IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #30

[Kadence]

Here's what I don't get though: All it would take is an ANONYMOUS tip from any one of these guys or any one who knows what happened and where she might be. Why can't any one do that? Surely they can offer something without self identifying.

Maybe this website will encourage an anonymous tip:

http://wetip.com/

Someone knows something - please make the information known, not yourself, by using the info on this website:

"Because people…everyone...students, employees, citizens…everyone needs a way to safely give information about something that they know…a crime, a suspicion, an incident, a threat…something they suspect… something that scares them…without fearing someone will retaliate against them for telling. It is simple, it is safe, it is totally and absolutely anonymous."

There's even a QR code you can scan to submit a tip. Be like Nike, Just Do It!

 

[akh]

In these days of CSI on TV.... CIA, NSA, hackers in the news.... etc., I doubt there is anyone naive enough to believe they can post a tip anonymously.

 

[Mahouston69]

What "reports" had pics of steps in front of a residence? Supposedly the bar mgr said they were on the steps by the clock but that really could be 3 out of 5 sets. I dunno.

10th, and College concrete steps by clock. Google view.

After this past week,I am fully subscribing to her friends watching her seize, go into a coma and dump her somewhere via DB. I No longer think JW is responsible.

Today an otherwise healthy 52 year old died at 2:38 pm, after being taken off life support that kept her alive for a week. A woman extremely happy, with QT Long, who went out with friends a week ago, last Saturday and drank a few glasses of wine, smoked, did coke, then took Valium to sleep the next afternoon/evening. Her boyfriend found her in bed, an hour later, seizing, then no heart beat. Despite 911, CPR, shocks to her heart, bringing her heart back to a regular beat. She remained brain dead.

I think she did "sleep" on the couch after trying to call friends, unsuccessfully. I think somebody got up to use the bathroom, get a drink, found her unresponsive, JR and DB panicked, and planned their defense (her prints, DNA might be found in the apt) and her disappearance in the early morning hours.

Opportunity, motive, resources.

 

[imkeylime]

10th, and College concrete steps by clock. Google view.

After this past week,I am fully subscribing to her friends watching her seize, go into a coma and dump her somewhere via DB. I No longer think JW is responsible.

Today an otherwise healthy 52 year old died at 2:38 pm, after being taken off life support that kept her alive for a week. A woman extremely happy, with QT Long, who went out with friends a week ago, last Saturday and drank a few glasses of wine, smoked, did coke, then took Valium to sleep the next afternoon/evening. Her boyfriend found her in bed, an hour later, seizing, then no heart beat. Despite 911, CPR, shocks to her heart, bringing her heart back to a regular beat. She remained brain dead.

I think she did "sleep" on the couch after trying to call friends, unsuccessfully. I think somebody got up to use the bathroom, get a drink, found her unresponsive, JR and DB panicked, and planned their defense (her prints, DNA might be found in the apt) and her disappearance in the early morning hours.

Opportunity, motive, resources.

So sad ... thinking of her friends and family. Your comment makes a lot of sense, and on top of it all, the POIs (other than JW) probably didn't even know LS had long QT. So they might have blamed it on whatever she ingested, and if that came from them, they might have doubly panicked.

There have even been heart-related deaths from drinking Red Bull and hard alcohol, I've learned.

 

[AbbeyR]

 

For sure it's about drugs. It takes a lot for a frat to get kicked off campus. And their behaviors too, such as but not only hazing. What does that tell ya about the potentialities on that fateful night? I also have to wonder: Might JW's frat bros know anything personal about his relationship with Lauren?

I remember reading about the hazing here, but I just looked it up and found this:

McKaig said some of Alpha Epsilon Pi’s hazing consisted of sleep deprivation, late night activities, “fighting fear” by intentionally scaring pledges and leading members to remote areas and making them walk back to campus

http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=58672&search=night&section=search

Creepy.

There seem to be rumors about drugs being a factor (see comments) but it's not mentioned in the article. Google Aepi though, and it seems like being suspended for hazing and/or coke dealing is a pretty common theme.

