IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #54

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I believe he said in this county, not country. MOO
Oh. Good catch! (I actually read your response like three times before I cought the difference. I read 'country' each time.)

I'm going to go back and edit my post just to avoid spreading misinformation.

Thank you!

The above is just my opinion.
 
As for how did he overpower AW and LG's will to resist? 1. Fear by approaching without excuse. 2. A malevolent attitude.---The unfairness to the girls is magnified. Look at direct danger when you have no preparation. It is something no one expects to happen. A bad dream. Suddenness occurs. No time to think correctly. Every avenue of escape is thought of in a flash, and you can't decide which one. Obey? It is done. Buy time for getting away. Maybe the next step. Can't coordinate with each other. Fear gets worse, freezing thought, wait for the other. All the chances keep disappearing, and bobbing up three steps away Follow obey--Conjecture is they may have dashed away across the creek, their last chance. They get struck down just yards from one another. The perpetrator doesn't play.----These events are quicker than you can think them through. And if at the beginning if they choose the wrong way to flee, they are doomed. It is not easy as any say about being the prey. Most don't live. I hope this offended nobody's ego, nor cause any nightmares later on.
 
5. He had a partner who was hidden close by who helped.
6. He had a partner who played their 'savior' and grabbed them when they ran to him.
All MOO

I'm a sucky sleuther because these scenarios had seriously not occurred to me. [emoji55]
 
This is unusual for me. I'm all caught up and can't think of anything to say! Rather than just let people have a break, I decided to add some of my lists I use in case they might help spur someone else on to a theory of some kind.

First I have a list of people I think could be responsible (not names, just general types.)
1. RSO (obviously)
2. Young man/men who are sadistic and wanted to move on to the next step - from tormenting/killing animals and fighting weaker guys, assaulting girls, harassing people in general, etc. to actual murder.
3. Someone having a psychotic break (not likely, I think more evidence would have been left behind.)
4. Serial killer, experienced or beginning
5. Serial rapist who hasn't been caught before.
6. Someone with a personal grievance
7. Someone who was romantically interested in one of the girls (or a mother, sister, etc.) and was spurned.
8. Truck driver, for whatever reason
9. Drifter who tried to steal from them but lost control of the situation.
10. Just about anybody else

Next is a list of how he/they got control of the girls.
1. He used a gun or knife to threaten them.
2. He "ambushed" them as they exited the bridge.
3. He chased them and caught them or caught one and the other came back to help her.
4. He struck one putting her temporarily out of commission and grabbed the other, and got the other one up after the first one grabbed was restrained.
5. He had a partner who was hidden close by who helped.
6. He had a partner who played their 'savior' and grabbed them when they ran to him.
7. Any number of other ways.

Last one for now is how he got away unseen.
1. He had a car parked close by and cut through the wooded area to get to it.
2. He had a car parked at/by the cemetery and calmly drove away
3. He lives close by and walked home.
4. He works close by and he walked to work (second shift) when done.
5. He works close by and returned to work to get his car when done.
6. He stayed out of sight and joined the searchers when they started arriving.
7. He hid out in an out building on a near property until after dark.
8. He's smarter than I am and had another way.

Sorry if this is useless info, but it does help me to organize things in my mind if I write them down.
All MOO

I'd say pretty much anything is possible, at this point. This is what bothers me:

Initially, LE were skittish about attaching a serial killer scenario to this case. I grew up in a place where there were not just one, but two (the 2nd one was never brought to justice) serial killers (SK's) working a part of the city. The SK that was caught literally talked with undercover cops who were working the red light district during the period of time said SK was murdering women, there, and they (LE) didn't have a clue it was him. LE were reluctant to admit that a SK was working the neighborhood/city. This is not a criticism of LE on my end, per se, but often times what they say publicly can be very much political in nature, they just don't know (no fault of theirs) what evil it is they're dealing with, nor how to deal with it.

Hence, MOO is the perp in this case chose Delphi, IN, for his killing ground, he knew that he could slip in and out, relatively undetected. How did he or they know this? Simple Google searches would have revealed the park and the area around it, and they may have made a trip or three to the scene to recon it. Locals didn't even know it was there, until the murders happened, which is typical of old, abandoned RR and industrial properties. I've met folks in cities who had no idea there were beautiful parks located nearby, and they had lived there all of their lives (I'm a hiker). It's just human nature, sometimes.

