you're saying.
(no stone throwing pls,women are certainly smart,we just tend to think the whole thing through,rather than just using analytical terms and thinking processes,like Hold appears to be doing).But I'm not saying all males are like that;certainly not.Hold just appears to be using that factor to the max.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Ames and I both answered that,no need to rephrase.

Hold,did Patsy ever misspell Patsy as Patzy,or better yet,Patzy Ramzey? I'm quite sure she knew the difference between where an s and a z should go.

You seem to be an analytical thinker (which is why I suspect you're male),or at least using analytical terms to think this case through,and it isn't quite like that ..Patsy and JR purposely set it up that way,IMO.
That's not meant to be a sterotype or sexist remark;truth is I've never really noticed a female think so analytically.And you're much too smart to be PP,IMO.Which is why I don't think even you believe what you're saying.
(no stone throwing pls,women are certainly smart,we just tend to think the whole thing through,rather than just using analytical terms and thinking processes,like Hold appears to be doing).But I'm not saying all males are like that;certainly not.Hold just appears to be using that factor to the max.

Then you'll love this:

C'mon, Holdon - Patsy deliberately misspelled advise (and wrote 'business' correctly this time) because she wanted to suggest to LE that she and the RN author were not the same person.

And of course she would deliberately mess up her left-hand writing sample - any guilty offender with half a brain would have done the same, don't you think so?

Claim: PR could not have written the RN with her left hand.
Supporting Evidence: PR demonstrated for investigators that she didn't have the necessary skill to have written the RN with her left hand. Her opposite hand writing sample was a complete mess, compared to the RN. This would have been the expected result if she was not the opposite-hand author of the RN.

Claim: PR could not have written the RN.
Supporting Evidence: PR demonstrated for investigators that she was unable to correctly spell 'advise', a word that was correctly spelled in the RN. PR further demonstrated that she was unable to incorrectly spell 'business', a word that was misspelled in the RN.

Claim: PR deliberately messed up her left hand writing sample she gave to investigators.
Supporting Evidence: None

Claim: PR deliberately misspelled 'advise'.
Supporting Evidence: None

If we really took the time to 'think things through', we'd realize that nobody who lives in the same house is going to leave 2 1/2 pages of handwriting to accompany a child murder. :doh:

Somebody who lives out of the country might do that.

 

[rashomon]

[Holdontoyourhat]:
Claim: PR could not have written the RN with her left hand.
Supporting Evidence: PR demonstrated for investigators that she didn't have the necessary skill to have written the RN with her left hand. Her opposite hand writing sample was a complete mess, compared to the RN. This would have been the expected result if she was not the opposite-hand author of the RN.

Claim: PR could not have written the RN.
Supporting Evidence: PR demonstrated for investigators that she was unable to correctly spell 'advise', a word that was correctly spelled in the RN. PR further demonstrated that she was unable to incorrectly spell 'business', a word that was misspelled in the RN.

It never ceases to amaze me how you and several other IDIs are willing to accept everything the Ramseys did and said at face value without asking themselves what motive could have been behind their actions.

Claim: PR deliberately messed up her left hand writing sample she gave to investigators.

Claim: PR deliberately misspelled 'advise'.

These two claims are logical conclusions if you put two and two together. Never forget to use your Occam's razor - keep it simple!

If we really took the time to 'think things through', we'd realize that nobody who lives in the same house is going to leave 2 1/2 pages of handwriting to accompany a child murder. :doh:

Yes, let's think it through, Holdon. That's why we're posting here, aren't we?
Now put yourself in the Ramseys' shoes - suppose they initially wanted to dump the body outside the house but then didn't dare to do it for fear of being seen.
What to do now? A child's dead body found in the parents' home without any element to suggest ousider involvement would make the handcuffs close around their wrists at once. They KNOW this.

The ransom note is their attempt to create this outsider element, and I believe Patsy felt that the more stuff she put into that note, the more 'convincing' it would sound. She may even have tried to convince herself in a psychological sense - remember that the FBI CASKU experts said that the ransom note was also a cathartic act allowing the offender to 'undo' the crime in his/her own mind.

When you look at things from this angle, the ransom note does make sense from the Ramseys' point of view. They had no choice but to write it.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

It never ceases to amaze me how you and several other IDIs are willing to accept everything the Ramseys did and said at face value without asking themselves what motive could have been behind their actions.

These two claims are logical conclusions if you put two and two together. Never forget to use your Occam's razor - keep it simple!

Yes, let's think it through, Holdon. That's why we're posting here, aren't we?
Now put yourself in the Ramseys' shoes - suppose they initially wanted to dump the body outside the house but then didn't dare to do it for fear of being seen.
What to do now? A child's dead body found in the parents' home without any element to suggest ousider involvement would make the handcuffs close around their wrists at once. They KNOW this.

The ransom note is their attempt to create this outsider element, and I believe Patsy felt that the more stuff she put into that note, the more 'convincing' it would sound. She may even have tried to convince herself in a psychological sense - remember that the FBI CASKU experts said that the ransom note was also a cathartic act allowing the offender to 'undo' the crime in his/her own mind.

When you look at things from this angle, the ransom note does make sense from the Ramseys' point of view. They had no choice but to write it.

I don't doubt the offender used the Rn as a cathartic act, but not in the way that is assumed. IMO it was to terrorize the parents, causing them to think for hours and hours that there was some hope of recovering JBR. Only to have them find out later there was never any hope at any time. Probably the killer is a sadist.

See, RDI has one way of looking at things, while IDI has another way that at least does work with all the evidence taken at face value. Sometimes an orange is just an orange.

The idea that the R's had no choice but to handwrite '2 1/2' pages of ransom note isn't supported by any evidence, and is contrary to reason. Of course they had a choice to not handwrite the longest ransom note in history, when they lived in the same house!

