IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #5

[marble]

So I am thinking the sirens might have prompted the gunshot timing.....

That or he may have still been alive and tried to radio in so they could find him when he heard the sirens but was too weak/lost consciousness before he was able to.

 

[night train]

Considering he is a very Laval worker I found this interesting from the start especially after Filenko made out like this area was central for all sorts of crimes recently.

Viciciondi said squatters once lurked in the wooded, swampy area by Precision Chrome but seemed to have moved on years ago. He’s at a loss for what the men were doing there when Gliniewicz saw them, particularly considering the early hour.

“It was just a weird time, too,” he said. “Even if you were doing something you weren’t supposed to be doing, you wouldn’t think at almost 8 o’clock you’d be doing it.”

No one with even half a brain "doing something you weren't supposed to be doing" at 8am or any other time is going to parade past those businesses on Honing. The cement plant site is a large area with abundant cover and multiple access points. I could pitch a tent in those woods and be there for days without Jimmy Viciciondi having a clue.

 

[cady]

Presumably the task force has scoured every inch of the cement plant site for any evidence of the three persons of interest. If they have evidence, they have not been forthcoming about it. JMO

 

[Chuz Life]

Hi all, I've been trying to use Steelman's Map to plot the Lt's most likely route - based on the comments and timeline from his radio traffic.

Please see the attached image to see what I have so far.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=82796&d=1444587949

Originally Posted by night train View Post
That's a really sharp curve in the road just past where Lt.JG's body was found.

True.

If they were approaching from the plant's open area,they wouldn't see each other until they were fairly close to each other.

I estimate about 1300-1400 feet.

Both them and Lt.Joe would then suddenly and almost simultaneously be in each other's line of sight.

True.

A 70 degree morning sitting in his patrol car since around 7:30 with the motor off sipping a long tall coffee when he and the trio become aware of each other's presence. Lt.Joe radios description, the trio stay calm, hoping the situation doesn't escalate. Lt.Joe exits his patrol car, sees they're going to flee, uses radio to initiate backup to start rolling.....

Only, he (the LT) didn't initiate the backup. The dispatcher did and the Lt was even hesitant for dispatch to send them.

If your theory was correct and according to the time line of the radio traffic, the LT was in his car, when the trio came into site walking towards him. And, according to the aerial maps, they would have been about 1300 to 1400 feet apart (min.) That's quite a distance for them to be apart on foot.

When I listen to what the LT said on the radio, there was three minutes between the time that the LT said he was going to be out of his vehicle and his next transmission that said they were going into the woods.

No sound of the LT running towards them to close that distance. Just a casual subdued tone with no urgency to send backup.

Aligning all this with your theory. . . What do you propose the suspects and the LT were actually doing for those three minutes?

 

[Walker007]

Makes you wonder if they could have fled this way and slipped somewhere into precision chrome area. Like the owner said, he was out for a sandwich. He would have missed them?

Also, I found it curious that someone called from the treatment plant. Anyone have any thoughts to that part?

 

[vestigare]

No one with even half a brain "doing something you weren't supposed to be doing" at 8am or any other time is going to parade past those businesses on Honing. The cement plant site is a large area with abundant cover and multiple access points. I could pitch a tent in those woods and be there for days without Jimmy Viciciondi having a clue.

But would the police also not have a clue and then would the pitcher of said tent not have a clue that Gliniewicz was taking that area as his personal responsibility on a weekly if not daily basis?
We only have few options here.
1) it was crime central and the police knew that and were doing something about it and in that case the local criminals would have gotten the clue and cleared out.
2) it was crime central and the police had no clue and neither did anyone in the area.
3) it wasn't crime central

 

[vestigare]

Makes you wonder if they could have fled this way and slipped somewhere into precision chrome area. Like the owner said, he was out for a sandwich. He would have missed them?

Also, I found it curious that someone called from the treatment plant. Anyone have any thoughts to that part?

[[/ATTACH]

Weren't people just calling in suspects so the police could check on them?
I imagine they had all sorts of calls that didn't amount to anything more than callers overreacting.

 

[vestigare]

Aligning all this with your theory. . . What do you propose the suspects and the LT were actually doing for those three minutes?

This is what I want the Task Force to at least give an educated guess on. What exactly do they think these three were doing that not only made Joe suspisious but lead to him giving chase, not waiting for backup but reluctantly agreeing to backup after the second call?

 

[Elley Mae]

Hope this ok I don't know how to carry post from previous thread.

