IL - Christian, 9, & Grace Vasilev, 3, stabbed to death, 27 April 2005 *Insanity*

[Jeana (DP)]

You were an ME? A homicide detective? Because those are the kind of specialists who know the difference. Just working in a medical setting doesn't make you an expert. Especially if it's your opinion that the serious, and multiple, injuries suffered by Darlie Routier were self-inflicted.



RstJ

I think the doctor at Baylor has more to say about Darlie's injuries than anyone and we know what he said. They were NEVER life threatening and they were self inflicted.

 

[cami]

I think the doctor at Baylor has more to say about Darlie's injuries than anyone and we know what he said. They were NEVER life threatening and they were self inflicted.

Oh but DP that's how the supporters get around the guilt, they just ignore the evidence of Darlie's complicity like El Jefe, Rachael and the crowd used to do.

 

[cami]

Oh but DP that's how the supporters get around the guilt, they just ignore the evidence of Darlie's complicity like El Jefe, Rachael and the crowd used to do.

http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/autopsy_photos.html

look at those photos if you want to see defense wounds--real defense wounds that is, not darlie's little scratchs. Warning they are graphic.

 

[Goody]

Susan Smith was a chronic alcoholic carrying on three affairs at the same time. Diane Downs had a sick obsession with a guy in Arizona.

Show me anything even remotely similar in Darlie's background.


RstJ

I have never heard anything about Susan being an alcoholic.[, or that she carried on three affairs at the same time. If anything that girl seemed to be used by men and that was her emotional downfall.

Can't argue about Diane Downs, but she was also totally irresponsible and prone to doing wild and crazy things. Of the three, she is probably the least surprising one to commit such a horrible act.

As for sick obsessions, I think Darlie's was rather simple....she was obsessed with the "living large" lifestyle. One of the first things Darin said after the murders was that they didn't realize how important people were to them, that they got too caught up in the living large lifestyle and valued material things too much. I think there was a lot of truth in his statements.

And you don't have to have a history of obsessions, crimes, etc, to commit murder. It is one of the very few crimes we have where people often have no indication previous to the act that ends the life of another. That's why we are always hearing from families and friends of the defendants charged in these crimes, "I never would have predicted this. He/She was such a nice person, no sign whatsoever of a violent streak or bad temper. I just can't believe it."

 

[RobertStJames]

I have never heard anything about Susan being an alcoholic.[, or that she carried on three affairs at the same time. If anything that girl seemed to be used by men and that was her emotional downfall.

Can't argue about Diane Downs, but she was also totally irresponsible and prone to doing wild and crazy things. Of the three, she is probably the least surprising one to commit such a horrible act.

As for sick obsessions, I think Darlie's was rather simple....she was obsessed with the "living large" lifestyle. One of the first things Darin said after the murders was that they didn't realize how important people were to them, that they got too caught up in the living large lifestyle and valued material things too much. I think there was a lot of truth in his statements.

And you don't have to have a history of obsessions, crimes, etc, to commit murder. It is one of the very few crimes we have where people often have no indication previous to the act that ends the life of another. That's why we are always hearing from families and friends of the defendants charged in these crimes, "I never would have predicted this. He/She was such a nice person, no sign whatsoever of a violent streak or bad temper. I just can't believe it."

Whereas we hear from the experts (homicide detectives, criminologists) who make it clear that people do not turn into murderers out of the blue. Just because someone is good at fooling people doesn't mean their heart isn't black as coal. Look at all the people who thought Peterson was such a great guy.

Susan Smith

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/smith/lie_6.html?sect=3

The fall of 1994 had been full of activity for Susan. She worked full time at Conso, managed a part time college course load at the University of South Carolina, had custody of her two toddler sons and was sexually involved with three men:


It was Darin who was "living large." Jag, boat, etc. Darlie didn't even have an automobile to use at the time of the murders. A few pawnshop gimcracks, a pair of D-size hoots (Darin's idea, of course) and that was about it. The stories about her being in love with the lavish lifestyle are, like so many other things in this case, a complete myth.


RstJ

 

[RobertStJames]

I think the doctor at Baylor has more to say about Darlie's injuries than anyone and we know what he said. They were NEVER life threatening and they were self inflicted.

I think the doctor who saw her at the ER and put her in the ICU knows a lot better than any other experts in this case.


RstJ

 

[RobertStJames]

Yes actually RstJ. I was a Homicide Investigator, a member of Homicide Investigators of Texas, and well involved with this case over the course of 10 years.
Are you ready to side step again?

