IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #34

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carbuff said:
Am I remembering correctly that LE has never included the cyclist's sighting in their information?
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That's true. The cyclist's sighting just didn't make sense with all the other times that police had - in particular the video timestamp.
 
skeet said:
You are correct, that's why, in my mind anyway, I go with the 12:30 to 1:00 pm sitings because they did use that time on the "missing posters" they put up of the girls.
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I would tend to take those times more seriously, for sure.
 
otto said:
I did a google search yesterday for: white boxy Evansdale. I think one tip suggested a ford, another suggested a chev, one said it was older ... if you find the links, please paste the location details.
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http://www.bhcso.org/ContentPage.aspx?id=187 Click on press releases for June 2013 and this gives the Evansdale Missing Cousins Law Enforcement Update (06/24/2013). Not sure if this is what you were asking for, but just in case I posted a link.
 
What if the children cycled to the lake twice, route 1 and route 2. The first time accounts for heading to the parking lot, the sighting at the Fareway store and the second trip accounts for the video timeline, the sightings at Lake avenue and Arbutus and the bikes at the gate at 12:28-ish.

Small arrows are the first trip, larger arrows are the second trip.

The purple line is the established bike trails

The two bike trail signs would refer to the Cedar Valley Nature Trail and the Evansdale Nature Trail

When did they stop in to pour a glass of juice? They poured the juice but didn't drink it. Could that have been between the two trips ... if they cycled there twice? Could the stop in the house have been for Elizabeth to get her purse - where they didn't want Wylma to know what they were doing, so they poured juice while they got the purse, then forgot about drinking the juice?

 
To me the girl's were at the lake the dog's found their scent they were giving from the sneakers GMA had at home tha belonged to both girl's those dog's went right into the wood's stopped when they had no scent to follow they were taken towards the lake and picked up a scent there also.I belive the wooded area is the abduction take's place .The purse and the toy phone were found there also . I just can't see a staging in this abduction .It would be crazy to lift two bike's and place them on the trail then throw the purse and phone .I should think the criminal mind would be afraid of being seen by someone at the lake. It would have been a simple matter to stun gun the girl's and put them into the white SUV and drive off to wherever .L E has never given up the condition of those gitl's body's .Any hunter or Klunder may have access to a refrigeration unit and hid the girl's till they could put their bodie's at Seven Bridges it is a horrible thing what happen to them . Thank you Otto alway's for you wonderful input and map's . Feel better soon .
 
otto said:
What if the children cycled to the lake twice, route 1 and route 2. The first time accounts for heading to the parking lot, the sighting at the Fareway store and the second trip accounts for the video timeline, the sightings at Lake avenue and Arbutus and the bikes at the gate at 12:28-ish.

Small arrows are the first trip, larger arrows are the second trip.

The purple line is the established bike trails

The two bike trail signs would refer to the Cedar Valley Nature Trail and the Evansdale Nature Trail

When did they stop in to pour a glass of juice? They poured the juice but didn't drink it. Could that have been between the two trips ... if they cycled there twice? Could the stop in the house have been for Elizabeth to get her purse - where they didn't want Wylma to know what they were doing, so they poured juice while they got the purse, then forgot about drinking the juice?

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This scenario makes sense to me. For whatever reason I just haven't been able shake those comments/rumors about the girls stopping and asking for directions to the lake at Fareway.

With the SUV being seen further down Arbutus and then closer to the lake it makes me think that this person had expected them to come down the bike trail.

Any locals able to speak to whether or not if you were sitting down a bit on Arbatus - would you be able to appear parked on the street and still see when someone came down the bike trail and crossed towards the lake?

These girls were in a hurry - no doubt about it. I think they (for whatever reason) KNEW if they asked - they'd be told NO (to going to the lake) - so they checked back in quickly (long enough to grab juice) and back on the bikes they went.

This person could have spoke with them earlier - told them to meet at the lake - and they sat further down on Arbutus, waited until they saw them cross over to the back of the lake - and then pulled into the wooded area.
 
I'm not saying staging is an impossible idea, but IMO I still think the girls were taken at the lake after they got off their bikes, possibly to go into the woods, to explore, to catch a rabbit, anything? Still think they were followed.
 
threecrazykids said:
Refresh my memory SS - I know your perp, but I can't remember if you believe the girls actually rode to the lake and were taken from there...or if you thought they were taken from somewhere else and the bikes were put at the lake. :waitasec:

I think remember you saying that you didn't doubt their clothing/scent could have been dragged from the bikes to the wooded area and drug around there in an attempt to deceive.