And swiftly countering 'advize' as deliberate misspelling, without any evidence to back it up, is yet another idea produced out of thin air to prevent RDI from crumbling.

 

[Ames]

I meant the shape of the periods, the dot, would probably be identical between PR's exemplars and the RN author.

From a laymans POV, the smaller and simpler the feature is, like dots or small circles or short lines, the harder it would be to distinguish one author from another. I'd suggest that you consider looking for dissimilarities between the larger features or characters produced by both PR and the RN author, just to keep some measure of balance in your perspective. I'm confident without looking that the dissimilarities of their larger features would be significant.

I wonder if Patsy wrote the sample with the same pen that was used to write the RN? If they were different and one of the pens had a flatter tip...that would explain the difference in the shape.

 

[Paradox]

I wonder if Patsy wrote the sample with the same pen that was used to write the RN? If they were different and one of the pens had a flatter tip...that would explain the difference in the shape.

Wow! Great thinking!

 

[Ames]

Correct. In PR's mind, there was 'advize'. In the RN author's mind, there was 'advise'.

Two different minds, doncha think?

Holdon, she was trying to save her butt...so trying to alter the writing by misspelling a word...was IN HER MIND. IMO..she knew which word she misspelled in the RN..because she did THAT on purpose too. SOOOO...of course she is not going to misspell that SAME word, she would have been arrested on the spot. What are the chances that Patsy and the RN author would misspell the SAME word...business. SO, she misspells another word..and gets that one correct. DUHHH..its not rocket science my dear.

 

[Ames]

Asking again, the same question for RDI:

Why does the handwriting in PR's left-handed RN text sample look way sloppier than the handwriting in the RN?

Holdon...okay Patsy saw the RN, even if she didn't write it...(which she DID, but anyway)....she saw how it was written, and the misspelled word, she wants to save her butt from prison. Now tell me...what would YOU do in this case...if you had of been the author of the RN....you would change the way the sample RN looked...you do not want the real RN and the sample RN to look the same....or do you? Some things came to natural for her to remember to change though. For example her letter q....just to name ONE.

 

[Ames]

yes,the exact pen was identified and matched to a library of ink in the FBI..they have tons of them on file.
Surely it was dusted,but the results not released,that I know of.But surely they would have been if unidentified prints were on it..the R attorneys would have had a field day w/ that one.

Was that the same pen that she used for the sample, too? Or do you know?

 

[Paradox]

Holdon, she was trying to save her butt...so trying to alter the writing by misspelling a word...was IN HER MIND. IMO..she knew which word she misspelled in the RN..because she did THAT on purpose too. SOOOO...of course she is not going to misspell that SAME word, she would have been arrested on the spot. What are the chances that Patsy and the RN author would misspell the SAME word...business. SO, she misspells another word..and gets that one correct. DUHHH..its not rocket science my dear.

Then you must know rocket science to know the difference between rocket science and the funny papers.

 

[Ames]

Soooo, do you think she messed up the left-hand writing assignment given to her by investigators on purpose?

It is well known that Patsy was ambidextrous (if I misspelled that, it's not on purpose....unlike Patsy). People like that can write just as well with their left hand as they can with their right, My sister has that quality...and....whether she writes left or right handed...it looks the same. Soooooo, Patsy's left handed sample would not have been sloppy, if she had of not meant for it to be.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

It is well known that Patsy was ambidextrous (if I misspelled that, it's not on purpose....unlike Patsy). People like that can write just as well with their left hand as they can with their right, My sister has that quality...and....whether she writes left or right handed...it looks the same. Soooooo, Patsy's left handed sample would not have been sloppy, if she had of not meant for it to be.

Based on her demonstration of opposite-hand writing of the RN text for investigators, I'd say your information that she is ambidextrous is false. At least as far as writing is concerned. That demonstration was a mess.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Holdon...okay Patsy saw the RN, even if she didn't write it...(which she DID, but anyway)....she saw how it was written, and the misspelled word, she wants to save her butt from prison. Now tell me...what would YOU do in this case...if you had of been the author of the RN....you would change the way the sample RN looked...you do not want the real RN and the sample RN to look the same....or do you? Some things came to natural for her to remember to change though. For example her letter q....just to name ONE.

Fact is, PR performed for investigators as would be expected for someone who did not author the RN. She wrote differently, and spelled some words differently than the RN author. Rationalizing this negative result into something that fits RDI is easy. All it takes is imagination (you have to make stuff up, e.g. she deliberately messed up her writing and spelling).

Too bad for RDI that PR didn't misspell the same as the RN author, including 'bussiness', etc. Now that would give RDI some actual evidence for a change! Without any requirement for rationalizing a negative result.

 

[DeeDee249]

Was that the same pen that she used for the sample, too? Or do you know?

No. It couldn't have been. The pen and pad were taken into evidence, and PR gave her sample at a later time in front of LE.

As far as anything ELSE PR did in front of LE, her handwriting, spelling, and behavior were all altered for the purpose of distancing herself from this crime and her involvement in it.

 

[Ames]

Boo! Guess who.

The Easter Bunny? Santa Claus? The Boogey Man? Wait, wait...I know...the tooth fairy?

 

[Ames]

Wow! Great thinking!

I just read a post by DEEDEE that stated that the pens were NOT the same. The original RN pen was taken into evidence. So, for Holdon...that would explain the difference in the shape of the periods at the end of the sentences, in the RN and the sample RN.

 

[DeeDee249]

I just read a post by DEEDEE that stated that the pens were NOT the same. The original RN pen was taken into evidence. So, for Holdon...that would explain the difference in the shape of the periods at the end of the sentences, in the RN and the sample RN.

Neener, neener, Holdon.