IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #24

[SapphireSteel]

Kind of O/T, but this morning while driving my kids to school, I couldn't help but notice the amount of young girls I saw walking to school alone. I know a lot of people don't think abduction and it will never happen to them. Maybe I am just jaded and more aware because of WS, I don't know, but I am floored at the amount of small kids I saw walking alone today. It really shakes me to the core seeing that and how easy it would be for someone to snatch up one of these young kids I saw walking alone. It's so scary!! :what:

It is scary, but I did it, so did the hundreds of kids I went to school with, all grown up safe and with kids of their own now who are also doing it.

The kids of today are at far more risk of dying before their parents simply because of obesity, due largely to the fact they don't walk or bike anywhere any more. The fat is far more likely to kill them than a creeper on the street.

I know Iowa is kind of in a state of "should we panic?" but we still don't know more than day one, which is the girls vanished.

We don't know it was a predator, some of us (me) are very skeptical that it was. Some of us see far more likely motives.

I don't even think the girls were assaulted, personally, just executed. Time will tell.



:cow:

 

[Gracelin]

Ignore the woman with the who's in jail link.. wrong year... lol.. I had so hoped today was the day..murder arrests are so rare in that town..

 

[otto]

He originally said 12:30 - 1:30. I believe he was told by LE to change that to a wider window when speaking to the media. I have a reason for believing that, but I can't discuss it without violating TOS. But if my suspect is the killer, I understand why police would want him to think they were looking at a larger window (and thereby, not suspecting him).

I have no reason to discredit Mr. C. We KNOW Elizabeth had ridden there before (Per Tammy), so why couldn't he have seen her on those rides? He didn't say "every day" - he just said "often."

We know that Elizabeth had ridden her bike to the lake once or twice, but we don't know that she rode her bike to Lake Avenue. Based on information from the family, Elizabeth did not ride her bike along Lake Avenue on a daily basis ... which contradicts the claims from the lawn watering man.

"“We see them practically all the time ride their bikes right past our house, but they come down and turn around in the street,” he said."

...

"“I broke down for the first time because I was so used to, especially Elizabeth, seeing her every night ride her bicycle and she always stopped and talked to people. She was a friendly little girl,” Marcella Carpenter said. “You know, it’s hard when you’ve got a grandchild the same age.”

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...-missing-Iowa-girls-after-their-disappearance

 

[NWLady]

I cannot for the life of me figure out how to reply to a specific post :banghead: If someone could help me with this, I would sure appreciate it, but in the meantime, I'll have to just do it this way...
In regards to Teeny Taurus, Post #1758 on Thread 23, yes that You Tube link is the interview I had mentioned. I had not seen or heard of that interview before and thought others may find it interesting as well.

Also, in regards to rose of sharon and JP being "interviewed" versus him "discussing" with LE, I apologize if my reply sounded snarky, it just took me by surprise that he had actually been "interviewed" because I hadn't remembered seeing that. So I am sorry if I came across the wrong way on my response to your post about that. :blushing:

I had lurked on WS for quite awhile following this case and when I did finally join, I messaged Salem and asked a couple of questions about what I could and could not discuss - the reason being, a person associated with the surveillance video had me very curious, and Salem was going to let nursebeeme address my question on that as he wasn't sure who I was referring to.

Nursebeeme, if you do happen to catch this post that I am typing now, could you please message me so that I can ask you about this...(I would message you but I'm not sure how to do that) And then if it's okay for me to discuss/post my thoughts on that specific area, then I will share with everybody.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I'm just thinking that if we look only at what has been officially stated regarding the bloodhounds, and ignore all the speculations and rumor, then it sounds like the bloodhounds simply identified the bikes that were at the water. Based on official information, it does not sound like the bloodhounds tracked in any direction away from the bikes, which would suggest to me that the scent could have been on the bikes, but that there was no "oldest to newest" scent leaving the bikes.