I just don't remember what your thoughts were on WHERE the abduction actually took place.

Thanks!
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Here is what I posted back in the day, actually over a year ago now, and nothing has changed or challenged my theory one iota since.

It's great to see you guys catching up with me!:drumroll:

Just joking...

SapphireSteel said:
No worries, as long as I'm not going to get beaten up again for doing so.

Trying to walk a fine line here with TOS but here goes -

First of all you can totally disregard all paddleboats, puppies, fishing boys, horses, campers, Craigs Listers, online boyfriends, empty houses, second hand sightings.

The witnesses we know about are not involved apart from being honest citizens.

I believe the girls arrived home that day, shortly after 12, as expected. I believe they went back out again on a "mission" of some sort.

I believe they COULD have been to the lake earlier on this mission, were not successful, and had to go back a second time, and quickly!

I believe they were captured either right at or very near the lake. By a white van.

I believe TG saw the bikes when he said he did, (maybe about 12.23) and Mr C saw the girls at about 12.18 but has been told to be vague.

I believe they were then intercepted by someone they knew with a story, such as, gramma has taken ill, drop your bikes, quick lets get to the hospital.


I believe the girls may well have been still in the wooded area when Mr G biked past.

I believe there was an older male perp and a younger male perp.

I believe that IF the bikes were staged, it was done by the younger perp under instructions, who then left on foot therefore was not noticed.

IF they were staged, the younger perp went so far as to drag items of their clothing around the scene to confuse the scent, as he had been instructed.

I believe the girls were first taken to Elk Run Heights...perhaps a property, perhaps just a meet up with another perp/vehicle.

From there they were taken God knows where.

I believe the original plan was merely to hide them (motives I cannot discuss) but the main instigator has done a back flip and actually murdered them on the day...he had always planned it this way unbeknownst to his co-conspirators, some of whom had no clue this was part of his plan.

I believe the motive is not sexual but money, and/or another benefit, and I believe this part of the plan has worked out as hoped.

This was VERY well planned, and not random.

All my humble opinion and not intended to replace fact.

I could well do a 180 if other evidence comes to light but based on what we have, that is what I believe happened.

:cow:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8304130&postcount=157
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:pullhair:
 
Sapphire, I agreed with you last night and have no idea where my post is. Lol
Full circle with little new to discuss. I pray for the perp to be found.
 
SapphireSteel said:
Here is what I posted back in the day, actually over a year ago now, and nothing has changed or challenged my theory one iota since.

It's great to see you guys catching up with me!:drumroll:

Just joking...



:pullhair:
Click to expand...

Oh yeah?!! Well they are looking for a white SUV, not a white van like you predicted...so there!

:snooty:

:floorlaugh:
 
threecrazykids said:
Oh yeah?!! Well they are looking for a white SUV, not a white van like you predicted...so there!

:snooty:

:floorlaugh:
Click to expand...

Lol!...well the picture on google maps shows a van/suv/boxlike white mess that looks handmade.

:p
 
threecrazykids said:
Oh yeah?!! Well they are looking for a white SUV, not a white van like you predicted...so there!

:snooty:

:floorlaugh:
Click to expand...

The FBI made a public request for the driver of a white van to come forward in the last week of July, 2012. It was related to a white van at a gas station. That man was ruled out. Because of this, many people were still focused on a "white van" in August.

June 2013
“This is an SUV, a large SUV,” Smock said. “It has been described as an older model Chevy Suburban, — but we don’t know that for sure — boxy and definitely full sized.”

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_bc5363a2-dcf1-11e2-be6a-001a4bcf887a.html

June 2013
"All three of the witnesses describe the vehicle as a large and clunky white SUV. One of the witnesses described the SUV as an old-style boxy suburban."

http://www.kwwl.com/story/22671327/2013/06/24/evansdale

August 4, 2012
“They get to the point of being frivolous,” said Sgt. Cristy Hamblin, spokeswoman for the Cedar Rapids police, who have sorted through more than 40 suspicious white van reports in recent days. “Some of them are people who just call in and say, ‘There’s a white van driving in my neighborhood.’ There’s no description. There’s nothing. It’s a waste of their time and of our time.”

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...ons-wary-public-jumps-shadows-?nclick_check=1
 
I am using the word "van" as an older person would.

Back in the day, there were no SUVs.

The term "SUV" is a new one, with the first common usage around the mid nineties.

Wylma and myself both come from an era where big white boxy vehicles were generically referred to as "vans".