This is for Cubby to answer from yesterday. Post 1050 from thread #4

You quoted my post with answer.


Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
Obviously. If someone was close enough to him to shoot him at close range they couldn't grab both the gun and the radio. The dispatcher should have heard something if lt. CG wasn't alone. The radio should have picked something up if there was a scuffle of some sort.



1bbm Obviously what?

2bbm Why?

3bbmWhy should the radio pick something up?

TIA

I would appreciate a response, if not please do not quote my post making it look like you agree, (w/the word obviously) then go on to state that I am wrong. TIA

 

[Tillicum]

But would the police also not have a clue and then would the pitcher of said tent not have a clue that Gliniewicz was taking that area as his personal responsibility on a weekly if not daily basis?
We only have few options here.
1) it was crime central and the police knew that and were doing something about it and in that case the local criminals would have gotten the clue and cleared out.
2) it was crime central and the police had no clue and neither did anyone in the area.
3) it wasn't crime central

How about #4?

4) It was crime central and the police knew that and were doing something about it and the non locals didn't have a clue.

 

[Chuz Life]

If Night Train's theory was correct and according to the time line of the radio traffic, the LT was in his car, when the trio came into site walking towards him. And, according to the aerial maps, they would have been about 1300 to 1400 feet apart (min.) That's quite a distance for them to be apart on foot.

When I listen to what the LT said on the radio, there was three minutes between the time that the LT said he was going to be out of his vehicle and his next transmission that said they were going into the woods.

No sound of the LT running towards them to close that distance. Just a casual subdued tone with no urgency to send backup.

Aligning all this with your theory. . . What do you propose the suspects and the LT were actually doing for those three minutes?

This is what I want the Task Force to at least give an educated guess on. What exactly do they think these three were doing that not only made Joe suspicious but lead to him giving chase, not waiting for backup but reluctantly agreeing to backup after the second call?

Same here!

Here again is the aerial map of what the Lt's field of vision likely was. If the trio entered his field of vision while rounding the bend on Honing, they would have had one heck of a head start on him, when they could see him exit his vehicle.

And they would not wait three minutes to then decide to go into the woods towards the swamp.

 

[vestigare]

How about #4?

4) It was crime central and the police knew that and were doing something about it and the non locals didn't have a clue.

Because how is it that the police are patrolling the area all the time as Filenko said Joe was doing and the locals have no clue that a cruiser is coming every single day to that spot and looking around?

I have no doubt this area probably had some graffiti artists and the odd kids drinking and maybe some plinking. But crime central. Nah that just doesn't make sense with the regular patrols by the LT.

 

[vestigare]

Same here!

Here again is the aerial map of what the Lt's field of vision likely was. If the trio entered his field of vision while rounding the bend on Honing, they would have had one heck of a head start on him, when they could see him exit his vehicle.

And they would not wait three minutes to then decide to go into the woods towards the swamp.

View attachment 82826

You know that is why when this story first broke I didn't think suicide. I thought here is a cop who might have gotten a little rough with one of the three who wasn't doing anything wrong (and who he didn't expect trouble from because the crime wasn't severe and he stumbled on them) and one thing led another and two of them decided enough with this and then the officer was shot in a fight over resisting arrest. Because the area just didn't make sense to me (I know that not all crimes make sense) that he got himself into that trouble in that way.


But as more evidence came out that theory went out the window.

 

[Walker007]

We know that DHS and FBI are involved. FBI, not surprising, they assist on many local investigations as they can offer more investigative resources, otherwise not available IE: The special equipment for reviewing video etc etc.. One example not to mention their profilers, experts and it goes on and on. The DHS involvement is the one that really catches my attention. There was a case that happened here in Texas that stunned the community due to the fact the drive-by shooting/assassination was in broad daylight, with shoppers everywhere in a very upscale area. It took awhile to solve and there was a lot of speculation. While this is different because this guy was an informant for DHS and an ex-cartel member. I have to wonder if there was a larger investigation being conducted by DHS? There has been chatter that this area could have been a drug hub. Was Lt. G assisting in their efforts? But you would expect DEA to be involved. Is he is a homicide victim based off of activities related to a DHS investigation into larger matters? If Federal conducting a larger scale investigation, they would typically need cooperation or assistance from the local authorties and have programs implemented for this. I think we need to consider reasons why DHS would be playing a larger role of involvement here. I wonder what the LT. specialty role was in the Army?

Here is the Texas case if anyone cares to read about it. Like Softail said, it could take a year to solve. This one also took a long time. Even though at the time they had plastered the surveillance video on the news and more etc..