FBI Breault: “The scent did lead to the water, which is also where their bikes were found."

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_e795f002-d1ad-11e1-b983-001a4bcf887a.html

I think my literal mindedness is kicking in because I definitely remember that the bicycles were found on the trail, separated by the fence from the water. So to me, it sounds like the dogs hit on the spot on the trail where the bicycles were found and then followed a track to the water, which is in a different spot.

However, that may be the wrong interpretation. You may be correct, maybe the dogs didn't go anywhere else.

 

[imamaze]

I cannot for the life of me figure out how to reply to a specific post :banghead: If someone could help me with this, I would sure appreciate it, but in the meantime, I'll have to just do it this way...
In regards to Teeny Taurus, Post #1758 on Thread 23, yes that You Tube link is the interview I had mentioned. I had not seen or heard of that interview before and thought others may find it interesting as well.

Also, in regards to rose of sharon and JP being "interviewed" versus him "discussing" with LE, I apologize if my reply sounded snarky, it just took me by surprise that he had actually been "interviewed" because I hadn't remembered seeing that. So I am sorry if I came across the wrong way on my response to your post about that. :blushing:

I had lurked on WS for quite awhile following this case and when I did finally join, I messaged Salem and asked a couple of questions about what I could and could not discuss - the reason being, a person associated with the surveillance video had me very curious, and Salem was going to let nursebeeme address my question on that as he wasn't sure who I was referring to.

Nursebeeme, if you do happen to catch this post that I am typing now, could you please message me so that I can ask you about this...(I would message you but I'm not sure how to do that) And then if it's okay for me to discuss/post my thoughts on that specific area, then I will share with everybody.

Hi NWLady,
In the bottom right corner you will see a Quote button. When you come to a post you want to reply to just click on the quote button and it will do that for you.

Ima

 

[nursebeeme]

http://www.kcrg.com/home/top-9/-Par...-Push-for-Death-Penalty-Debate-183828791.html

Drew and Heather at meeting about death penalty debate

 

[foxbluff]

I am so relieved to see that Heather Collins will be having that, IMO, much needed surgery on Friday at Mayo Clinic.
http://www.kwwl.com/story/20358289/2012/12/16/elizabeth-collins-mother-to-undergo-surgery-friday

 

[neverletgo]

I cannot for the life of me figure out how to reply to a specific post :banghead: If someone could help me with this, I would sure appreciate it, but in the meantime, I'll have to just do it this way...
In regards to Teeny Taurus, Post #1758 on Thread 23, yes that You Tube link is the interview I had mentioned. I had not seen or heard of that interview before and thought others may find it interesting as well.

Also, in regards to rose of sharon and JP being "interviewed" versus him "discussing" with LE, I apologize if my reply sounded snarky, it just took me by surprise that he had actually been "interviewed" because I hadn't remembered seeing that. So I am sorry if I came across the wrong way on my response to your post about that. :blushing:

I had lurked on WS for quite awhile following this case and when I did finally join, I messaged Salem and asked a couple of questions about what I could and could not discuss - the reason being, a person associated with the surveillance video had me very curious, and Salem was going to let nursebeeme address my question on that as he wasn't sure who I was referring to.

Nursebeeme, if you do happen to catch this post that I am typing now, could you please message me so that I can ask you about this...(I would message you but I'm not sure how to do that) And then if it's okay for me to discuss/post my thoughts on that specific area, then I will share with everybody.

Thread 23 is closed so that may be why you were having problems quoting that post, so don't feel bad!

At the top of your screen, there should be a link that says 'Quick Links' with an inverted triangle next to it. If you click on that, a menu will drop down and towards the bottom under 'Miscellaneous' there is a link that says 'Private Messages'. That will take you to your inbox. On the left hand side of the screen, under 'Private Messages', there is a 'Send New Message' link.

