IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #30

[Ros]

BBM: yes, It was CR. there is no mystery man, according to the PI.

My guess is that LE likely does have more evidence we don't know about. (Maybe even video surveillance of a vehicle they identified) But so far, there's no indication that anything points to the witness or anyone else who has not been named as a POI.

I agree that LE is likely to have more evidence than we know of. They decided that the guy watching Kilroy's with a loaded gun was not involved since he did not provide any information that had not already been made public. To me, that implies that there IS information that is not known to the public. LE can use that information to tell whether someone was really involved or not.

Also, I don't think that LE has actually named persons of interest, they have only confirmed to journalists that certain people are persons of interest. The PIs have mentioned additional names, but only if those names were already out in the social media.

There are a number of reasons to keep names confidential. 1. To protect the innocent. 2. To keep from prejudicing a jury against a guilty party. 3. To keep the guilty party from realizing that he (or she) is under suspicion. And so forth. LE may be keeping names private for any of a number of reasons.

 

[Kadence]

Ix, I believe that was Btown, re N. Walnut

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #29

Since he was describing viewing the security footage, I don't think it's likely that anyone was erased.

ETA: since you've brought it up a few times, I'm curious about why/how Mickey was deleted from security footage by LE. Could you post an MSM link? TIA

Where is BTown? I wish we could learn more about what he/she (?) shared - hint, hint but understand if that is not possible. I really truly want this to be the last thread for Lauren. Of course, I'm still hoping upon hope for a good outcome.

As a side note, I do remember the discussion on Mickey's thread about her image being removed/erased from the photos of BSL's truck on the street. Doubt I could find it now but it seemed like there was credible confirmation that it had been done.

 

[Ixchel13]

BBM: yes, It was CR. there is no mystery man, according to the PI.

My guess is that LE likely does have more evidence we don't know about. (Maybe even video surveillance of a vehicle they identified) But so far, there's no indication that anything points to the witness or anyone else who has not been named as a POI.

well then the timeline is wrong if she saw them at 3:38, someone def has their times mixed up if the guy was CR. Like I said, maybe this witness was up at JRs, went back to 10th and College w. LS and _____?to get her phone, hit her head at that time on the steps, and the bar mgr and accomplice were the ones who hid Lauren. Possibly JR knows accomplice, so says it was 4:15 when she left instead of 3:15 when he saw her round the corner, giving them 45 min. leeway. If Lauren did decide to go back to 10th and College, she(they) would have gone to the corner and on down, not the way they came, it's easier and faster by sidewalk, so maybe he did see her turn the corner in
the company of someone else. Then, maybe this friend decided to double-cross JR and say they were never there, JR now lawyers up because now he's in a conspiracy.
So that's what JR could be lying about.

 

[Btown]

Where is BTown?

I'm here. Reading, watching, and searching.
Always wondering what/who I've overlooked.

Like you, still hopeful for a good ending.



Unfortunately, the body count keeps rising.

Woman's body found in White River in Owen County

Jun 21, 2013 --Fishermen found the body of a deceased woman in the White River in Freedom Wednesday afternoon.

Results from an autopsy and toxicology tests are pending, ~

The body was discovered in the water just south of the Freedom bridge. ~

Kohr estimated the woman was in her early 20s to early 30s, Frank said.

Officials plan to use dental records and fingerprinting to help identify the woman.

 

[Ixchel13]

i'm here. Reading, watching, and searching.
Always wondering what/who i've overlooked.

Like you, still hopeful for a good ending.



Unfortunately, the body count keeps rising.

woman's body found in white river in owen county

omg^^

 

[Ros]

I'm here. Reading, watching, and searching.
Always wondering what/who I've overlooked.

Like you, still hopeful for a good ending.



Unfortunately, the body count keeps rising.