Since joining WS, and since I've become more aware of how these creeps sometimes operate (because of the great work here by members, admins, etc.), my knowledge regarding captured SK's, and their MO's, has grown quite a bit. It's a lot more complex than people think, they are predators, off-the-charts predators in some cases. I think I remember the Israel Keyes case from several years ago, but living in Rochester, NY, mere hours' drive from where he had a property, in a part of desolate NY State I am familiar with, we never heard much about it. I may have gotten some bits from the national news? I don't remember, really, and it was only 5 years ago he was caught. Reading about that case can be frightening, but fascinating at the same time (more on that, below).

See my point? A creep like the one in question, in this case, is banking on people not paying attention. A small community like Delphi to prey on, and to slip in and out of, undetected. He's outsmarted the FBI, thus far.

Early on, I was struck by how so many members were convinced this was a "drifter", just some poor slob riding the rails or hitch hiking, or homeless, or whatever. I had to hold back on my incredulity, and I don't want to come across as bashing other members. The perp, or perps, is/are more sophisticated than we think. It's been 2.5 months since the murders, and many weeks since the last PC, and still nothing released to the public with regards to who may have committed these crimes.

MOO is the perp or perps may or may not have used social media (SM) to target some girls that day, but I do know that once they were within sight (either good eyesight, or with binoculars), the Monon High Bridge, he or they waited until the 'right' demographic of victim(s) crossed the bridge. That's the MO I'm going on. They also had to have known the local schools had the day off, the district was burning a snow day, and it just happened to be a mild day here in the North. They had to know that the creek is shallow in just that one spot. All details a SK would have known, beforehand.

Also what they were banking on, it's about a 7 minute walk to the bridge from (what was) the parking area. Takes about 4 minutes to walk across the bridge, with a fair amount of guts and determination, considering the height and the condition of it, which is poor. The walk from the SE end of the bridge to the CS (600 feet, give or take), and other factors. In, out, done deal. It was over in a matter of minutes, which is the truly frightening aspect of this whole case, besides the actual murders, and I think that's part of what spooked LE from early on.

JMO

I hope and pray for justice, soon, for these two girls.
 
As for how did he overpower AW and LG's will to resist? 1. Fear by approaching without excuse. 2. A malevolent attitude.---The unfairness to the girls is magnified. Look at direct danger when you have no preparation. It is something no one expects to happen. A bad dream. Suddenness occurs. No time to think correctly. Every avenue of escape is thought of in a flash, and you can't decide which one. Obey? It is done. Buy time for getting away. Maybe the next step. Can't coordinate with each other. Fear gets worse, freezing thought, wait for the other. All the chances keep disappearing, and bobbing up three steps away Follow obey--Conjecture is they may have dashed away across the creek, their last chance. They get struck down just yards from one another. The perpetrator doesn't play.----These events are quicker than you can think them through. And if at the beginning if they choose the wrong way to flee, they are doomed. It is not easy as any say about being the prey. Most don't live. I hope this offended nobody's ego, nor cause any nightmares later on.

Good analysis, and I have to agree. The perp crossed that bridge on a mission.

Threads ago, some theorized that the perp would not have crossed the creek because of the temperature of the water, on that day. Give me a break. It's shallow in that one spot, and a perp doesn't give a wit about a little water, in fact I'd venture to guess BG is a fisherman or even a fly fisherman, outdoorsman, etc.

The perp was bent on murder, that day. MOO is they were wearing long johns and perhaps even other clothing to protect them from the elements.

JMO
 
This is unbelievable. We have photos and even a snippet of an audio. We have a timeline, of a sort. And their bodies were recovered very quickly, so one would think LE has the approximate time of death and cause of death. Copious amounts of LE manpower and tips and nationwide - even worldwide attention. Yet here we are on thread #54 and no arrest. The only thing keeping me from being more discouraged is LE has additional info that can lead them to the killer and maybe they are just putting together the pieces on a possible identified person.

^^^^This.
 
Thanks for that reassurance!

I don't think I have the fortitude to do that research or even read about what others find. I am such an effin baby. [emoji47]

The above is just my opinion.

Oh hun yvw , and I almost don't have the Gaul myself, but like a cat curiosity will get the best of me.but your no baby, imo always it just makes you a good hearted person.
 
