IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #12

[Marnie]

Thank you. I was also wondering about what the normal water levels were like. I was comparing those photos to the aerial views and it didn't look the same. I guess that means that the girls would have had to hug the fence to walk in that area with normal water conditions ... which brings me back to wondering if they really went through the gate. At the same time, why would their bikes be parked at the gate if they didn't go through it? I suppose they would have taken the risk of going through the gate and hugging the fence if someone was there with some sort of water craft.

A paddle boat has been mentioned and many have assumed that means a pedal boat, but where I'm from, paddlers are kayakers and canoeists ... so a paddle boat is anything that uses a paddle.

You're welcome!

I don't know the normal water levels, but I have to ask: Why do you think the girls hugged the fence to move easterly towards Maiden Lane when LE stated that the girls scent was picked up on the jetty and then up the bike trail and into the woods just beyond the end of the fence (by Maiden Lane)?

I believe the girls went through the gate and onto the jetty. They may have been offered a ride on a paddle boat but it was banked over by the Maiden Lane section of the lake and not at the jetty where they thought it would be. Someone beckoned them from that bank and since they couldn't navigate their way there along the inside of the fence of the lake, ditched their bikes and purse in a hurry to run up the bike path and into the woods. I believed they were grabbed there and placed in a vehicle and off they went.

This is a pic of a paddleboat. I have seen several in images surrounding the lake. You pedal it like a bike. Two people in the front and two can ride sitting on the back. Just an FYI.

 

[cindersoot]

Otto, I thought that also, pedal vs. paddle. LE might be thinking paddle boat (oars).

 

[ROM828]

The description of Pedal vs. Paddle might be a geographic difference in language terms. I call a boat with pedals a "paddle" boat because everyone else here in this region knows it as this.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

you are correct. The term for this boat that has bicycle-like pedals is commonly referred to as a paddleboat. I have always assumed that LE has known what they are referring to.....which is what the pic ^^^^^shows

 

[GrainneDhu]

A pedal boat doesn't use a paddle, so why would police mention a paddle boat if they meant a pedal boat. Surely they know the difference. It's possible that police think a boat that needs a paddle was in the area, but they're uncertain whether the boat is a canoe or a kayak. Look up paddlers (even in connection with the olympics) and you arrive at canoes and kayaks.

"This isn't heaven, it's Iowa."
--Ray Kinsella, Field of Dreams based on the novel Shoeless Joe by W.P.Kinsella

When the Olympics are held in Iowa, we will no doubt become more cognizant of these finer points of speech.

Until then, this lifelong Iowan has never heard of a canoe, kayak or rowboat referred to as a paddle boat. For someone looking for one, they are canoes, kayaks or rowboats.

In Iowa, the means of propulsion of those paddle boats is a circular paddle (like the big riverboats only tiny) propelled by peddles operated by the occupant(s) of the boat.

The first easy page from a google on "iowa paddle boats for rent" came up with:

There are seven boat ramps on the lake and one on Coralville Lake. Pontoons, motorboats, canoes and paddle boats are available for rent near the beach.

http://www.stateparks.com/lake_macbride.html

Notice how canoes get their own mention separately from paddle boats.

I realise that people in other regions have their own terminology and I am sure their terminology fits their lives and experiences. To this lifelong Iowa hick from the boonies, a paddle boat is one of those foot pedalled thingies.

 

[katydid23]

Where would they lure them to if there was no more scent of them found there? Don't mean to sound snarky. Just want LE to find these girls. It has been to long.

He could have taken them to a vehicle hidden nearby in the brush. Or maybe a rowboat or maybe the girls were picked up by accomplices and carried, which would make it harder for the dogs to track.

 

[hollyblue]

heres what ive been rolling around in my head:

mm said that lyric was to text her when she got off work to tell mm where she was.

why would she need to do that if lyric was going to leave at 1:30 with gramma?

lyric didnt take the/her phone.

so, either lyric was going to possibly meet up with her friends somewhere for some reason and then would text mm once she (lyric) had found her friends. she could have borrowed a friends phone if that was the case.... and assuming that ec would either stay with lyric or ride home alone???

or lyric already knew that she had to be back to leave with gramma, and if that was always the plan then why the need to text mcm to tell her where she was?

if the bikes were staged, and the girls were never at the lake, i feel that the perp would have to know them well enough to think that the staging area would be realistic otherwise why wouldnt they put the bikes and purse where they may never be found?

or, its was just a good opportunity to snatch two girls and just leave everything where it fell... ( this seems more likely imo )

the only thing still really bugging me is lyric needing to text mcm to tell her where she was going to be, as though it could have been more than one expected place...kwim?

