I sometimes wonder that too. It happened so quickly and Apperently w/o a trace.
IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #22
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I sometimes wonder that too. It happened so quickly and Apperently w/o a trace.
Ditto to both sentiments ...
Jupiter812
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Several weeks into the case rumor has it (from the PT site I believe) that the reason ZO punched CR is that CR gave LS too many drugs/coke/whatever. The way ZO found out about this to begin with was someone overheard LS's comments about being on Xanax and coke at Kilroy's Sports. Basically, LS's comments may have pointed to the supplier, ZO or someone else.
Related to both your post and Jupiter's (above), someone could have moved LS's shoes (cell tucked inside?) at Sports so she'd return to Smallwood for another pair. From what I've read, the bar wasn't crowded that night ... so if she was saying things she shouldn't, getting her out of there might have been the easiest way to quiet her. Following up, the confrontation at Smallwood could have been related to her behavior at Sports. Just a thought ... perhaps a bit on the wild side.
Jupiter812
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Alright. This is the simplest and best explanation I've read. It is from the Bloomington HT newspaper (not to be confused with HT the person) online comments section:
Q: Why why why was the landfill not searched immediately after her disappearance?
A: Because you need a credible tip to justify the expense of a landfill search (and for a search warrant too, but I'm kind of unclear about what is going on with that). For all we know they just got that tip in the last few weeks and are trying to hash out the logistics of the search to make it as productive as possible.
Q: Why why why was the landfill not searched immediately after her disappearance?
A: Because you need a credible tip to justify the expense of a landfill search (and for a search warrant too, but I'm kind of unclear about what is going on with that). For all we know they just got that tip in the last few weeks and are trying to hash out the logistics of the search to make it as productive as possible.
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I think we've all been wondering the same thing, and after the press release today detailed just how king they've been "working" on searching the landfill was frustrating to me. It didn't make sense that only a few days after her disappearance, LE was already speaking to people at the landfil/trash company, yet didn't start until 2 months later and they sound ok with that?
After thinking the above, my thoughts changed. Now I definitely agree with that commenter and I think that they wanted to exhaust ALL possible leads FIRST before searching the landfill. This makes some sense, assures hope, etc etc, but was the agony on the Spierers' face each day? I'm not sure.
Hard to judge rumors. Sometimes college students exaggerate. How would this scenario work? CR gave LS the drugs; LS then takes the drugs of her own free will; then, the guys back at Smallwood go into a rage, and start a fight with CR.
The underlying assumption is that the guys at Smallwood had strong feelings of protectiveness toward LS, almost the way that they would feel for their own younger sister.
At the same time, the guys at Smallwood would not have been considering LS quite adult. You get mad when someone gives booze/drugs to a minor, not when they give drugs to an adult who then voluntarily takes them.
Also, it presupposes an actual anti-drug disposition among the Smallwood crowd.
IF they felt that LS was doing too many drugs at the bar, seems to me that they would appeal directly to her.
Remember LS and CR were both running as if scared from Smallwood just a few minutes after the altercation.
So this scenario does not seem like a natural explanation for the fight.
LS does not seem to have been the focus of the altercation. She only ran after CR as he left Smallwood as if in concern for his feelings. If she saw the Smallwood crowd as her big brothers, she would have been upset, crying and pleading with them not to be angry, and not to take it out on CR, but she did not become involved at all. Therefore, JMO the altercation doesn't seem related to LS's behavior or associations.
This group at Smallwood does not seem to have been concerned friends of LS, nor did they necessarily live at Smallwood. Seems as if they were laying in wait for CR.
Then @ about 3:00 am, "activity" occurred in the alley. At this point, the group may have again interacted with CR and also LS.
Maybe CR/MB told LS to go to JR's place because the group was threatening and dangerous. Maybe this group then broke into JR's place and abducted LS from there. ? LS called DR @4:15 am, because someone was trying to get in the door. Maybe JR's story was partially true; LS may have walked away, but not alone, and not of her own free will.
If this group did abduct LS, at least two members of the same frat would be implicated: JW, and JR.
The group had some vendetta with the frat?
The dog results were not confirmed.