I'm a sucky sleuther because these scenarios had seriously not occurred to me. [emoji55]

Your not sucky! That's what this is for, for us to share ideas on behalf of our girls and the fact that you're even here, it's big, because it shows you care. And caring is the most important part imo.😘
 
I'd say pretty much anything is possible, at this point. This is what bothers me:

Initially, LE were skittish about attaching a serial killer scenario to this case. I grew up in a place where there were not just one, but two (the 2nd one was never brought to justice) serial killers (SK's) working a part of the city. The SK that was caught literally talked with undercover cops who were working the red light district during the period of time said SK was murdering women, there, and they (LE) didn't have a clue it was him. LE were reluctant to admit that a SK was working the neighborhood/city. This is not a criticism of LE on my end, per se, but often times what they say publicly can be very much political in nature, they just don't know (no fault of theirs) what evil it is they're dealing with, nor how to deal with it.

Hence, MOO is the perp in this case chose Delphi, IN, for his killing ground, he knew that he could slip in and out, relatively undetected. How did he or they know this? Simple Google searches would have revealed the park and the area around it, and they may have made a trip or three to the scene to recon it. Locals didn't even know it was there, until the murders happened, which is typical of old, abandoned RR and industrial properties. I've met folks in cities who had no idea there were beautiful parks located nearby, and they had lived there all of their lives (I'm a hiker). It's just human nature, sometimes.

Since joining WS, and since I've become more aware of how these creeps sometimes operate (because of the great work here by members, admins, etc.), my knowledge regarding captured SK's, and their MO's, has grown quite a bit. It's a lot more complex than people think, they are predators, off-the-charts predators in some cases. I think I remember the Israel Keyes case from several years ago, but living in Rochester, NY, mere hours' drive from where he had a property, in a part of desolate NY State I am familiar with, we never heard much about it. I may have gotten some bits from the national news? I don't remember, really, and it was only 5 years ago he was caught. Reading about that case can be frightening, but fascinating at the same time (more on that, below).

See my point? A creep like the one in question, in this case, is banking on people not paying attention. A small community like Delphi to prey on, and to slip in and out of, undetected. He's outsmarted the FBI, thus far.

Early on, I was struck by how so many members were convinced this was a "drifter", just some poor slob riding the rails or hitch hiking, or homeless, or whatever. I had to hold back on my incredulity, and I don't want to come across as bashing other members. The perp, or perps, is/are more sophisticated than we think. It's been 2.5 months since the murders, and many weeks since the last PC, and still nothing released to the public with regards to who may have committed these crimes.

MOO is the perp or perps may or may not have used social media (SM) to target some girls that day, but I do know that once they were within sight (either good eyesight, or with binoculars), the Monon High Bridge, he or they waited until the 'right' demographic of victim(s) crossed the bridge. That's the MO I'm going on. They also had to have known the local schools had the day off, the district was burning a snow day, and it just happened to be a mild day here in the North. They had to know that the creek is shallow in just that one spot. All details a SK would have known, beforehand.

Also what they were banking on, it's about a 7 minute walk to the bridge from (what was) the parking area. Takes about 4 minutes to walk across the bridge, with a fair amount of guts and determination, considering the height and the condition of it, which is poor. The walk from the SE end of the bridge to the CS (600 feet, give or take), and other factors. In, out, done deal. It was over in a matter of minutes, which is the truly frightening aspect of this whole case, besides the actual murders, and I think that's part of what spooked LE from early on.

JMO

I hope and pray for justice, soon, for these two girls.

Okay, same wavelength. LE is sitting on a dark and scary secret. They want people focus on the perp. No need for the public to know lewd and lascivious events nor blood and guts. It will not serve their investigation. I know it is frustrating to hear nothing about death and the way it was delivered, not the 'escapade' of the killer, but it does no good to tell the public. LE fears for their own community, their families and loved ones. Surely because they have a heart to serve us, it is in our better interest not to hear all they know. I want a bad thing in my own curiosity, a compelling thing to excite my imagination. Honestly it is no good to do so.
 
Oh hun yvw , and I almost don't have the Gaul myself, but like a cat curiosity will get the best of me.but your no baby, imo always it just makes you a good hearted person.
This is so sweet. [emoji8] [emoji8]
 
Your not sucky! That's what this is for, for us to share ideas on behalf of our girls and the fact that you're even here, it's big, because it shows you care. And caring is the most important part imo.😘
Hey I just blew you a kiss in the other response!

