IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #74

[Shiressleuth]

Maybe he had different hatchets for different things? or hatchets of different weight for different things. If he was homeless he may have felt it was a two in one tool and weapon against being robbed.

He may have been into less common things like hatchet throwing. (I think that's what it's called). Where you basically throw the hatchet and try and grab it into the tree or target, much like knife throwing or darts. Having more than one would simply make a hobby like this easier because you would be able to toss two or three before having to go collect them and start again (like darts).

He may have had several because they were homeless and he didn't have easy access to a grinder or a grinding stone to keep the blades sharp. Use a hatchet until its dull, use the next one, use the next one, then when all are dull bring them to a friends or a shop with a grinder and sharpen the blades.

Lots of things will dull blades faster then others, like clearing a camp site to set up a tent, cutting meat if they had hunted and weren't using knives, and so on. Think about how fast scissors go useless when you cut paper with them.

When travelling light you wouldn't have the RIGHT tool for every job, but you may have a tool like a hatchet, that helps you to perform many jobs. For instance, I've never used a hatchet to cut wood, but I have used one to bang in tent posts while camping with the blunt end, I've never thought to bring a hammer camping but a hatchet can be used for anything from clearing brush and creating a trail for going to the washroom, to helping dig up dense earth to bury waste, to cutting wood for camp fires or even making sticks for marshmallows.

Clearly DN has used his for other reasons, but if he really was living this way, having a bunch would be akin to why 4 people own 8 steak knives and how they all get used!

JMO

Your post got me thinking about the sharpening and grinding and whether that could hide any unique marks on the blade to prevent it's identification as a weapon.
TY for your other thoughts here too.

 

[margarita25]

Your post got me thinking about the sharpening and grinding and whether that could hide any unique marks on the blade to prevent it's identification as a weapon.
TY for your other thoughts here too.

Imo forensic tool mark experts are pretty good these days, al though I have seen older cases where manipulation has thrown off ballistics.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Shiressleuth, I've been thinking more about this bong thing since you asked me how do i really know he wasnt carrying a bong around....

FTR bongs use water and he was by the creek.

And maybe he liked his bong and liked to conserve weed as mentioned. They are expensive and would be hard to part with so if his old lady gave him the boot, well maybe he grabbed his bong.

Do I really think he carried it around? Unlikely but if he had a duffle, was smoking by the creek, saw the girls, knew what he was going to do and knew not to leave it there for fingerprints. Etc...

I am exploring all theories brought forward. That's why we are here.

Do I think he was carrying around a bong? No but I've decided I don't know anything anymore.

Do you think the white thing at BG's neck area could be tubing to attach to a bong? For smoking?

 

[margarita25]

JMO
Could the multiple hatchets be telling us something. A hatchet is a very sturdy tool that does not normally break. So if his wife has said he had multiple hatchets then why is that? Why does he keep getting rid of them and having to get new ones?

Could this be a sign he is getting rid of evidence. Or is he just losing them or maybe leaving them on purpose.

It just seems very odd to me. I have a small hatchet that I have had for about 20 years. They dont break usually.
And when they are dull you just sharpen them.

(FTR, I especially listen when Hafield talks...she knows about guns, drones...)

 

[margarita25]

Do you think the white thing at BG's neck area could be tubing to attach to a bong? For smoking?

I don't, moo. IMO a predator has more important things to carry around...IMO if he's smoking he has a pipe or joints. IMO the white is some kind or restraint, zip ties or more than likely rope. This is my opinion.

 

[newredtabby]

Imo forensic tool mark experts are pretty good these days, al though I have seen older cases where manipulation has thrown off ballistics.

If a hatchet was sharpened by grinding it would indeed throw off ballistcs. The material is actually removed, so there would be nothing left to compare known marks to.


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[mtnlites]

I don't, moo. IMO a predator has more important things to carry around...IMO if he's smoking he has a pipe or joints. IMO the white is some kind or restraint, zip ties or more than likely rope. This is my opinion.