Maybe LS was aware of mortal danger from some group, and therefore planned ahead of time to run away on her own. She received assistance from friends in the Bloomington area, or maybe outside the area (since she traveled a lot, she may know people in Chicago, or other cities). They are protecting her by remaining silent. LS's parents' latest appeal seems to be considering this possibility.
HT said that she and LS spent a lot of time at JR's place the previous year. Was JR's place the unofficial frat house? Since LS was the long-time girlfriend of a frat member, JW, maybe she was perceived as closely associated with the frat. Similarly, HT may have been associated with the frat, either through her friendship with both JW and LS, or perhaps other friendships or a dating relationship with someone else in the frat. Maybe there was a group vs. group component to the altercation.
First, I am SO glad the landfill search is finally starting.
Jupiter said that a poster on another site said the fight with ZO was because LS was talking loudly at Kilroy's Sports about everything she had taken that night.
Someone must have texted ZO from the bar. Perhaps someone texted him to let him know that CR and LS were headed to SW. Or he was already there. He was angry about the bar talk and was planning to confront CR and LS.
I looked up the origin of "a friend of JW's" punched CR because CR was being inappropriate. MSM reported that "a witness" said that. Most likely, the "witness" was a friend of ZO trying to mislead LE and others about the true reason for the punch.
So why would ZO be upset that LS is saying what she took? Is he afraid that someone will ask LS or CR who supplied those items?
I have looked on Facebook and cannot find any connection between CR, JW, JR, DR, LS, and MB to ZO, BB and AB. So perhaps the connection is a business one.
On the morning after, I agree with phantomthought that HT probably thought LS was with CR. That explains the early MSM reports that CR was the last person with LS.
It also partially explains why HT was so upset with CR (we just met him, we don't really know him) and why she was so supportive of JW (we've known him for a long time, he is a good guy, he loves LS).
Also, if HT knew the reason for the SW fight, she would have known that LS had been talking about what she had taken that night. She was most likely upset with CR for perhaps encouraging LS or just being with her doing all that stuff. (And it could explain HT's statement: "LS liked to party, she just went too far this time.")
My guess is that HT and others knew about the altercation, and possibly the true reason for it, early on. She would also, most likely, have known that LS left SW with CR.
And, that belief, that CR was the last person with LS or the fact that she listed what she had taken that night, could explain the tiff at 5 North when JW allegedly confronted CR shortly after LS disappeared. JW, by that time, most likely knew about the fight at SW and the reason for it.
So, perhaps, HT did call JR or DR to see if they knew how to reach CR. (Since HT had just met CR and seems to not like him, she probably did not have his number in her phone.)
My question is, when did HT talk to JR? It seems that MSM reports for the first couple of days said CR was the last known person with LS.
It seems to me that HT must have talked to either CR or MB before she talked to JR and one of them said that LS went to JR's. The reason I say this is that no one wants to be the last person to see a missing person.
If HT talked to JR first, why wouldn't he have just said, I didn't see her after she was with CR.
Now the question becomes, does JR know what happened to LS?
Jupiter said that a poster on another site said the fight with ZO was because LS was talking loudly at Kilroy's Sports about everything she had taken that night.
Someone must have texted ZO from the bar. Perhaps someone texted him to let him know that CR and LS were headed to SW. Or he was already there. He was angry about the bar talk and was planning to confront CR and LS.
I looked up the origin of "a friend of JW's" punched CR because CR was being inappropriate. MSM reported that "a witness" said that. Most likely, the "witness" was a friend of ZO trying to mislead LE and others about the true reason for the punch.
So why would ZO be upset that LS is saying what she took? Is he afraid that someone will ask LS or CR who supplied those items?
I have looked on Facebook and cannot find any connection between CR, JW, JR, DR, LS, and MB to ZO, BB and AB. So perhaps the connection is a business one.
On the morning after, I agree with phantomthought that HT probably thought LS was with CR. That explains the early MSM reports that CR was the last person with LS.
It also partially explains why HT was so upset with CR (we just met him, we don't really know him) and why she was so supportive of JW (we've known him for a long time, he is a good guy, he loves LS).