I guess I am constantly amazed by the ideas I find and talent I see in this group. It's truly a gold mine. So grateful I found it...you all sharpen my thinking skills. Gratitude!
 
I'd say pretty much anything is possible, at this point. This is what bothers me:

Initially, LE were skittish about attaching a serial killer scenario to this case. I grew up in a place where there were not just one, but two (the 2nd one was never brought to justice) serial killers (SK's) working a part of the city. The SK that was caught literally talked with undercover cops who were working the red light district during the period of time said SK was murdering women, there, and they (LE) didn't have a clue it was him. LE were reluctant to admit that a SK was working the neighborhood/city. This is not a criticism of LE on my end, per se, but often times what they say publicly can be very much political in nature, they just don't know (no fault of theirs) what evil it is they're dealing with, nor how to deal with it.

Hence, MOO is the perp in this case chose Delphi, IN, for his killing ground, he knew that he could slip in and out, relatively undetected. How did he or they know this? Simple Google searches would have revealed the park and the area around it, and they may have made a trip or three to the scene to recon it. Locals didn't even know it was there, until the murders happened, which is typical of old, abandoned RR and industrial properties. I've met folks in cities who had no idea there were beautiful parks located nearby, and they had lived there all of their lives (I'm a hiker). It's just human nature, sometimes.

Since joining WS, and since I've become more aware of how these creeps sometimes operate (because of the great work here by members, admins, etc.), my knowledge regarding captured SK's, and their MO's, has grown quite a bit. It's a lot more complex than people think, they are predators, off-the-charts predators in some cases. I think I remember the Israel Keyes case from several years ago, but living in Rochester, NY, mere hours' drive from where he had a property, in a part of desolate NY State I am familiar with, we never heard much about it. I may have gotten some bits from the national news? I don't remember, really, and it was only 5 years ago he was caught. Reading about that case can be frightening, but fascinating at the same time (more on that, below).

See my point? A creep like the one in question, in this case, is banking on people not paying attention. A small community like Delphi to prey on, and to slip in and out of, undetected. He's outsmarted the FBI, thus far.

Early on, I was struck by how so many members were convinced this was a "drifter", just some poor slob riding the rails or hitch hiking, or homeless, or whatever. I had to hold back on my incredulity, and I don't want to come across as bashing other members. The perp, or perps, is/are more sophisticated than we think. It's been 2.5 months since the murders, and many weeks since the last PC, and still nothing released to the public with regards to who may have committed these crimes.

MOO is the perp or perps may or may not have used social media (SM) to target some girls that day, but I do know that once they were within sight (either good eyesight, or with binoculars), the Monon High Bridge, he or they waited until the 'right' demographic of victim(s) crossed the bridge. That's the MO I'm going on. They also had to have known the local schools had the day off, the district was burning a snow day, and it just happened to be a mild day here in the North. They had to know that the creek is shallow in just that one spot. All details a SK would have known, beforehand.

Also what they were banking on, it's about a 7 minute walk to the bridge from (what was) the parking area. Takes about 4 minutes to walk across the bridge, with a fair amount of guts and determination, considering the height and the condition of it, which is poor. The walk from the SE end of the bridge to the CS (600 feet, give or take), and other factors. In, out, done deal. It was over in a matter of minutes, which is the truly frightening aspect of this whole case, besides the actual murders, and I think that's part of what spooked LE from early on.

JMO

I hope and pray for justice, soon, for these two girls.

The community was preyed upon unawares and taken by surprise. LE was very careful in their release of info. This website is also a community that is top-notch, but needs to be made aware, I get the feeling, that any perp can read without commenting here, enough to 'earn his own glory'. All I am asking is for us here to realize these comments are trolled by the perps of crime, and to be careful not to feed the ego of the killer by too much presumption. He can revel in our stupidity (to him it is all laughable) or get scared by supposed discovery. Think therefore that no insulation protects you in this virtual world if you slip up.
 
The community was preyed upon unawares and taken by surprise. LE was very careful in their release of info. This website is also a community that is top-notch, but needs to be made aware, I get the feeling, that any perp can read without commenting here, enough to 'earn his own glory'. All I am asking is for us here to realize these comments are trolled by the perps of crime, and to be careful not to feed the ego of the killer by too much presumption. He can revel in our stupidity (to him it is all laughable) or get scared by supposed discovery. Think therefore that no insulation protects you in this virtual world if you slip up.