"Guerrero also had been an informant for the U.S. government — specifically Homeland Security Investigations, or HSI, which is part of the Department of Homeland Security. It is unclear when he began his cooperation, whether HSI agents were fully aware of his activities while he lived in Texas, or if others may have learned of his role as a snitch."



http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Qu...Down-in-Southlake-Town-Square--256760781.html

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/crime/article3872534.html

 

[Chuz Life]

You know that is why when this story first broke I didn't think suicide. I thought here is a cop who might have gotten a little rough with one of the three who wasn't doing anything wrong (and who he didn't expect trouble from because the crime wasn't severe and he stumbled on them) and one thing led another and two of them decided enough with this and then the officer was shot in a fight over resisting arrest. Because the area just didn't make sense to me (I know that not all crimes make sense) that he got himself into that trouble in that way.


But as more evidence came out that theory went out the window.

I did not think it was suicide at first either.

But the more and closer I look at the evidence we have, there is little room for it to have been anything else.

Knowing that he was on the scene 20 minutes before telling dispatch that he was going to be out of his car and looking at that aerial of what his likely field of vision was from that location. . . It becomes increasingly difficult to imagine him seeing the trio as he described them and then a following pursuit that fits what we have listened too on the recorded audio.

The only thing that fits is what we all first thought happened. We all thought that he was driving along or just arriving on site and saw three males doing something where the LT didn't think they should be. He got out to investigate and they ran.

That would have been very believable if we had any evidence at all that shows the trio was there and if we did NOT have the information from his GPS that shows he was sitting there in his car for 20 Minutes before radioing in.

 

[night train]

But would the police also not have a clue and then would the pitcher of said tent not have a clue that Gliniewicz was taking that area as his personal responsibility on a weekly if not daily basis?
We only have few options here.
1) it was crime central and the police knew that and were doing something about it and in that case the local criminals would have gotten the clue and cleared out.
2) it was crime central and the police had no clue and neither did anyone in the area.
3) it wasn't crime central

4)Paradigm Shift: Fox Lake had quite recently purchased land at the site and in town meetings indicated that nefarious activity there needed attention.. a short time before Lt. J's death they requested that the PD establish patrols .I wouldn't assume criminals to be in synch.

 

[vestigare]

I did not think it was suicide at first either.

But the more and closer I look at the evidence we have, there is little room for it to have been anything else.

Knowing that he was on the scene 20 minutes before telling dispatch that he was going to be out of his car and looking at that aerial of what his likely field of vision was from that location. . . It becomes increasingly difficult to imagine him seeing the trio as he described them and then a following pursuit that fits what we have listened too on the recorded audio.

The only thing that fits is what we all first thought happened. We all thought that he was driving along or just arriving on site and saw three males doing something where the LT didn't think they should be. He got out to investigate and they ran.

That would have been very believable if we had any evidence at all that shows the trio was there and if we did NOT have the information from his GPS that shows he was sitting there in his car for 20 Minutes before radioing in.

Exactly. The more evidence they provide the more it points to suicide IMO. Add to that the US Marshal Fugitive Task being very vocal that they were leaving and well I have yet to see anything to change my mind back.

 

[vestigare]

4)Paradigm Shift: Fox Lake had quite recently purchased land at the site and in town meetings indicated that nefarious activity there needed attention.. a short time before Lt. J's death they requested that the PD establish patrols .I wouldn't assume criminals to be in synch.

You must not understand how fast the grape vine is with criminals.

What Filenko claims also tends not to always be the total truth. We have no evidence that there was criminal activity there recently. No arrests, no massive drug busts. And do we have evidence that Joe was actually assigned that area or is it just "he took on the responsibility himself" ????

In fact it would make more sense if there hadn't been the supposed recent criminal wave and if Joe hadn't taken it upon himself to patrol that area regularly that he might have seem something suspicious and something major was happening.

But now we know that didn't happen because he was there for so long previously.

 

[vestigare]

Something I also want to point out is that both Filenko and the mayor are very keen on the entire "Gang activity" in the town.
So I take everything they say with a grain of salt because those who are always pandering for federal dollars tend to overstate the exact nature of the problem in the area.
Filenko also speaks on gang activity and the mayor actually ran on the stance.

So they would naturally be claiming gang tagging and drug use and oh my god the sky is falling and Joe was being proactive to stop the spread and was killed because of it.

 

[Walker007]

I have added more the scanner thread. More to the original post to complete the 30 mins. And then an additional 30 minutes.