IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #12

[hollyblue]

How could police know whether it was a kayak or canoe ... and if they were going to be very specific, why would they say a paddle boat if they meant a pedal boat. There's a huge difference between the two.

If it was a canoe or kayak, then LE would have stated they were. Big difference in visulization. They said paddleboat. To me, a paddleboat just has peddles to push the paddles in the water to manuver the boat; but still a paddleboat. I do think it depends on where you live. A paddler, to me, is either the person doing the paddling or the object used in paddling. ie: oar Just like sculling, they use the oars to paddle, but they are called sculling boats. Confusing.

 

[otto]

We call them paddle boats because pedaling turns the paddle (think steamboat paddle) which propels the boat. You can google pedal or paddle boat and come up with the same results. I am a bit further north, but around here, we call them paddle boats. : )

Thanks ... I understand that it's probably a colloquial term ... but why would the FBI use a colloquial term? Maybe they would. We have pedal boats here, and lots of paddlers. Maybe, having more involvement with non-motor water sports makes me more inclined to use the terms of pedal and paddle differently than police and FBI. It sure would be helpful if there was another case update so someone could ask police whether the paddle boat is a pedal boat and whether the runner is a cyclist.

 

[nervous_nellie]

Thanks ... I understand that it's probably a colloquial term ... but why would the FBI use a colloquial term? Maybe they would. We have pedal boats here, and lots of paddlers. Maybe, having more involvement with non-motor water sports makes me more inclined to use the terms of pedal and paddle differently than police and FBI. It sure would be helpful if there was another case update so someone could ask police whether the paddle boat is a pedal boat and whether the runner is a cyclist.

i think the reason of using a colloquial term/phrase is because they are talking to and requesting info from the local population...jmo

 

[otto]

If it was a canoe or kayak, then LE would have stated they were. Big difference in visulization. They said paddleboat. To me, a paddleboat just has peddles to push the paddles in the water to manuver the boat; but still a paddleboat. I do think it depends on where you live. A paddler, to me, is either the person doing the paddling or the object used in paddling. ie: oar Just like sculling, they use the oars to paddle, but they are called sculling boats. Confusing.

There's sculling and sweeping in rowing, paddling in canoeing and kayaking. Either way, police should be careful with their language when asking the public for information.

 

[ROM828]

I was curious so I went searching....interesting what I found on the white van phenomena:

Minnesota: http://brainerddispatch.com/aggregator/sources/153
Illinois: http://wlponews.wordpress.com/2012/07/17/possible-attempted-kidnapping-in-peru/

Combine this with the reports in Iowa and it makes me wonder if there isn't a trafficking ring that is searching for kids all over the midwest IMO

 

[cindersoot]

I'm sure a police vehicle could go down the 10 foot wide trail without too much of a problem, but if someone in a white van drove on the trail to that spot around noon on a Friday, I'm sure someone would have noticed.

But...did you notice that about 10 ft into the path from the grassy area is very secluded. I really don't think a vehicle would of been noticed. Especially if there was a look out person. The trees and brush are pretty thick.

 

[Thinkzerz]

But...did you notice that about 10 ft into the path from the grassy area is very secluded. I really don't think a vehicle would of been noticed. Especially if there was a look out person. The trees and brush are pretty thick.

But then the girls scent would have lead there. JMO

 

[cindersoot]

But then the girls scent would have lead there. JMO

Not if they were grabbed.

 

[Thinkzerz]

Not if they were grabbed.

I doubt that Lyric was carried and then add Elizabeth's weight too.

 

[hollyblue]

First, I wish you had no personal knowledge of this. I pray you are doing ok. And yes, the power a child molester has over their victim(s) is as complex as it gets. To those never exposed to this horrendous lifestyle it would be difficult to comprehend the action or responses of victims.

I'm embarrassed to say I was oblivious to all this until my 30's. I never had any children. I thought a child molester was just a nasty old man that tried to put his hand up a girls dress, etc. I was astounded to learn that grown men would be actually sexually attacted to little girls and what pervs they were. Then I learned it was more about control.

My heart goes out to all who have experienced this and your right it's difficult to comprehend. The fright alone of some monster coming into your room to hurt you makes me shutter and fume at the same time. The gambit of emotions the victims go through must be a very long painful list. Many hugs to you again Kadydid....my heart aches for what you and many others have beared. (((((hugs))))

 

[Sunlight]

Thanks ... I understand that it's probably a colloquial term ... but why would the FBI use a colloquial term? Maybe they would. We have pedal boats here, and lots of paddlers. Maybe, having more involvement with non-motor water sports makes me more inclined to use the terms of pedal and paddle differently than police and FBI. It sure would be helpful if there was another case update so someone could ask police whether the paddle boat is a pedal boat and whether the runner is a cyclist.

My guess is a local said they saw a paddleboat, and LE is using that language to see if someone steps forward to back up what someone else said they saw. If the witness who saw something else in addition to the paddleboater at the same time, they can narrow the timeline perhaps.