Hi idareyato.

We have actually had killers posting here right with us...as well as LE, 'famous' lawyers, etc...We're here to sleuth and bounce ideas off each other in hopes of being a small part of getting justice for 2 innocent young girls that were senselessly murdered.

I understand what you're saying about the killer's 'ego' but I really don't care if he reads here and gets off on what we're saying. Wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last. IMO, you're giving him too much credit..and perhaps that is ego inflating in and of itself.

He will be caught and put under the jail for eternity.
 
I've continued to follow, but have taken a step back from commenting much...I simply don't feel that I have anything new, helpful or insightful to add. But I so want us to get justice for these girls (and all crime victims). "Optimism isn't high" is still really eating at me..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Okay, same wavelength. LE is sitting on a dark and scary secret. They want people focus on the perp. No need for the public to know lewd and lascivious events nor blood and guts. It will not serve their investigation. I know it is frustrating to hear nothing about death and the way it was delivered, not the 'escapade' of the killer, but it does no good to tell the public. LE fears for their own community, their families and loved ones. Surely because they have a heart to serve us, it is in our better interest not to hear all they know. I want a bad thing in my own curiosity, a compelling thing to excite my imagination. Honestly it is no good to do so.

MOO is they also fear for RL's safety, among many other innocent people within the local community.

JMO
 
Does anyone remember a newscast early on where the neighbor across the creek from RL spoke to a reporter? It was a woman who was at the end of the private drive who was not at home during the time of abduction.
 
The community was preyed upon unawares and taken by surprise. LE was very careful in their release of info. This website is also a community that is top-notch, but needs to be made aware, I get the feeling, that any perp can read without commenting here, enough to 'earn his own glory'. All I am asking is for us here to realize these comments are trolled by the perps of crime, and to be careful not to feed the ego of the killer by too much presumption. He can revel in our stupidity (to him it is all laughable) or get scared by supposed discovery. Think therefore that no insulation protects you in this virtual world if you slip up.

Oh, I hope he is reading here. Anyone smarter than him will detect his mistakes. And anyone smarter than him will roll on him. It's coming from both ends.

All IMO

-Nin
 
The community was preyed upon unawares and taken by surprise. LE was very careful in their release of info. This website is also a community that is top-notch, but needs to be made aware, I get the feeling, that any perp can read without commenting here, enough to 'earn his own glory'. All I am asking is for us here to realize these comments are trolled by the perps of crime, and to be careful not to feed the ego of the killer by too much presumption. He can revel in our stupidity (to him it is all laughable) or get scared by supposed discovery. Think therefore that no insulation protects you in this virtual world if you slip up.

Tell ya what, I work off the assumption that the killer is here, among us, Either as a non-member, or as a member.

Sad state of affairs, but it fits in with my pseudo-profile of the perp of perps. He or they were banking on complete surprise, and lack of detection. A well-planned execution of the crime, really, sad as it may seem.

I alluded to it in posts I made above, he or they were banking on certain variables to align, on that day, and these poor girls found themselves in the cross hairs. It's the terror aspect of the crime(s) they get off on, I'm convinced of it. The crimes themselves are one thing, it's the terror and media attention they also get off on, which sickens me. The fact that this sicko got away with it, and has gotten off of it for two plus months. Just one more reason why I'm drawn to this case.

Whoever it is will strike, again.
 
Hi idareyato.

We have actually had killers posting here right with us...as well as LE, 'famous' lawyers, etc...We're here to sleuth and bounce ideas off each other in hopes of being a small part of getting justice for 2 innocent young girls that were senselessly murdered.

I understand what you're saying about the killer's 'ego' but I really don't care if he reads here and gets off on what we're saying. Wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last. IMO, you're giving him too much credit..and perhaps that is ego inflating in and of itself.

He will be caught and put under the jail for eternity.

Yep i too believe most perps read here. WS shows up on just about any search engine when googling a story . Id like to personally invite BG to come for supper, whats your favorite dish? LmK and I'll get right to cookin
 
Does anyone remember a newscast early on where the neighbor across the creek from RL spoke to a reporter? It was a woman who was at the end of the private drive who was not at home during the time of abduction.

I don't, but I'm curious about the interview. I'm curious about the property at the end of the drive, and whether or not the perp or perps knew anyone was home.
 
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