Excellent. If you were involved for 10yrs, please tell me about:

a) the blood pattern analysis of Darin's jeans
b) the substance of his interview at the hospital
c) Dana Stahl


RstJ

 

[IrishMist]

I think the doctor who saw her at the ER and put her in the ICU knows a lot better than any other experts in this case.


RstJ

She was put into ICU for her privacy. That's it.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I think the doctor who saw her at the ER and put her in the ICU knows a lot better than any other experts in this case.


RstJ

If you would read the information available to you, you would know that he ONLY put her in ICU because her two boys were murdered and he was concerned (a) for her mental well being; and (b) media trying to get a statement.

 

[Dani_T]

If you would read the information available to you, you would know that he ONLY put her in ICU because her two boys were murdered and he was concerned (a) for her mental well being; and (b) media trying to get a statement.

Just in case he wants to make an issue of it:

9 Q. Okay. And after that, where do you
10 put her in the hospital? What is done under your orders?
11 A. The patient can be taken either to a
12 recovery room to recover from the anesthetic, the affects
13 of the anesthetic, until they wake up, or they can be put
14 in the intensive care unit. In her case, we put her in
15 the intensive care unit.
16 Q. Why did you decide to do that?
17 A. My concern was, just from what little
18 I knew of what happened. That I knew she had been
19 injured, and I knew one of her children was dead that I
20 had seen in the ER. And I was told another child was
21 dead at the scene, I was afraid that all this might be a
22 little too much for her.
23 Plus, I knew that there would be a lot
24 of media around, and I didn't want her disturbed, so I
25 put her in the ICU really so we could take care of her a
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
737
1 little bit closer and protect her from anybody who might
2 try to come in and bother her.
3 Q. Okay. What kind of patients are
4 usually taken to the ICU unit?
5 A. Usually critically ill patients that
6 need to be maintained on a ventilator, the breathing
7 machine. That's one criteria for putting someone in the
8 intensive care unit. Someone who is unstable. The blood
9 pressure is unstable, hard to manage. Someone who has
10 multiple injuries, like car wreck victims who will have
11 head, belly and pelvic injuries.
12 Q. Okay. So, Ms. Routier wasn't put in
13 the ICU because she was in critical condition by any
14 means?
15 A. No. Her injuries, by the time we
16 finished in the O.R., I felt pretty clear that we had
17 managed those, and those were of no further danger to
18 her. I was more concerned about her psychological state
19 after all this happened, when she would wake up, and
20 about protecting her from the media and all those kinds
21 of things.
22 Q. You were concerned being -- what you
23 knew about it was a stabbing and her two children had
24 been killed; is that right?
25 A. Correct.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
738

1 Q. And you were concerned about her
2 psychological state and how she might handle that?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And also didn't want the press coming
5 in and asking her questions?
6 A. Correct.

 

[mysteriew]

A Hoffman Estates woman accused of fatally stabbing her two young children remains "confused'' about why she is jailed, but is receiving weekly visits from her husband, the father of the slain children, her attorney said Thursday.

Tonya Vasilev, 34, faces first-degree murder charges for the April 27 stabbing deaths of her children, Christian, 9, and Grace, 3.

During a short court appearance Thursday, her attorney entered not guilty pleas on behalf of Vasilev, who appeared dazed and said little, except to haltingly answer "yes'' to several questions from Judge Thomas Fecarotta.

Court-appointed defense attorneys have indicated they will raise an insanity defense against the murder charges, which carry a possible death sentence.

"She has a long history, dating back to her childhood, of being hospitalized for mental illness,'' said attorney Julie Koehler.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-vasilev10.html

 

[CaliKid]

I'll bet that if they could go back and re-investigate the fire, they'd find she started it.

 

[Brefie]

Just heard on WGN news today that the mother has been declared unfit to stand trial. She is depressed, so will undergo treatment for a year and be re evaluated.

 

[Jules]

Mother declared unfit for her trial
By Kara Spak
Daily Herald Legal Affairs Writer
Posted Thursday, September 29, 2005

Tonya Vasilev wants to plead guilty to murdering her two children in their Hoffman Estates home in exchange for the death penalty.

She doesn’t trust her attorneys as they try to shepherd her through the legal system.

She’s severely depressed and suffers from delusions she’s being persecuted.

She’s self-destructive and suicidal.

Those are the reasons a court-appointed psychiatrist Wednesday said Vasilev isn’t mentally fit to stand trial on charges she fatally stabbed her children, 9-year-old Christian and 3-year-old Gracie, in April.

