IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #13

[bessie]

To long time sleuthers,
have you ever seen a case where LE (or possibly PIs working to assist LE's efforts) have used the internet to gather clues?

Yes, in RL.

But here's a course offered to LE investigators:

"Social Networking Sites: Investigative Tools and Techniques"
http://www.search.org/programs/hightech/courses/snsi/

 

[dodie20]

To long time sleuthers,
have you ever seen a case where LE (or possibly PIs working to assist LE's efforts) have used the internet to gather clues?

I see it all of the time. One of the 1st things LE does is go through computers, myspace, facebook, etc...also, I've seen, (especially in cold cases), investigators get information from message boards. Some members are like walking encyclopedias...they save information, articles, dates, pictures, quotes, etc...and keep everything filed. I semi keep up with a cold case, where a board poster was recently given credit for finding something not before seen in a crime scene photo. IDK for sure, but I'd think just about any foul play type of investigation, would have somebody keeping up with the internet.

 

[cluciano63]

Even more so with this age group, IMO, would LE be likely to be using lots of internet data, social media, etc...

 

[Jupiter812]

I find this comment almost unbelievable. Reality check: HT was just the roommate of LS and had nothing to do with her disappearance. She was not with her that night. Where did you see an accusatory tone made by her as "LS deserves what she got. It's her fault" as you wrote above ? She never said or implied anything like that. You should retract that erroneous comment.

The real POIs are people who were with her or who may be implicated otherwise. But to focus on her roommate and attack her and target her is in my opinion very wrong. JMO.

It's absolutely your prerogative to show up any time there is neg on HT, British. You are to be commended for that. You may have missed the part in my original message where I said "My quotes". I removed the quotation marks to be clearer. I will not retract my comment.

 

[Berk13]

Here's a question I keep coming back to: why would LS call DR at 4:15 a.m.? We've heard it was because she was looking for her phone, but that just doesn't make sense to me. If you've lost your cell phone and want to find it, the logical thing would be to call your own cell phone and see if someone answers it, then ask how you can get it back from them.

If she wanted to go home, why wouldn't she call HT to say something along the lines of, "Hey, I lost my keys, can you meet me at the front door and let me into Smallwood?" Or if she really was calling DR, wouldn't she be asking him a similar question - "can you help me get home, meet me at the door to Smallwood, etc." NOT, "do you have my phone".

The phone call still doesn't make any sense to me and I think that's why I continue to be suspicious of JR in this entire thing. I don't believe Lauren really made that call. Also, I can see where a guy might not want to walk his friend home at 4:30 a.m....not that it's okay, but I am not all that surprised by it. But knowing she had no shoes, no cell phone, no purse, and no keys, it seems extremely odd that he would just let her walk away and not at least give her some flip flops or something to wear on her feet. Or at least call a cab?? I know her apartment is just a few blocks away from his, but if he was truly concerned at all he could've given her $5 and called a cab. The cab company is right down the street (6th & Morton, I believe). It would have taken two minutes for a cab to get there and pick her up.

I know all of this has been mentioned on here a lot, but that phone call and some of these other details are really bugging me. This is all just my opinion, of course.

 

[elmomom]

I see it all of the time. One of the 1st things LE does is go through computers, myspace, facebook, etc...also, I've seen, (especially in cold cases), investigators get information from message boards. Some members are like walking encyclopedias...they save information, articles, dates, pictures, quotes, etc...and keep everything filed. I semi keep up with a cold case, where a board poster was recently given credit for finding something not before seen in a crime scene photo. IDK for sure, but I'd think just about any foul play type of investigation, would have somebody keeping up with the internet.

Ok, but I mean a more active use of the net. Like creating a false identity, posting comments to incite others to do so, publishing a fake website, trapping IP adresses, etc.