 

[Marnie]

Thanks for the dog tracking info. All I had heard about the dogs was that they tracked to the water and that was it. Do you recall where you read that the dogs tracked to the water, at the drainage pipe and to the Maiden Lane area?

Here are some photos from Huffington Post of the gate and water (just in case this goes on for a long time and the photos disappear) ... keeping in mind that they were taken two days after draining of the lake began.

First I wanted to comment on this photo. If you figure that the girls bikes were found about where the left front of the police cruiser is, and the purse was found right behind where the rower is: that would be approx. 20'.

I cannot find where I read about the dogs tracking the scent but I do have this:

BROUSSEAU: I just wanted to say one more thing, you know, about those bloodhounds that were brought in by the FBI. They did one at a time. One for Elizabeth and one for Lyric. And I was explain to you, so the bikes were found right where those -- the rocky area is, where they`re guessing the girls may have entered the lake at.

But I was there, I watched the bloodhounds continue on into this dense forest area, which is about 400 yards. I watched them go into that area and they positively identified both girls were at that location.

GRACE: Right, at the edge of the water.

BROUSSEAU: And --

GRACE: Go ahead.

BROUSSEAU: Yes, not, you know, not at the -- just at the edge of the water. If you continue on down the bike trail east, there is about approximately 400 acres of forest, dense forest to the left side, and that is where the dogs continued on to and picked up the girls` scent. And that`s when they stopped and brought the dog back and they did the next dog.

The next dog positively identified the next girl`s person to be in that forest. And that`s kind of where I believe it went cold for them. The dogs couldn`t pick up anymore scent. I`m not saying for sure that they couldn`t pick up more scent and go on further, but that is where the investigators stopped, brought the dogs back, told us that, yes, the dogs positively identified the girls to go past the site where the bikes were dropped and farther on into the forest.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/19/ng.01.html

I know this is just Tammy's word, but I know I read it somewhere or it was in a press briefing. I have TONS of links, but as you well know, if you don't copy and paste info when it's first released, articles are upgraded and edited.

I'll look at the press releases later.

 

[Thinkzerz]

If a car can get onto the trail then why not an ATV? Maybe the girls got onto an ATV?

 

[otto]

But...did you notice that about 10 ft into the path from the grassy area is very secluded. I really don't think a vehicle would of been noticed. Especially if there was a look out person. The trees and brush are pretty thick.

Looking at the trail, and knowing that it's 10 feet wide with no where to turn around, any stray vehicle would have to travel quite a distance along the path - parallel to the highway for a stretch (where there was construction, slowed single lane traffic) - and not be seen by anyone at the lake, on the trail, in any of the nearby houses, or on the highway. I don't think that's likely.

 

[Thinkzerz]

First I wanted to comment on this photo. If you figure that the girls bikes were found about where the left front of the police cruiser is, and the purse was found right behind where the rower is: that would be approx. 20'.

I cannot find where I read about the dogs tracking the scent but I do have this:

BROUSSEAU: I just wanted to say one more thing, you know, about those bloodhounds that were brought in by the FBI. They did one at a time. One for Elizabeth and one for Lyric. And I was explain to you, so the bikes were found right where those -- the rocky area is, where they`re guessing the girls may have entered the lake at.

But I was there, I watched the bloodhounds continue on into this dense forest area, which is about 400 yards. I watched them go into that area and they positively identified both girls were at that location.

GRACE: Right, at the edge of the water.

BROUSSEAU: And --

GRACE: Go ahead.

BROUSSEAU: Yes, not, you know, not at the -- just at the edge of the water. If you continue on down the bike trail east, there is about approximately 400 acres of forest, dense forest to the left side, and that is where the dogs continued on to and picked up the girls` scent. And that`s when they stopped and brought the dog back and they did the next dog.

The next dog positively identified the next girl`s person to be in that forest. And that`s kind of where I believe it went cold for them. The dogs couldn`t pick up anymore scent. I`m not saying for sure that they couldn`t pick up more scent and go on further, but that is where the investigators stopped, brought the dogs back, told us that, yes, the dogs positively identified the girls to go past the site where the bikes were dropped and farther on into the forest.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/19/ng.01.html

I know this is just Tammy's word, but I know I read it somewhere or it was in a press briefing. I have TONS of links, but as you well know, if you don't copy and paste info when it's first released, articles are upgraded and edited.

I'll look at the press releases later.

Why on earth would LE not let the dogs keep going? They had to of done that. So the girls did leave this water edge area.

 

[nervous_nellie]

First I wanted to comment on this photo. If you figure that the girls bikes were found about where the left front of the police cruiser is, and the purse was found right behind where the rower is: that would be approx. 20'.

I cannot find where I read about the dogs tracking the scent but I do have this:

BROUSSEAU: I just wanted to say one more thing, you know, about those bloodhounds that were brought in by the FBI. They did one at a time. One for Elizabeth and one for Lyric. And I was explain to you, so the bikes were found right where those -- the rocky area is, where they`re guessing the girls may have entered the lake at.