Woman's body found in White River in Owen County

This woman's body had been in the water a week or less. Preliminary cause of death was drowning. Foul play not suspected. Still unidentified, though.

http://www.spencereveningworld.com/...s_Await_Dental_Records_To_Identify_Body_.html

 

[SmoothOperator]

Strictly an opinion from someone who has followed since day 1 of Lauren's disappearance(tho, in lurk mode for the last year).. In watching the Spierers' more recent 15+minute interview.. Combined with what I know about the case, the players, the dynamics, etc.. After watching their interview my honest impression is that her parents IMO appear to believe that Lauren died from an accidental overdose, or similar death resulting from what Lauren ingested that night and/or succumbing to possible head injury from multiple falls btwn SW and 5 N..IMO it appears as tho, they have their sights set on specifically Rossman and Beth and believe that they know exactly why and where their daughter is and were present when she died..

IMO it definitely appears as tho, these parents are very much in a realistic frame of mine wrt what happened and the strong likelihood that Lauren is and has been deceased since that June 3 early morning hours..and for that reality I am so, so very sorry for these two parents and sister in their having to continue living day to day in the worst of hellish limbos one can ever imagine in their just not knowing.. No sense of closure, solace, or the tiniest amount of peace of knowing the truth, having their daughter laid to rest as they so see fitting, and learning to live the rest of their lives with the huge, vacant hole of no longer having Lauren..

The limbo they are in IMO is the ultimate of hell and literally no end in sight..for this I am so very sorry for this precious family..

I do feel that tho they may not have confirmation of what happened to Lauren..I did however sense that they have a pretty firm belief on what they believe to be the most likeliest scenario that happened in those early morning hours that resulted in Lauren's life being lost and then the covering and concealing that began from that point and to this day still continues.. IMO they believe that Lauren's death was the result of alcohol/drugs that were ingested and/or possible succumbing to head injury.. and that Rossman and Beth chose to at that point dispose of/hide Lauren's body and claim she left them alive and well(well Beth claims this while Rossman claims to have the convenient amnesia which Rob did absolutely address AnD stated that he emphatically disbelieved this amnesia claim)..

So, I guess my main question or area that I am confused is with the fact that we have Jay Rosenbaum as the last known person to see Lauren alive and well that morning..NOT ROSSMAN AND BETH..but rather Jay who saw her actually not only leave the property of 5N, but IMO more importantly states that he actually saw her rounding the corner onto College.. IMO if that statement is fact then IMO that completely contradicts the scenario of Rossman and Beth being responsible unless AFTER Lauren(who by all accounts including her parents account) is so far beyond not only heavily intoxicated w/possible drugs combined, along with some pretty severe injuries to her head in repeated blunt force trauma via falls on the pavement. With Jay's statement being fact then that means Lauren would have had to backtrack AFTER Jay sees her round the corner onto College and then she backtracks back to 5N to Rossman and Beth apt..unless Beth or Rossman drove or walked to where Lauren was enroute back home to Smallwood and they instead take her back to 5N..???

See for me that just all cannot be true.. Jay Rosenbaums account IMO throws a huge monkey wrench into the entire Rossman and Beth are responsible in being present when Lauren either overdosed and/or succumbed to possible head injury from repeated head trauma via her head to pavement falls btwn SW and 5N.. And that Rossman and Beth did not attempt to get Lauren the medical help that she was desperately in need of..thus resulting in her death in those early morning hours and from there Rossman and Beth chose to dispose/hide her body and cover/conceal/continue to lie about the events off that early June morning..

Where does Jay Rosenbaum fit in?.. And if the above scenario were true then why in the hell would Jay illustrate the picture to have himself as the last known person to see Lauren alive that morning and the last known place was Lauren at the corner of 10th and College?..

IMO it just doesn't jive.. It doesn't fit, but IMO I do definitely believe that her parents IMO imply that its a similar scenario of Lauren dying due to intoxication/overdose and/or head injury..and the individuals who know what happened to their daughter and where she is now, are CR and MB..