Also, if HT knew the reason for the SW fight, she would have known that LS had been talking about what she had taken that night. She was most likely upset with CR for perhaps encouraging LS or just being with her doing all that stuff. (And it could explain HT's statement: "LS liked to party, she just went too far this time.")
My guess is that HT and others knew about the altercation, and possibly the true reason for it, early on. She would also, most likely, have known that LS left SW with CR.
And, that belief, that CR was the last person with LS or the fact that she listed what she had taken that night, could explain the tiff at 5 North when JW allegedly confronted CR shortly after LS disappeared. JW, by that time, most likely knew about the fight at SW and the reason for it.
So, perhaps, HT did call JR or DR to see if they knew how to reach CR. (Since HT had just met CR and seems to not like him, she probably did not have his number in her phone.)
My question is, when did HT talk to JR? It seems that MSM reports for the first couple of days said CR was the last known person with LS.
It seems to me that HT must have talked to either CR or MB before she talked to JR and one of them said that LS went to JR's. The reason I say this is that no one wants to be the last person to see a missing person.
If HT talked to JR first, why wouldn't he have just said, I didn't see her after she was with CR.
Now the question becomes, does JR know what happened to LS?
So, if the above scenarios that I posted make any sense, that means that ZO, AB, HT, CR, JW, and possibly JR have not been completely truthful with LE. Did anyone of them tell the true reason for the fight at SW, or did they let LE go with the "witness" statement that the punch came from a friend of JW's because CR was being inappropriate?
And did any of them tell LE all the drugs that had been taken that evening?
Is ZO that scary that the other POI's would allow that false story about the SW fight to stay out there?
And was anyone else at JR's when LS got there the second time? If so, who? And does JR know what happened, or was he passed out or somehow incapacitated? He might know something happened, but not what exactly.
And did any of them tell LE all the drugs that had been taken that evening?
Is ZO that scary that the other POI's would allow that false story about the SW fight to stay out there?
And was anyone else at JR's when LS got there the second time? If so, who? And does JR know what happened, or was he passed out or somehow incapacitated? He might know something happened, but not what exactly.
Unless they were thinking of contacting LE, why would he be concerned?
JMO: with the college drug scene, dealers are always treated as "friends." That is what sometimes lures them into dealing: instant "popularity."
But that is an interesting observation. Maybe there was some tension between the two groups.
Also, someone may have reported that LS had been threatened in some way, else LE would have waited at least 24 hours to designate LS as a missing person.
Maybe CR was an outsider.
Was LS into partying that bad, though? We haven't heard any prior history of such behavior.
Maybe she didn't need an explanation, but just saw it as part of an on-going series of minor group-vs-group confrontations.
? HT mistrusted CR.
We don't know that ZO or anyone else is definitely dealing drugs; but, even so, why would a drug dealer care if someone was talking about drugs?
Since CR went to bed, wouldn't that make MB the last known person anyways?
And, why did she go to JR's? The explanation that she just wanted to party doesn't fit.
But JR's story seems more convincing because there is this element of possible self-incrimination.
That was an MSM statement, not from LE. The witnesses may have been forthright with LE. We don't know.
We don't know if they did drugs. Their personal drug abuse would not bear directly on LS's disappearance (at least, not under normal circumstances).
The whole story is scary, and no one will be surprised if IU sees a large number of students transferring elsewhere.
JMO: he was incapacitated. Something happened. He isn't sure what. The story about LS leaving may only be partly true. Since the 4:15/4:30 am sighting is recorded on LE's timeline, we can assume that JR did report to LE the same or a close version of the same events. (If another witness had reported that sighting; JMO MSM would have reported, since that would assist the public in possibly providing some other detail). However, JR may also have told LE that his recollection is not reliable for reasons of being intoxicated that night.
Jupiter812
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From the local paper. A small aerial photo and article gives details of process underway. No subscription necessary.
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/
Jupiter812
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I just read it myself. I feel a little sick and a lot of sad.
JeannieC
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I feel the same way. Really mixed emotions. Her family is suffering beyond anything I can imagine and they need to know either way.
I don't want them to have to go through the rest of their lives not knowing as so many other families have done and are doing.
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