Good point. The only thing I can think of would be MCM worked just up the road from EC's house and didn't know if Lyric would be going back to Waterloo with Gma or staying to play with EC until MCM got off of work to take her back home with her. There was that much of time difference between 1:30 with Gma and 2:00 with mom. ?? BUT, Gma did say she had told Lyric to be back by 1:30 because they had to return to Waterloo.

 

[GrainneDhu]

heres what ive been rolling around in my head:

mm said that lyric was to text her when she got off work to tell mm where she was.

why would she need to do that if lyric was going to leave at 1:30 with gramma?

lyric didnt take the/her phone.

so, either lyric was going to possibly meet up with her friends somewhere for some reason and then would text mm once she (lyric) had found her friends. she could have borrowed a friends phone if that was the case.... and assuming that ec would either stay with lyric or ride home alone???

or lyric already knew that she had to be back to leave with gramma, and if that was always the plan then why the need to text mcm to tell her where she was?

if the bikes were staged, and the girls were never at the lake, i feel that the perp would have to know them well enough to think that the staging area would be realistic otherwise why wouldnt they put the bikes and purse where they may never be found?

or, its was just a good opportunity to snatch two girls and just leave everything where it fell... ( this seems more likely imo )

the only thing still really bugging me is lyric needing to text mcm to tell her where she was going to be, as though it could have been more than one expected place...kwim?

I thought it meant that Lyric would have been allowed to decide if she wanted to stay at the Collins house with Elizabeth and her siblings, supervised by Heath Collins.

If it was a nice day (and it was), staying with her cousins would seem like more fun than going out with Grandma and Aunt TB on some adult business.

 

[otto]

You're welcome!

I don't know the normal water levels, but I have to ask: Why do you think the girls hugged the fence to move easterly towards Maiden Lane when LE stated that the girls scent was picked up on the jetty and then up the bike trail and into the woods just beyond the end of the fence (by Maiden Lane)?

I believe the girls went through the gate and onto the jetty. They may have been offered a ride on a paddle boat but it was banked over by the Maiden Lane section of the lake and not at the jetty where they thought it would be. Someone beckoned them from that bank and since they couldn't navigate their way there along the inside of the fence of the lake, ditched their bikes and purse in a hurry to run up the bike path and into the woods. I believed they were grabbed there and placed in a vehicle and off they went.

This is a pic of a paddleboat. I have seen several in images surrounding the lake. You pedal it like a bike. Two people in the front and two can ride sitting on the back. Just an FYI.

Thanks for the dog tracking info. All I had heard about the dogs was that they tracked to the water and that was it. Do you recall where you read that the dogs tracked to the water, at the drainage pipe and to the Maiden Lane area?

Here are some photos from Huffington Post of the gate and water (just in case this goes on for a long time and the photos disappear) ... keeping in mind that they were taken two days after draining of the lake began.

 

[Mimiof8]

Who is Tim Miller?

Tim Miller is the owner of Texas EquuSearch

http://texasequusearch.org/

 

[otto]

Otto, I thought that also, pedal vs. paddle. LE might be thinking paddle boat (oars).

There's been debate on this site regarding what police mean when they say "paddle boat". When police say that someone that runs the trail daily saw the bikes and provided an accurate time, some think that a runner means a cycist. When police say that they are looking for a paddle boat, some think that means a pedal boat. Are police and the FBI usually vague, or do they actually mean a runner and a paddle boat? I don't know ... I'm tempted to take what they say as being accurate ... that a runner means a runner, not a cyclist, and a paddle boat means something that has a paddle, not a pedal ... but perhaps the FBI mix up their words or are unable to find the correct words. I sure hope not, but anything is possible.

 

[cindersoot]

Thanks for the dog tracking info. All I had heard about the dogs was that they tracked to the water and that was it. Do you recall where you read that the dogs tracked to the water, at the drainage pipe and to the Maiden Lane area?

Here are some photos from Huffington Post of the gate and water (just in case this goes on for a long time and the photos disappear) ... keeping in mind that they were taken two days after draining of the lake began.

Notice how they got that large black SUV on the path. Hmm.....