Just as another thought...In my experience, people who use bongs and similar things are not people who are, in the middle of smoking, going to stop and cold-heartedly kill 2 girls and then easily cover up their crimes. I mean, bong water is a depressant, not a stimulant. When I have smoked, and when the people I've been around have smoked, we always end up feeling laid back and easygoing. That's why we do it! I have a difficult time seeing someone using this committing these murders. Meth, cocaine, heroin to an extent-yes. Marijuana, bong, a benzo...no.

Just going by what I have seen and felt in my own personal experience.

 

[Sleuthin' n TX]

Seems like basic logic...

Now this, combined with the previous documented "hatchet" account(s) in Indiana.

And ownership of more than one axe when he came here to CO..

But he only had them in Colorado...


Fish....?

Here is a link of a pic comparative between an axe and a hatchet, which are very different:

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...ved=0ahUKEwi6lcbVh77XAhWEx4MKHTp0A9sQ9QEIKjAA

This is relative because it has never been stated that he had more than one axe.

 

[Area52]

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...-shot-arrested-link-to-indiana-murders-probed

Ok. Hope I did this correctly. From the Denver Channel and states menacing was reported in late August.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Just as another thought...In my experience, people who use bongs and similar things are not people who are, in the middle of smoking, going to stop and cold-heartedly kill 2 girls and then easily cover up their crimes. I mean, bong water is a depressant, not a stimulant. When I have smoked, and when the people I've been around have smoked, we always end up feeling laid back and easygoing. That's why we do it! I have a difficult time seeing someone using this committing these murders. Meth, cocaine, heroin to an extent-yes. Marijuana, bong, a benzo...no.

Just going by what I have seen and felt in my own personal experience.

I too have a hard time seeing a marijuana user threatening people with a hatchet and breaking their wife's nose or choking them in front of their child. However, it happens, and it can cause paranoid schizophrenia in some young men also, I believe, so it is a known problem AFAICT.

 

[mtnlites]

I too have a hard time seeing a marijuana user threatening people with a hatchet and breaking their wife's nose or choking them in front of their child. However, it happens, and it can cause paranoid schizophrenia in some young men also, I believe, so it is a known problem AFAICT.

With this issue, you are going to find studies that point to both. I was simply sharing my opinion and personal experience, as I stated in my post.

 

[Shiressleuth]

With this issue, you are going to find studies that point to both. I was simply sharing my opinion and personal experience, as I stated in my post.

Of course, as was I. I googled the link between marijuana and physchosis and there are loads of studies. I have several personal examples from my life also-luckily those persons have not harmed anyone as they are on lifetime medication. The more regular use doubles the susceptibility in adolescence especially.

 

[Jo in Calif]

I know they are still encouraging tips but what else are LE doing?

Probably their jobs.
Not trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.
IMO.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Probably their jobs.
Not trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.
IMO.

What do you mean by that? I meant what are they doing about the case specifically. It's a valid question. After all 6 young girls dead in the last twelve months and no arrests on the horizon.
They must have checked out the 6k tips since July, by now, surely.

 

[Jo in Calif]

What do you mean by that? I meant what are they doing about the case specifically. It's a valid question. After all 6 young girls dead in the last twelve months and no arrests on the horizon.
They must have checked out the 6k tips since July, by now, surely.

Well since LE doesn't go on social media and post their minute to minute investigating of a case I pretty much assume they are doing their jobs and investigating these cases, specifically Libby and Abby. People need to cut them some slack, they are doing their jobs, investigating the case.

 

[kizzykat]

Quite a coincidence that TW was murdered the same day DN's stepbrothers killer was sentenced to jail. That's a fairly significant event to be overlooked.

It hasn't been overlooked on this thread. We have brought it up previously. I asked if posters thought he may have been at court that day and it was opinion he would not have wanted to go near a court. What do you think about it? I think he was mad about the lenient sentence (16 years) and had a road rage incident with the cyclist on the way back from court. JMO of course.