Do others interpret it differently, if so what's your opinion on what her parents "seem" to believe is the scenario of how Lauren died and who is directly involved/responsible?

 

[Jmoose]

Strictly an opinion from someone who has followed since day 1 of Lauren's disappearance(tho, in lurk mode for the last year).. In watching the Spierers' more recent 15+minute interview.. Combined with what I know about the case, the players, the dynamics, etc.. After watching their interview my honest impression is that her parents IMO appear to believe that Lauren died from an accidental overdose, or similar death resulting from what Lauren ingested that night and/or succumbing to possible head injury from multiple falls btwn SW and 5 N..IMO it appears as tho, they have their sights set on specifically Rossman and Beth and believe that they know exactly why and where their daughter is and were present when she died..

IMO it definitely appears as tho, these parents are very much in a realistic frame of mine wrt what happened and the strong likelihood that Lauren is and has been deceased since that June 3 early morning hours..and for that reality I am so, so very sorry for these two parents and sister in their having to continue living day to day in the worst of hellish limbos one can ever imagine in their just not knowing.. No sense of closure, solace, or the tiniest amount of peace of knowing the truth, having their daughter laid to rest as they so see fitting, and learning to live the rest of their lives with the huge, vacant hole of no longer having Lauren..

The limbo they are in IMO is the ultimate of hell and literally no end in sight..for this I am so very sorry for this precious family..

I do feel that tho they may not have confirmation of what happened to Lauren..I did however sense that they have a pretty firm belief on what they believe to be the most likeliest scenario that happened in those early morning hours that resulted in Lauren's life being lost and then the covering and concealing that began from that point and to this day still continues.. IMO they believe that Lauren's death was the result of alcohol/drugs that were ingested and/or possible succumbing to head injury.. and that Rossman and Beth chose to at that point dispose of/hide Lauren's body and claim she left them alive and well(well Beth claims this while Rossman claims to have the convenient amnesia which Rob did absolutely address AnD stated that he emphatically disbelieved this amnesia claim)..

So, I guess my main question or area that I am confused is with the fact that we have Jay Rosenbaum as the last known person to see Lauren alive and well that morning..NOT ROSSMAN AND BETH..but rather Jay who saw her actually not only leave the property of 5N, but IMO more importantly states that he actually saw her rounding the corner onto College.. IMO if that statement is fact then IMO that completely contradicts the scenario of Rossman and Beth being responsible unless AFTER Lauren(who by all accounts including her parents account) is so far beyond not only heavily intoxicated w/possible drugs combined, along with some pretty severe injuries to her head in repeated blunt force trauma via falls on the pavement. With Jay's statement being fact then that means Lauren would have had to backtrack AFTER Jay sees her round the corner onto College and then she backtracks back to 5N to Rossman and Beth apt..unless Beth or Rossman drove or walked to where Lauren was enroute back home to Smallwood and they instead take her back to 5N..???

See for me that just all cannot be true.. Jay Rosenbaums account IMO throws a huge monkey wrench into the entire Rossman and Beth are responsible in being present when Lauren either overdosed and/or succumbed to possible head injury from repeated head trauma via her head to pavement falls btwn SW and 5N.. And that Rossman and Beth did not attempt to get Lauren the medical help that she was desperately in need of..thus resulting in her death in those early morning hours and from there Rossman and Beth chose to dispose/hide her body and cover/conceal/continue to lie about the events off that early June morning..

Where does Jay Rosenbaum fit in?.. And if the above scenario were true then why in the hell would Jay illustrate the picture to have himself as the last known person to see Lauren alive that morning and the last known place was Lauren at the corner of 10th and College?..

IMO it just doesn't jive.. It doesn't fit, but IMO I do definitely believe that her parents IMO imply that its a similar scenario of Lauren dying due to intoxication/overdose and/or head injury..and the individuals who know what happened to their daughter and where she is now, are CR and MB..