But I was there, I watched the bloodhounds continue on into this dense forest area, which is about 400 yards. I watched them go into that area and they positively identified both girls were at that location.

GRACE: Right, at the edge of the water.

BROUSSEAU: And --

GRACE: Go ahead.

BROUSSEAU: Yes, not, you know, not at the -- just at the edge of the water. If you continue on down the bike trail east, there is about approximately 400 acres of forest, dense forest to the left side, and that is where the dogs continued on to and picked up the girls` scent. And that`s when they stopped and brought the dog back and they did the next dog.

The next dog positively identified the next girl`s person to be in that forest. And that`s kind of where I believe it went cold for them. The dogs couldn`t pick up anymore scent. I`m not saying for sure that they couldn`t pick up more scent and go on further, but that is where the investigators stopped, brought the dogs back, told us that, yes, the dogs positively identified the girls to go past the site where the bikes were dropped and farther on into the forest.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/19/ng.01.html

I know this is just Tammy's word, but I know I read it somewhere or it was in a press briefing. I have TONS of links, but as you well know, if you don't copy and paste info when it's first released, articles are upgraded and edited.

I'll look at the press releases later.

wow, could they have ran into the lake area to get away from someone? im sure this has been asked but i had never seen this pic used as an example of how close all of this was to the lake and the gate etc...wow

 

[Thinkzerz]

From the link posted by Marnie http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/19/ng.01.html

It sounds like the girls were skipping rocks or something and was reverted through the bushes. Someone saw them and lured them to a car/van IMO

 

[katydid23]

First I wanted to comment on this photo. If you figure that the girls bikes were found about where the left front of the police cruiser is, and the purse was found right behind where the rower is: that would be approx. 20'.

I cannot find where I read about the dogs tracking the scent but I do have this:

BROUSSEAU: I just wanted to say one more thing, you know, about those bloodhounds that were brought in by the FBI. They did one at a time. One for Elizabeth and one for Lyric. And I was explain to you, so the bikes were found right where those -- the rocky area is, where they`re guessing the girls may have entered the lake at.

But I was there, I watched the bloodhounds continue on into this dense forest area, which is about 400 yards. I watched them go into that area and they positively identified both girls were at that location.

GRACE: Right, at the edge of the water.

BROUSSEAU: And --

GRACE: Go ahead.

BROUSSEAU: Yes, not, you know, not at the -- just at the edge of the water. If you continue on down the bike trail east, there is about approximately 400 acres of forest, dense forest to the left side, and that is where the dogs continued on to and picked up the girls` scent. And that`s when they stopped and brought the dog back and they did the next dog.

The next dog positively identified the next girl`s person to be in that forest. And that`s kind of where I believe it went cold for them. The dogs couldn`t pick up anymore scent. I`m not saying for sure that they couldn`t pick up more scent and go on further, but that is where the investigators stopped, brought the dogs back, told us that, yes, the dogs positively identified the girls to go past the site where the bikes were dropped and farther on into the forest.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/19/ng.01.html

I know this is just Tammy's word, but I know I read it somewhere or it was in a press briefing. I have TONS of links, but as you well know, if you don't copy and paste info when it's first released, articles are upgraded and edited.

I'll look at the press releases later.

Maybe the perps had their vehicle close to where the dogs tracked the girls scent in the wooded area 400 yds to the east.

OR maybe, Tammy was misinterpreting what the dogs were doing. According to what LE said at one point, they were not certain that the girls were ever at the lake, only that the bikes were. And it is possible that the dogs were alerting to the bikes.

And if the girls had been there earlier that day or ona previous day, the dogs would have followed the most recent scent, which might not have been from the time they went missing.

Also, our resident dog expert, SARX, said it is possible that someone watching the dogs could misinterpret what they are seeing. So if Tammy or Misty watched the dogs and saw them go into the wooded area, they might ASSUME it meant they were following the girls scent. BUt it might have been them trying to find the scent, but not being able to. We don't really know what the dog handlers found. imo

 

[Considering]

One more thing I thought about today, I mean no disrespect to the little girls or their loved ones.

Anyone know if a wildfire or a fire in a strange place has been reported?

(I'm thinking about J. Duncan and what he did.)

Iowa has occasional grassfires but not wildfires the way they do out west. There's just not enough uncultivated land for that to happen. Roadsides are the high risk areas. That, of course, means that grassfires are pretty easy to fight since the local fire department can pull right up next to the fire to hose it down.

Right now, with the drought, any column of smoke would be reported and investigated ASAP.

There's probably a "burn ban" right now since it's been so dry. People have a tendence to forget, though. I'm sure LE would be called but as busy as they've been, I wonder if they've had time to investigate or if they've just reminded people that no burning is not allowed? I'm not meaning a grass fire/wild fire, of course. Just someone burning.

 

[nervous_nellie]

not iowa, but still scary...

sex ring busted...

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...t_international_child_porn_network_uncovered/

scary stuff... these people could be anywhere...