This is what I mean - I would actually call this a van - it's definitely not an SUV as I understand it.

https://maps.google.com.au/maps?saf...uv"&ie=UTF-8&ei=5uwoUtr3FY2jkwXWxIHoDA&*****g

Not sure if the link is going to work, pm me if you wish to see it.

Now that there in the street view, is what I would call a "van".

ETA: the link doesn't work. :(

Anyway, any older vehicle earlier than the mid nineties, would NOT be described as an SUV by an older person, even if it is an SUV.

:cow:

:seeya:
 
SapphireSteel said:
I am using the word "van" as an older person would.

Back in the day, there were no SUVs.

The term "SUV" is a new one, with the first common usage around the mid nineties.

Wylma and myself both come from an era where big white boxy vehicles were generically referred to as "vans".

This is what I mean - I would actually call this a van - it's definitely not an SUV as I understand it.

https://maps.google.com.au/maps?saf...uv"&ie=UTF-8&ei=5uwoUtr3FY2jkwXWxIHoDA&*****g

Not sure if the link is going to work, pm me if you wish to see it.

Now that there in the street view, is what I would call a "van".

ETA: the link doesn't work. :(

Anyway, any older vehicle earlier than the mid nineties, would NOT be described as an SUV by an older person, even if it is an SUV.

:cow:

:seeya:
Click to expand...

An SUV is the modern "station wagon". The SUV has a spot for the engine in the front, like a station wagon. A van has always been a van.
 
otto said:
An SUV is the modern "station wagon". The SUV has a spot for the engine in the front, like a station wagon. A van has always been a van.
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No, the Brady Bunch had a station wagon and they are quite different.

They weren't 4wd for a start, nor designed to take off road. They were big, long, comfortable people movers.

There is no such thing as an SUV in Australia. We call them 4x4's or even by the brand name, Jeep, Rav4 etc.

The thing I'm trying to emphasise here that what is described as an "SUV" or
"van" by folks from different cultures and age groups, can mean the same thing, despite what your personal understanding is.

As Wylma is from a generation where SUV's didn't exist, I can understand her not using this term, or exchanging "van" for it. "SUV" is a new word so not one an elderly person is going to automatically use.


:cow:
 
SapphireSteel said:
No, the Brady Bunch had a station wagon and they are quite different.

They weren't 4wd for a start, nor designed to take off road. They were big, long, comfortable people movers.

There is no such thing as an SUV in Australia. We call them 4x4's or even by the brand name, Jeep, Rav4 etc.

The thing I'm trying to emphasise here that what is described as an "SUV" or
"van" by folks from different cultures and age groups, can mean the same thing, despite what your personal understanding is.

As Wylma is from a generation where SUV's didn't exist, I can understand her not using this term, or exchanging "van" for it. "SUV" is a new word so not one an elderly person is going to automatically use.


:cow:
Click to expand...

Perhaps someone else that owns an SUV would like to check their vehicle registration to see how the vehicle is described ... and then confirm that an SUV is listed as a Station Wagon In my case, my Honda CRV, an SUV, is described as a Station Wagon.
 
otto said:
Perhaps someone else that owns an SUV would like to check their vehicle registration to see how the vehicle is described ... and then confirm that an SUV is listed as a Station Wagon In my case, my Honda CRV, an SUV, is described as a Station Wagon.
Click to expand...

Or, we could just accept the fact that some folks don't have the word "SUV" in their vocabulary.

Such as Australians.

Come down here and ask someone if they've seen your SUV, you probably will be slapped.

:p
 
SapphireSteel said:
No, the Brady Bunch had a station wagon and they are quite different.

They weren't 4wd for a start, nor designed to take off road. They were big, long, comfortable people movers.

There is no such thing as an SUV in Australia. We call them 4x4's or even by the brand name, Jeep, Rav4 etc.

The thing I'm trying to emphasise here that what is described as an "SUV" or
"van" by folks from different cultures and age groups, can mean the same thing, despite what your personal understanding is.

As Wylma is from a generation where SUV's didn't exist, I can understand her not using this term, or exchanging "van" for it. "SUV" is a new word so not one an elderly person is going to automatically use.


:cow:
Click to expand...

:seeya: Checking in to see if there's any new developments.

FWIW, Van vs SUV.
I had a friend over 10 years ago that had an old Chevy Blazer.
To me, it was a 4x4 and a TRUCK. Suburbans etc are land yachts.
SUV's are more contemporary version of a station wagon with 4 wheel drive.

:twocents:
 
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