Do others interpret it differently, if so what's your opinion on what her parents "seem" to believe is the scenario of how Lauren died and who is directly involved/responsible?

it fits, for me, if Rosenbaum was the provider of the drugs that she ingested-could be that's the deal that Rossman, Beth and Rosenbaum made, so that Rossman didn't rat on Rosenbaum and a possible drug selling enterprise-Rossman pleads amnesia, and Rosenbaum admits to being the last to see her leave their building.

 

[imkeylime]

it fits, for me, if Rosenbaum was the provider of the drugs that she ingested-could be that's the deal that Rossman, Beth and Rosenbaum made, so that Rossman didn't rat on Rosenbaum and a possible drug selling enterprise-Rossman pleads amnesia, and Rosenbaum admits to being the last to see her leave their building.

I could see that happening. I keep going back to a comment ... in the Lohud article from last year, I believe ... in which a PI said MB called JR and "made her his problem," supposedly because JR knew LS better than MB did. Maybe in actuality it didn't happen because of JR/LS' friendship, but because the problem originated at JR's and all three knew it. ???

Apart from that, I don't see why JR would put his neck out for CR and MB. Unless they were all involved in some sort of sexual assault situation together. While I cringe to consider that, there have been so many such scenarios as of late that I don't think we can discount it.

 

[doubtingthomas]

Posters keep asking why JR would stick his neck out for CR/MB. I dont see it that way. I think he is covering his own butt. The fact that the party started at his house where alcohol and drugs were consumed implicates him. The fact that MB called JR now has him involved. If MB tells JR that he will say that LS left his apt and went to JR's, how will he explain what happen to her? I think they knew there were no camers around and therefore how could anyone contest their story. It would better for them to devise a story that clears all of them and stick to it. Otherwise it becomes finger pointing. So far they are right. We are two years into her missing and have not been able to prove there story wrong. I personally think she never made it to 5N. I think CR realized she expired somewhere around the dumpster(where dogs lost her scent). He went in to tell MB who then contacted JR. This caused CR to vomit and he went to bed. From looking at the maps that Btown posted I could see how someone could drive down 11th to the ally where the dumpster is behind 5N, pick her up and go west on 11th and never be seen on camera. IMO it would have to be someone that was at JR's apt.

 

[Ixchel13]

I could see that happening. I keep going back to a comment ... in the Lohud article from last year, I believe ... in which a PI said MB called JR and "made her his problem," supposedly because JR knew LS better than MB did. Maybe in actuality it didn't happen because of JR/LS' friendship, but because the problem originated at JR's and all three knew it. ???

Apart from that, I don't see why JR would put his neck out for CR and MB. Unless they were all involved in some sort of sexual assault situation together. While I cringe to consider that, there have been so many such scenarios as of late that I don't think we can discount it.

Out of all the witnesses that night , no one was hooked up, it had somehow been telegraphed (text vibes?) that it wasn't a date night--except
Lauren and CR it seems. No one has a gf,bf, or hookup to back up their stories. At least we aren't privy to any. After the altercation, did everyone split up and go home? doubtful. More like everyone took off for other parties up and down the block, and I'm sure the altercation was noted at these parties.
We need to yet again dust off the timeline. If the Spierers' believe it was CR and MB, then Lauren doubling back to their house one more time to look for her phone is possible.
Back to the woman pedestrian, BTown implies she was almost to SmallWood, wonder if this pedestrian entered SW, or a car parked near there?
Chances are this person either worked in the area (bar manager?) or
lived in SmallWood (already past 10th and College). BW knew MB. One of Lauren's roommates could have been at 10th and College or 5N around the time of her disappearance. We don't know who was where.