 

[holly2325]

I think tier 2 means people that knew LS but where not with her that night. But the article also states the "primary" (people with LS that night) may need to be re interviewed.
So it is possible those interviews never happened.MR.Voyle made the statement early on about hoping the police followed leads he and his client provided.So I guess he is working very hard to get the police to focus their investigation some where other than his client.I do not know if the police are buying it.

Hi Phantom
That was CR atty Saltzmann who said this . Voyle. has only made one public statement on behalf of JR and that was Monday.

 

[Jupiter812]

Ok, but I mean a more active use of the net. Like creating a false identity, posting comments to incite others to do so, publishing a fake website, trapping IP adresses, etc.

I would think so, for sure. I've assumed there is one, especially on PT. S/he's probably here, there and everywhere. Hope so.

 

[dodie20]

Ok, but I mean a more active use of the net. Like creating a false identity, posting comments to incite others to do so, publishing a fake website, trapping IP adresses, etc.

maybe, but they probably wouldn't ever admit it and blow their cover or future cover. kind of like undercover drug cops or cops who pose as prostitutes.

 

[Jupiter812]

Here's a question I keep coming back to: why would LS call DR at 4:15 a.m.? We've heard it was because she was looking for her phone, but that just doesn't make sense to me. If you've lost your cell phone and want to find it, the logical thing would be to call your own cell phone and see if someone answers it, then ask how you can get it back from them.

If she wanted to go home, why wouldn't she call HT to say something along the lines of, "Hey, I lost my keys, can you meet me at the front door and let me into Smallwood?" Or if she really was calling DR, wouldn't she be asking him a similar question - "can you help me get home, meet me at the door to Smallwood, etc." NOT, "do you have my phone".

The phone call still doesn't make any sense to me and I think that's why I continue to be suspicious of JR in this entire thing. I don't believe Lauren really made that call. Also, I can see where a guy might not want to walk his friend home at 4:30 a.m....not that it's okay, but I am not all that surprised by it. But knowing she had no shoes, no cell phone, no purse, and no keys, it seems extremely odd that he would just let her walk away and not at least give her some flip flops or something to wear on her feet. Or at least call a cab?? I know her apartment is just a few blocks away from his, but if he was truly concerned at all he could've given her $5 and called a cab. The cab company is right down the street (6th & Morton, I believe). It would have taken two minutes for a cab to get there and pick her up.

I know all of this has been mentioned on here a lot, but that phone call and some of these other details are really bugging me. This is all just my opinion, of course.

This is why I'm thinking he kicked her out rather than couldn't coax her to stay. Some commenters said she had "worn out her welcome" everywhere she went, including Sports of course. This also coincides with something I heard very early in the case.

 

[northsider]

First, I apologize if I've mistakenly perpetuated the idea that the bar manager works at Jake's. I had read that earlier on TG's blog in the comments. I'd be curious to hear where she worked, then.

Second, regarding the "mystery man" account --- let's parse LE's words here.

“What I’m here to tell you is that we have reviewed the video, not only the timeline that we have been using, … and where Lauren does in fact appear … she does appear in that video with someone that is already known to investigators. We have also reviewed it during the time period where it has been reported, essentially an hour later (at 3:38 a.m.), and we do not find any evidence that supports that information,” Qualters said.

They said that the video evidence didn't corroborate the account, right? Well, the cameras at 10th and College don't point towards the area where this incident supposedly took place. There are two cameras in the arcade --- both on the inside of it, and pointed at the storefronts. The one closest to the corner of 10th and College is pointed AWAY from the corner.

And as it's been noted, you could get to the corner of 10th and College by walking on the sidewalks (either 10th or College) and not be seen by either of those video camera.

Personally, I don't like the way Qualters phrased his answer, because it sounds like he's saying "We looked at the tapes during that time and there was no one there." But there wouldn't have been any tapes of the area the witness describes, so that's not what he's saying. It appears he's saying "We looked at the ALLEY tapes at 3:38 and there's no one there", which is a different matter entirely --- one that doesn't discount the witness account.