Alternatively, you can click on the button next to the person's username on a post and a box will pop up with options, including the ability to send a private message to that person ( see screenshot I did of Ima's post below for example -- I circled the button in red ):

Those are just two ways you can go about sending a private message. Hope that helped! Also, I alerted on your post (using the triangle outlined in red in the upper right hand corner of your post) to let a mod know you have questions regarding what you can/cannot discuss.

 

[carbuff]

We know that Elizabeth had ridden her bike to the lake once or twice, but we don't know that she rode her bike to Lake Avenue. Based on information from the family, Elizabeth did not ride her bike along Lake Avenue on a daily basis ... which contradicts the claims from the lawn watering man.

"“We see them practically all the time ride their bikes right past our house, but they come down and turn around in the street,” he said."

...

"“I broke down for the first time because I was so used to, especially Elizabeth, seeing her every night ride her bicycle and she always stopped and talked to people. She was a friendly little girl,” Marcella Carpenter said. “You know, it’s hard when you’ve got a grandchild the same age.”

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...-missing-Iowa-girls-after-their-disappearance

This makes me wonder if Elizabeth was more adventurous than the family knew. I know when I was that age I was in the habit of going places and just not bothering to say anything unless I got caught, and my mom didn't seem to realize that I didn't get caught every time. Mostly I didn't go very far, but I remember having a fascination with water. I could have drowned a dozen times over and she wouldn't have had a clue as to where to look.

 

[iamnotagolem]

This makes me wonder if Elizabeth was more adventurous than the family knew. I know when I was that age I was in the habit of going places and just not bothering to say anything unless I got caught, and my mom didn't seem to realize that I didn't get caught every time. Mostly I didn't go very far, but I remember having a fascination with water. I could have drowned a dozen times over and she wouldn't have had a clue as to where to look.

But surely your mom knew that you didn't always follow the rules, even if she caught you only one out of every five times that you ventured off without permission, she knew you did it some.

Either Heather and Drew were completely unaware of what their 8 year old was doing all the time, or she really was a good kid who didn't routinely ride her bike a mile away from home without permission.

Eta: it's not that the girls went a little bit further than they were allowed or what was acceptable, their bikes were found at the furthest south point in their town. That isn't just pushing boundaries, they were on the opposite end of town. I could see wandering a few blocks beyond what was allowed, but a mile away to the edge of town seems like very uncharacteristic, risky behavior for an 8 and 10 y/o.

 

[carbuff]

But surely your mom knew that you didn't always follow the rules, even if she caught you only one out of every five times that you ventured off without permission, she knew you did it some.

Either Heather and Drew were completely unaware of what their 8 year old was doing all the time, or she really was a good kid who didn't routinely ride her bike a mile away from home without permission.

I'm sure she was a good kid. And you're probably right -- but it just makes me wonder, y'know? Like a loose end that doesn't quite tuck in anywhere.

 

[iamnotagolem]

I'm sure she was a good kid. And you're probably right -- but it just makes me wonder, y'know? Like a loose end that doesn't quite tuck in anywhere.

It is quite strange, if the girls did indeed ride their bikes down to the lake. Personally, I don't think they did. But if they did, I wonder if Aunt Tammy allowed them to? If they were used to getting permission from Aunt Tammy, then I could see them doing it when Grandma was watching them, too.

It was where Tammy suggested they look, so maybe she had been allowing them to ride down there but didn't tell their parents.

I really don't know, too much unknown.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Case Archive:

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/...izabeth Collins - Lyric Cook-Morrissey -IA-/

 

[nursebeeme]

Case Archive:

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/...izabeth Collins - Lyric Cook-Morrissey -IA-/

thanks 'manda! I put it on the OP as well:rocker:

 

[carbuff]

It is quite strange, if the girls did indeed ride their bikes down to the lake. Personally, I don't think they did. But if they did, I wonder if Aunt Tammy allowed them to? If they were used to getting permission from Aunt Tammy, then I could see them doing it when Grandma was watching them, too.