 

[AbbeyR]

Posters keep asking why JR would stick his neck out for CR/MB. I dont see it that way. I think he is covering his own butt. The fact that the party started at his house where alcohol and drugs were consumed implicates him. The fact that MB called JR now has him involved. If MB tells JR that he will say that LS left his apt and went to JR's, how will he explain what happen to her? I think they knew there were no camers around and therefore how could anyone contest their story. It would better for them to devise a story that clears all of them and stick to it. Otherwise it becomes finger pointing. So far they are right. We are two years into her missing and have not been able to prove there story wrong. I personally think she never made it to 5N. I think CR realized she expired somewhere around the dumpster(where dogs lost her scent). He went in to tell MB who then contacted JR. This caused CR to vomit and he went to bed. From looking at the maps that Btown posted I could see how someone could drive down 11th to the ally where the dumpster is behind 5N, pick her up and go west on 11th and never be seen on camera. IMO it would have to be someone that was at JR's apt.

I agree that JR is not sticking his neck out for anyone. I think the reason he immediately hired Voyles (the next working day after Lauren went missing), left town and didn't say a word is that he is protecting himself because of his own involvement in whatever happened that night. I really think they were all together when CR came back to 5 N, or at least after the phone call from MB to JR. It would explain the fact that MB and JR both seem to have originally given the same story about 'watching Lauren walk down the street toward home" using the exact same words. I also do not believe that CR went to bed, but JMO.

 

[imkeylime]

Out of all the witnesses that night , no one was hooked up, it had somehow been telegraphed (text vibes?) that it wasn't a date night--except
Lauren and CR it seems. No one has a gf,bf, or hookup to back up their stories. At least we aren't privy to any. After the altercation, did everyone split up and go home? doubtful. More like everyone took off for other parties up and down the block, and I'm sure the altercation was noted at these parties.
We need to yet again dust off the timeline. If the Spierers' believe it was CR and MB, then Lauren doubling back to their house one more time to look for her phone is possible. ...

Snipped by me (the pedestrian part interests me, but I need to refresh). I suspect LS was in it for the party but CR was in it for more. I've talked this out with my daughter ... why hang out with a guy when you're going with another? She sees nothing wrong, but it could get messy if that guy wants something the young woman doesn't.

Or maybe I'm wrong and something else was going on. LS may have felt more comfortable with CR than we think. If she could physically leave JR's at that point, she could have looped back, like you suggest, for whatever reason. IMO, that's the $100,000 question. Was she physically able to leave JR's on foot? I doubt it but really can't say.

That's also what holds me back from considering other options, i.e., random abduction or JW. I have a hard time reconciling the description of LS in the alley with CR and LS leaving JR's less than two hours later. JMO.

 

[imkeylime]

I agree that JR is not sticking his neck out for anyone. I think the reason he immediately hired Voyles (the next working day after Lauren went missing), left town and didn't say a word is that he is protecting himself because of his own involvement in whatever happened that night. I really think they were all together when CR came back to 5 N, or at least after the phone call from MB to JR. It would explain the fact that MB and JR both seem to have originally given the same story about 'watching Lauren walk down the street toward home" using the exact same words. I also do not believe that CR went to bed, but JMO.

Maybe CR was too shaken up by something to be trusted to keep the story straight, hence he used the amnesia card? I'm no fan of CR, but I think it's possible he was pretty messed up that night, due to whatever. He may have thrown up, like MB says, from that or from something that made him sick (involving LS?). So he's told to say nothing and let JR do the talking. And then MB is forced (why though?) to keep the story as straight as possible (which he doesn't exactly do).

 

[AbbeyR]

If she could physically leave JR's at that point, she could have looped back, like you suggest, for whatever reason. IMO, that's the $100,000 question. Was she physically able to leave JR's on foot? I doubt it but really can't say.

That's also what holds me back from considering other options, i.e., random abduction or JW. I have a hard time reconciling the description of LS in the alley with CR and LS leaving JR's less than two hours later. JMO.

The question about her looping back just reminded me of someone's theory I read a long time ago (I'm trying to remember where I saw it...) It involved CR calling JR's to find Lauren after she left and finding her in the street. This may have had something to do with the early (mistaken?) time frame from the witness, but it was something that made me think -- especially because of the confusion over the time of that "Have you seen a little blonde girl" comment. It also corresponds to a few details we know now that weren't known at the time I read it, like the phone call to JR at 3:30...