 

[Gabby66]

Ok, but I mean a more active use of the net. Like creating a false identity, posting comments to incite others to do so, publishing a fake website, trapping IP adresses, etc.

I am not an IT "geek"/specialist by any means but having an IP address only tells you the "IP address". It doesn't give you the name/owner, nor does it give you their physical address. You can find a general location, but not the address, unless you go through the Server. For example, when I search for my own IP address, it shows that I live in a nearby town. Once they have an IP address, they would have to subpoena that Internet server to find the owner. One would need legitimate reason to get that information....not just b/c LE is curious about posts. On top of that, the "owner" might be too broad to narrow down to one person b/c of the complexities of wireless Internet/locations. I absolutely think LE scour the net, but tracking IP addresses probably only happens if/when they are more than just "suspicious". The bottom line is, never say anything online that you wouldn't tell your Grandma :floorlaugh:

 

[northsider]

I find this comment almost unbelievable. Reality check: HT was just the roommate of LS and had nothing to do with her disappearance. She was not with her that night. Where did you see an accusatory tone made by her as "LS deserves what she got. It's her fault" as you wrote above ? She never said or implied anything like that. You should retract that erroneous comment.

The real POIs are people who were with her or who may be implicated otherwise. But to focus on her roommate and attack her and target her is in my opinion very wrong. JMO.

I agree to a point. The problem is that, for being "just the roommate" who had nothing to do with the disappearance, she has attempted to alibi people who aren't talking to the press (or, in the case of JR, to LE), which does seem like odd behavior. Furthermore, given the number of unknowns in this case, she probably saw Lauren as much as anyone during the time period immediately leading up to the events of the evening --- a period that could be crucial to figuring out what is going on. And instead of providing information about LS' evening or mental state, all I've seen HT talk about is the other people involved (JR, JW, CR, etc).

The questions I'd like to ask HT are:

- What were you and LS doing from 7 pm on June 2 until she left to go to JR's apartment at 12:45?
- Did LS seem emotionally or mentally distressed during the evening?
- Did LS talk about what she planned to do that night?
- Did you and/or LS consume any alcohol or drugs during that time period from 7 pm - 12:45 am, and if so, what kind and how much?
- Why didn't you go with her and DR to JR's apartment?
- Did anything unusual happen at the Speedway between LS and the males who were in your Indy 500 party earlier in the week?
- Did DR contact you after he left JR's apartment?
- Did LS contact you after she left JR's apartment?
- What did you do between the time LS left your apartment and the time you woke up in the morning?
- To your knowledge, does DR have your number in his cell phone?
- Can you think of any reason why LS wouldn't have called you if she was missing her keys or needed to be let in to her apartment?
- Had LS been partying or at the bars any other times during the week leading up to her disappearance?

 

[elmomom]

<snip> She was not with her that night. <snip>

Not accusing HT here of anything, but one follow up question for you - who supplied the info for the above statement?

 

[epiphany]

She hadn't started yet. [sad face] Monday, June 6 is when Summer classes started.

Who knows really considering the reporting:

Spierer was just two weeks from finishing summer classes when she vanished, and was planning to return to Greenburgh this week for an internship at Anthropologie, a clothing store in The Westchester mall.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201106...riends-school-reflect-missing-college-student

 

[phantomthought]

I'm really on the fence as of late...however, how does a supposedly upstanding friend allow a girl to walk home alone in the first place? It's one thing if she had a cell phone with her, but she didn't. We would hope she was coherent enough to be able to recognize that she had misplaced items especially since the claim was that she wasn't "stumbling" when she left.
How does someone allow her to leave without walking her that short distance, even based on the selfish thought of having to live with yourself if something happens to that individual. We can see from the timeline, it would have put him out, maybe 15 min. That's why I'm on the fence because how could someone not have the human decency? It's hard to fathom... So hard to believe the responsibility lies with friends, which is why I'm really struggling with fully focusing on JR.