Cook County Judge Lawrence Fox agreed with Dr. Matthew Markos, the sole witness at the hearing, and ordered Vasilev to be moved from the Cook County jail into a secure mental health facility.

She will receive medication and other psychiatric treatment there in hopes of restoring mental fitness for trial within one year

http://www.dailyherald.com/story.asp?id=99785

 

[MistyGirl]

Mother declared unfit for her trial
By Kara Spak
Daily Herald Legal Affairs Writer
Posted Thursday, September 29, 2005

Tonya Vasilev wants to plead guilty to murdering her two children in their Hoffman Estates home in exchange for the death penalty.

She doesn’t trust her attorneys as they try to shepherd her through the legal system.

She’s severely depressed and suffers from delusions she’s being persecuted.

She’s self-destructive and suicidal.

Those are the reasons a court-appointed psychiatrist Wednesday said Vasilev isn’t mentally fit to stand trial on charges she fatally stabbed her children, 9-year-old Christian and 3-year-old Gracie, in April.

Cook County Judge Lawrence Fox agreed with Dr. Matthew Markos, the sole witness at the hearing, and ordered Vasilev to be moved from the Cook County jail into a secure mental health facility.

She will receive medication and other psychiatric treatment there in hopes of restoring mental fitness for trial within one year

http://www.dailyherald.com/story.asp?id=99785

I am sorry but I think this CRAZY CRAZY CRAZY. This woman should be punished and not spared. She stabbed her children in cold blood, why are people allowed to do this?? BECAUSE OUR SYSTEMS LETS THEM!!!!!! I am sorry but she should be tried and sent to prison and if there is the death pentaly then she shoud get that. This poor children were spared nothing, jsut take minute and close your eyes and live the horrot they lived.

I mean think about seeing your mother come at you with a knife and stab you again and again as you scream for help begging your mommy to please stop, I promise I will be good, no mommy I didn't mean too, please mommy I love you.

This is horrible and tif she wants to plead guilty then so be it let her do that.

 

[Jules]

Misty - that's kinda my thoughts on this too - let her plead and give her the needle. However, she must be certified competent to stand trial and as long as someone out there says she's not - they won't let her plead. IMO - they need to find a doc that says she knew what she was doing.

 

[MistyGirl]

Misty - that's kinda my thoughts on this too - let her plead and give her the needle. However, she must be certified competent to stand trial and as long as someone out there says she's not - they won't let her plead. IMO - they need to find a doc that says she knew what she was doing.

So frustarting, I wish that insanity plea was not a defense at all. As far as I am concerend why should it matter if your competent to stand trial no one checks to see if people are competent to be a parent's? Maybe if they did we would nto have children being murdered, abused, negliected, abandon etc. So why should it matter now if she is competent now....no one cared before. Oh that's rigth cause we are supposed to feel sorry fopr her because she is mentaly ill an ddoesn't understand. BULLS&%*...........she killed her children in cold blood.

 

[Jules]

As far as I am concerend why should it matter if your competent to stand trial no one checks to see if people are competent to be a parent's? Maybe if they did we would nto have children being murdered, abused, negliected, abandon etc.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[Bobbisangel]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Amen sister... :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: I can't even allow myself to visualize or think about what those two little kids went through. It is just to horrible. If this woman had had mental health issues for years why the heck was she having and being responsible for 3 children. Is this husband another husband that just closed his eyes and went about his business like Yates? If she had had mental health issues for years then I doubt that she lost it every 5 years. Was she on medication? Didn't anyone notice that she wasn't all there? Just makes me feel sick for all of these little ones.

We'll see how long this husband hangs in there. This woman should either be put in prison for life or a mental hospital for life. I doubt if this husband will be content to spend the rest of his life visiting her in prison once a week. If she has honestly had mental health issues for years then I think the hubsand should carry some of the responsibility for what happened.

 

[angelmom]

Is it just me, or do these cases of mothers murdering their children seem to accompany "religeon" far too often? WTF?

I do think that someone who is mentally ill and has these horrific impulses to hurt their own children, and who knows somewhere deep down inside that it is wrong and is really trying to fight it, will try anything.

This woman (and Andrea Yates and many others) had also been in and out of psychiatric care over a period of years, yet no one is blaming a mental institution for making her kill her kids. I think religion may be something they try to see if it will help them cope with the demons in their heads. Who knows how many people ARE helped (by medicine or therapy or faith or meditation or whatever)...but obviously some are so sick that nothing can stop them. At least, nothing yet.

Hopefully there will come a day when this type of mental illness can be identified and treated before innocent people become the victims.