I'd like to know: Whose phone that call came from (MB or CR's?) and what time/ day CR had this encounter with C.M. (the neighbor).

 

[AbbeyR]

I just searched for that comment I remembered, and found it. I'm not familiar with this website, but this comment stuck out to me at the time and more so now.

Comment by PoeticSounds63 from July 5, 2011

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2011/06/lauren_spierer_missing_in_indi.php

There are parts of this that made me think. (It's likely a coincidence, but I feel like there are other details in this comment that weren't known at the time the comment was originally posted. Like the phone call, and CR dragging Lauren home... Or maybe I'm wrong)

 

[AbbeyR]

There's another comment on that site that references a post about JR that has a dead link, but searching for it I found this post, which I had never seen before.

It's from "crimekittehs.com" Not sure what that is and the original site is gone, so, take with a grain of salt. I doubt the police cared so much about protecting JR (?), and I don't doubt their efforts in trying to find Lauren. But from what I've read about Voyles, he does seem to have a lot of influence...

Jay has been lawyered up from the beginning and has kept his mouth shut for 131 days. Jay has the protection of both his high powered attorney Jim Voyles and the Bloomington, ID police department.

My source at Crime Kittehs actually spoke with the lead detective on the case and the detective made it clear that at this point protecting Jay Rosenbaum was almost a higher priority than finding out what happened to Lauren.

Jim Voyles is a powerful man, he has a lot more influence in the Bloomington police department than the cops would like to admit.

http://www.zimbio.com/IU/articles/r1rctl8lQRA/Lauren+Spierer+Still+Missing+Friends+Still, Oct. 2011

 

[Jacobite]

Since the very beginning, there has been a rumor about a fraternity plot to set this girl up for date rape with a roofie. But, the plot goes terribly wrong and she dies. So, now it's a murder charge and they all lawyer-up and won't talk.

 

[Ixchel13]

Since the very beginning, there has been a rumor about a fraternity plot to set this girl up for date rape with a roofie. But, the plot goes terribly wrong and she dies. So, now it's a murder charge and they all lawyer-up and won't talk.

well, that's interesting, even if not true, it sounds like almost a townie against gownie rumor. Alot of the bar employees have an insane dislike for
the Greek system students, even the non-Greek student employees don't like them. Read jealousy, plain and simple, these Greek kids are no better/worse than everyone else, they just don't have to work and that is galling to hard-working bar employees, the nice ones and the bad ones included. They look at these kids as strictly dollar bills, sometimes they are nice to them but alot of times,
75% of the time at least, they get perfunctory, if that, service.
Don't see a frat retaliating against another Greek's girlfriend unless that
guy did something like that to one of their girlfriends.

 

[imkeylime]

I just searched for that comment I remembered, and found it. I'm not familiar with this website, but this comment stuck out to me at the time and more so now.

Comment by PoeticSounds63 from July 5, 2011

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2011/06/lauren_spierer_missing_in_indi.php

There are parts of this that made me think. (It's likely a coincidence, but I feel like there are other details in this comment that weren't known at the time the comment was originally posted. Like the phone call, and CR dragging Lauren home... Or maybe I'm wrong)

IMO, the most interesting part of the post is: "SHE GETS AWAY, LEAVES THE APARTMENT, AND GOES TO ROSSMAN'S NEIGHBOR JAY ROSENBAUM''S APARTMENT FOR HELP." (Not my caps.) Remember the varying accounts of what happened at MB/CR's ... particularly the one where a neighbor said MB claimed LS had left? What if she did but someone (CR?) went after her and she bolted, which would fit with the witness sighting. Or instead of going to JR's she headed back toward SW but was intercepted?

As usual, I can't figure out how JR fits into this scenario, unless she did end up at JR's. Or they all did? Sigh.