In addition, if that call at 4:15 was about a phone' whereabouts, then he def was well aware of her leaving in such a vulnerable manner... No shoes, tiny girl, no phone, no purse, no keys.... Extremely irresponsible as a "friend". Who does that kind of thing?

Now, I'm not condemning JR, it's just that my inclination is to always believe and trust people that are close to me. However, who knows why the call was made to DR really? Maybe she called for a ride, but got the VM.

And by the way, "calling" is so much more vague in the sense of having to explain it. But texting... You would have to take the time and really fabricate a good message... That's much harder to cover up or explain.

If he was just a jerk or said he never thought that it would be a problem her walking home it would be one thing.But here is a guy that is so concerned about her walking home that he try's to get her to sleep on the couch (wonder where the out of town friend was going to sleep) and is going to watch her walk down the street and if she stumbles or falls make her come all the way back to his apartment.But just walking her home never enters his mind.

 

[holly2325]

If he was just a jerk or said he never thought that it would be a problem her walking home it would be one thing.But here is a guy that is so concerned about her walking home that he try's to get her to sleep on the couch (wonder where the out of town friend was going to sleep) and is going to watch her walk down the street and if she stumbles or falls make her come all the way back to his apartment.But just walking her home never enters his mind.

.........or how about. Text me from HT's phone to let me know you got home.

 

[Jupiter812]

Who knows really considering the reporting:

Spierer was just two weeks from finishing summer classes when she vanished, and was planning to return to Greenburgh this week for an internship at Anthropologie, a clothing store in The Westchester mall.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201106...riends-school-reflect-missing-college-student

Thanks. I checked the Ivy Tech calendar. There is a 10-week session that started May 23. Maybe she started then and the LOHUD article meant she was just two weeks into the summer classes (in which case she was eight weeks from finishing, of course, lol). But then neither would leave much time for an internship.

 

[kissdegirl]

But what if the video shows the exact same scenario? Witnesses can be wrong in descriptions...anyway, I was just trying to give an example, I think LE knows why her sighting cannot be right, timewise and/or other reasons...and just don't want to spell it out at this time.

I didn't get the feeling that LE was saying that sighting didn't happen either. I don't know why, and am trying to come up with a good explanation as to why LE has not released more video of LS that night. What happened in the elevator lobby with CR. Did he run out and she followed. Was she alone walking up that alley on her way to CRs, or did someone else other than CR join her or follow her, or them. Were they chased or taunted? Could something have happened right after that last video LE has reported of her at 2:51am that gave LE an idea of the activities of that night, and perhaps also why she dropped her keys/coinpurse?

LE seems so elusive about the punch and the walk in the alley as they never specify LS was with CR, IIRC? She wasn't involved in the altercation, and she could be seen walking in the alley.

The sighting. To me, with the sighting it was like they said it didn't happen at the exact place and time the witness said it did..not that it didn't happen period. So, I am sort of hung up on all that right now. And I listened to that presser with earphones in so as not to miss a word of it. I left it more confused about what the witness reported than cleared up. :crazy:

Why not just say the witness statement could not be verified with video? Instead he says it didn't happen there at that time. Elusive.
And why not say CR and LS were walking up the alley together.
And, why not say who hit CR and/or what the reported feud was about?
Also, not a word about what JR has reported went on in his apt other than he watched LS leave.

All MOO. Poke.

 

[PineMushroom]

yes, we should assume so, what's your point? (I'm interested, not complaining)

My point is that I am not sure LE believes the timeline provided by friends/media. LE is starting their official timeline at 1:46am when LS is shown on video entering Kilroy's but presumably they have video from earlier in the night. I find this interesting is all.

In regards to the police ending their official timeline at around 4:30am based on JR's statement, my hunch is that since this is a missing person case, the LE includes her last known whereabouts to assist in finding the person even if that info is given to LE by a POI.

Sorry for late response to you elmomom.