 

[MotherOcean]

I've spent atleast six and up to eight hours a day keeping up with Lyric & Elizabeth's case. I can't believe it's been three weeks and we are still waiting for them to be found. I've gotten mentally and emotionally invested in this case. I just can't stand to think what those girls are going through right now. I guess I've gotten to the point where I can hardly bear to go through the same details, over and over. I've gotten to the point that it barely matters to me how this happened or even why it happened. All I can think about is what their lives are like today. What is happening to them today?

I'm not posting as much as I did before but I'm still lurking. Still thinking. Still hoping. Still praying. I have some angles I'd like to discuss but I can't do so because 1) it may violate the TOS (not blaming or bashing the family at all, but examining some things about their lives - influences that may be connected to the disappearances) and 2) it's kinda off the wall. :laugh:

I've never followed the case of a missing child that ended with the child coming home. What happens now? WHERE are the girls? What is today like for them? I'm not losing hope for a happy ending. Please God let this have a happy ending. lease:

(Yes, I know my tone is "heavy". That's just where I am now.)

 

[MotherOcean]

Tim Miller is the owner of Texas EquuSearch

http://texasequusearch.org/

I hope they bring TE in soon.

 

[otto]

"This isn't heaven, it's Iowa."
--Ray Kinsella, Field of Dreams based on the novel Shoeless Joe by W.P.Kinsella

When the Olympics are held in Iowa, we will no doubt become more cognizant of these finer points of speech.

Until then, this lifelong Iowan has never heard of a canoe, kayak or rowboat referred to as a paddle boat. For someone looking for one, they are canoes, kayaks or rowboats.

In Iowa, the means of propulsion of those paddle boats is a circular paddle (like the big riverboats only tiny) propelled by peddles operated by the occupant(s) of the boat.

The first easy page from a google on "iowa paddle boats for rent" came up with:



http://www.stateparks.com/lake_macbride.html

Notice how canoes get their own mention separately from paddle boats.

I realise that people in other regions have their own terminology and I am sure their terminology fits their lives and experiences. To this lifelong Iowa hick from the boonies, a paddle boat is one of those foot pedalled thingies.

I recall using a pedal boat as a child ... it seemed to go very slow, be a lot of work and it sat very high in the water - meaning there was nothing subtle or elegant about it. It seems like a clumsy water craft, like a very high profile water craft to use when abducting two girls.

 

[cindersoot]

Otto, where did you get those great pictures of the investigation?

 

[nervous_nellie]

Who is Tim Miller?

sorry, had to run out for a minute...

Tim Miller / Eqquasearch

http://texasequusearch.org/2009/01/statistics/

 

[otto]

Notice how they got that large black SUV on the path. Hmm.....

I'm sure a police vehicle could go down the 10 foot wide trail without too much of a problem, but if someone in a white van drove on the trail to that spot around noon on a Friday, I'm sure someone would have noticed.

 

[ShyViolet]

My son is a rower, and all the other boats are paddle boats ... that's how people involved with non-motor water sports and rowing refer to canoes and kayaks.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/olympics/longterm/cankayak/canhist.htm

We call them paddle boats because pedaling turns the paddle (think steamboat paddle) which propels the boat. You can google pedal or paddle boat and come up with the same results. I am a bit further north, but around here, we call them paddle boats. : )

 

[otto]

Otto, where did you get those great pictures of the investigation?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...-missing-cousins_n_1681325.html#slide=1238303

 

[cluciano63]

I've spent atleast six and up to eight hours a day keeping up with Lyric & Elizabeth's case. I can't believe it's been three weeks and we are still waiting for them to be found. I've gotten mentally and emotionally invested in this case. I just can't stand to think what those girls are going through right now. I guess I've gotten to the point where I can hardly bear to go through the same details, over and over. I've gotten to the point that it barely matters to me how this happened or even why it happened. All I can think about is what their lives are like today. What is happening to them today?

I'm not posting as much as I did before but I'm still lurking. Still thinking. Still hoping. Still praying. I have some angles I'd like to discuss but I can't do so because 1) it may violate the TOS (not blaming or bashing the family at all, but examining some things about their lives - influences that may be connected to the disappearances) and 2) it's kinda off the wall. :laugh:

I've never followed the case of a missing child that ended with the child coming home. What happens now? WHERE are the girls? What is today like for them? I'm not losing hope for a happy ending. Please God let this have a happy ending. lease:

(Yes, I know my tone is "heavy". That's just where I am now.)

I'm right there with you...the details hardly matter to me at this point. They are gone and no one seems to know where. And I have not seen any cases with happy endings in a very long time, if they have endings at all.