It was where Tammy suggested they look, so maybe she had been allowing them to ride down there but didn't tell their parents.

I really don't know, too much unknown.

Hm, I didn't realize Tammy was the one who suggested they look there.

 

[daisynae]

Oh Yes she did! They were driving around looking for the girls and ou of nowhere Tammy said "THE LAKE"
she said that on Jane Velez= Mitchell or Nancy Grace one of them.

 

[GrainneDhu]

But surely your mom knew that you didn't always follow the rules, even if she caught you only one out of every five times that you ventured off without permission, she knew you did it some.

Either Heather and Drew were completely unaware of what their 8 year old was doing all the time, or she really was a good kid who didn't routinely ride her bike a mile away from home without permission.

Eta: it's not that the girls went a little bit further than they were allowed or what was acceptable, their bikes were found at the furthest south point in their town. That isn't just pushing boundaries, they were on the opposite end of town. I could see wandering a few blocks beyond what was allowed, but a mile away to the edge of town seems like very uncharacteristic, risky behavior for an 8 and 10 y/o.

I was thinking about this last night. I'm not so sure an 8 year old or even a 10 year old would see going for a bike ride outside their allowed boundaries as risky behaviour. Or they might see it as risky in the sense of "look both ways before crossing any streets." In other words, they may have believed they knew what the risks were and believed they knew how to handle them.

Children just don't see the world the same way adults do and they don't really understand what the risks are. Hence the plethora of TV shows where children whose parents were adamant knew about "stranger danger," knew not to give their names to strangers, knew not to go anywhere with a stranger, etc, are then shocked and horrified to discover that their children will give their names to a stranger and go off with them in a very trusting way.

What parents think they are teaching their children is not always what their children are learning. And sometimes loving, devoted parents are completely wrong about what their child might do or not do.

 

[iamnotagolem]

I was thinking about this last night. I'm not so sure an 8 year old or even a 10 year old would see going for a bike ride outside their allowed boundaries as risky behaviour. Or they might see it as risky in the sense of "look both ways before crossing any streets." In other words, they may have believed they knew what the risks were and believed they knew how to handle them.

Children just don't see the world the same way adults do and they don't really understand what the risks are. Hence the plethora of TV shows where children whose parents were adamant knew about "stranger danger," knew not to give their names to strangers, knew not to go anywhere with a stranger, etc, are then shocked and horrified to discover that their children will give their names to a stranger and go off with them in a very trusting way.

What parents think they are teaching their children is not always what their children are learning. And sometimes loving, devoted parents are completely wrong about what their child might do or not do.

I disagree, in that while I don't think they understood the risks involved, I think if they were allowed 3 blocks in either direction, riding 1 mile would be a huge risk. They risked being late for grandma, they risked being caught by their moms, they risked losing their bike riding privileges if they were caught. Not to mention Lyric had the police called a few days prior to this, I don't think she would ride that far away and risk getting in trouble again.

 

[otto]

I think my literal mindedness is kicking in because I definitely remember that the bicycles were found on the trail, separated by the fence from the water. So to me, it sounds like the dogs hit on the spot on the trail where the bicycles were found and then followed a track to the water, which is in a different spot.

However, that may be the wrong interpretation. You may be correct, maybe the dogs didn't go anywhere else.

My understanding is that the bikes were found at the unlocked gate next to the drainage pipe. If the dogs tracked to the water where the bikes were, then it suggests to me that they didn't really track anywhere. They were no more than a 10-15 foot distance from the bikes. If we assume that the dogs were tracking, then the only possibilities are that the girls went into the lake - and we know that didn't happen, or they got into a boat. It is possible that they got into a boat, but so far there is nothing to support this theory. In fact, Breault said that without any independent confirmation that the girls were at the lake, she couldn't say that the girls were at the lake.

Tammy said that the dogs went towards the trees, but it's quite possible that the handlers took the dogs to the treed area to see if they picked up a scent.