Yes, we had discussed this, it was my opinion DN wouldn't go near a courthouse but KN might. But you just reminded me of something I found creating an alternate scenario of how they learned the news quickly, without visiting the courthouse. Via Lance Benzel's Twitter. He's a reporter w/the Gazette. Part of his Twitter signature: Live from the trenches in the El Paso County courts. He regularly tweets breaking court news & scrolling back through his feed, he did that at 1:56 PM on 9/14 (screenshot below). So DN/KN could've remained up in Mt Herman area, saw the tweet & it sent DN into one of his rages.
And I wonder if KN knew something bad happened that particular day because of a comment in the youtube video.

11:25 mark:
Interviewer: The day that that picture was taken of him alone in that car, that was the day he supposedly threatened someone with a hatchet, correct? That's one of the people that took that picture of him? Supposedly?
KN: Uh, probably later on in the day, yeah
Interviewer: Ok, do you know what day that was taken or when they said it was taken?
KN: I don't know
(KN begins speaking of not knowing what day it was up there, sometimes she had to ask, her days ran together, DN kept phone and keys, etc.)

First, interviewer is incorrect that a menacing victim took the photo. The picture was taken by a friend searching for Tim Watkins, who went missing in that area on Sept. 14 and was found dead a few days later.
The friend said he thought it was strange that the car, sporting Indiana plates, drove by the search group more than once. http://www.kktv.com/content/news/2-people-447798983.html

So if KN didn't know what day the picture was taken, then how did she know it was "probably later on in the day"? If her days ran together then which day could she be referring to? Learning court news on 9/14 would've been a day that stood out to her. DN is prone to wielding his hatchet in fits of rage. Remember, she was erroneously asked about a pic taken by a menacing victim, but she wasn't in the car at the time so wouldn't know who took the pic. Did DN go into a full blown rage and take off in the car? And she mistakenly assumed the picture was taken by someone on the receiving end of that rage? And that it probably occurred "later on in the day" of 9/14 because of the news that afternoon? (And maybe other bad things happened that day, perhaps involving TW, which would make it even more of a standout day in her memory. IF it involved TW and IF she knew of it.) MOO

https://twitter.com/lancebenzel
http://gazette.com/author/lance-benzel/1

 

[kstephens98]

What do you mean by that? I meant what are they doing about the case specifically. It's a valid question. After all 6 young girls dead in the last twelve months and no arrests on the horizon.
They must have checked out the 6k tips since July, by now, surely.

They are probably continuing to search for clues and evidence that will lead them to the killer. As with the thousands of other unsolved cases that grow cold, it will probably take a confession, or tip, or an unknown break, or an advance in investigative technology to find the perpetrator(s). Unfortunately people can and do get away with murder despite LE best efforts. I truly hope the girls receive justice, but the reality is that they may not.

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[Shiressleuth]

Well since LE doesn't go on social media and post their minute to minute investigating of a case I pretty much assume they are doing their jobs and investigating these cases, specifically Libby and Abby. People need to cut them some slack, they are doing their jobs, investigating the case.

Yes but how exactly? The people of Carroll and surrounding counties deserve to know the status of the investigation. LE don't mind using social media to criticise the public and ask for their help . It's a two way street and they have had 12 months of slack here already. Have they at least reduced the number of POI's, checked all available cctv's , traffic cams, voice analysis etc? Hopefully the local community representatives are getting updates of some sort from LE.

 

[Boxer]

What do you mean by that? I meant what are they doing about the case specifically. It's a valid question. After all 6 young girls dead in the last twelve months and no arrests on the horizon.
They must have checked out the 6k tips since July, by now, surely.

He doesn't fit their DNA sample and that is clear.
But that not matching thier sample is not enough to give him the same exclusion statement as RL is why he is still being considered here.

 

[kkdj]

He doesn't fit their DNA sample and that is clear.
But that not matching thier sample is not enough to give him the same exclusion statement as RL is why he is still being considered here.

Have LE stated that his (DN) DNA is not a match?