As a result of the infractions against the fraternity, the Beta Iota chapter suspended 29 members who were involved.

So were JW, his roommate and JR part of the old AEPi when this happened?

”Friendships forged four years ago at the Alpha Epsilon Pi fraternity house on the IU campus may play a role in this investigation. It was at the AEP house that Spierer’s boyfriend, Jesse Wolff, met Jay Rosenbaum" (Chicago Tribune)

On PT, AaronWG says they didn't know JR because he was younger and not well liked in the frat. He adds that no one met at the AEPi house because they had been kicked out. (But he also says Jay is a member of their 'underground' frat) Anyway, his point is that no one would help Jay cover up a crime just because they are in the same frat. He follows that up by blaming the suspension -- not on the (illegal?) hazing or people who did it -- but on the person who snitched to the Dean and the Frat President who was 'dumb enough to admit it'. (PT 06/21/2011 21:30)

AaronWG was pretty quick to jump in on PT and say that JR probably gave LS coke, and that drugs were the key factor. But he also claimed to know exactly how many mg. of xanax Lauren had taken, and they weren't out with her. Wonder where he got that info and if he provided it to LE.

Just thinking outloud....

 

[AbbeyR]

If anyone's bored, here's an interesting article that I came across when reading about AEPi. They lost their house at Columbia after a high profile drug bust (only one of the dealers was from AEPi, but there were allegations that members knew there was dealing from the house and covered it up.) Anyway, it shows the risk of even low level drug dealing to friends:

5 students at Columbia charged with drug dealing: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/08/nyregion/08columbia.html?_r=0

The Columbia Kid: (AEPi coke dealer) http://nymag.com/news/features/70308/)

 

[akh]

10th, and College concrete steps by clock. Google view.

After this past week,I am fully subscribing to her friends watching her seize, go into a coma and dump her somewhere via DB. I No longer think JW is responsible.

Today an otherwise healthy 52 year old died at 2:38 pm, after being taken off life support that kept her alive for a week. A woman extremely happy, with QT Long, who went out with friends a week ago, last Saturday and drank a few glasses of wine, smoked, did coke, then took Valium to sleep the next afternoon/evening. Her boyfriend found her in bed, an hour later, seizing, then no heart beat. Despite 911, CPR, shocks to her heart, bringing her heart back to a regular beat. She remained brain dead.

I think she did "sleep" on the couch after trying to call friends, unsuccessfully. I think somebody got up to use the bathroom, get a drink, found her unresponsive, JR and DB panicked, and planned their defense (her prints, DNA might be found in the apt) and her disappearance in the early morning hours.

Opportunity, motive, resources.

I've thought about a scenario like that. For one thing something that would change the timeline and cause LE to be looking at the wrong period of time on the video. Maybe whatever happened occurred at let's say 6AM instead of 4:30AM. Were LE checking video of vehicles and people movement at 6AM or more or were they solely focused on 4:30AM give or take?

But the one thing that I'd think would hurt your scenario is cadaver dogs. Didn't the apartments get searched by cadaver dogs? Also, wouldn't an OD leave bodily fluids that should be found? Could that be cleaned up beyond what forensics could find? And would these people be able to clean up a crime scene like that without raising suspicions (not shown buying anything out of the ordinary, not noticed removing things from the apartment, not noticed by others during an intensive cleanup, etc)? ...and yet cleaned up and not leaving any forensic evidence behind?

Can cadaver dogs be thrown off the scent? Can that even be cleaned up and accounted for?

 

[AbbeyR]

We know the apartments were searched with dogs, but we don't know the results.

 

[imkeylime]

I've thought about a scenario like that. For one thing something that would change the timeline and cause LE to be looking at the wrong period of time on the video. Maybe whatever happened occurred at let's say 6AM instead of 4:30AM. Were LE checking video of vehicles and people movement at 6AM or more or were they solely focused on 4:30AM give or take?

But the one thing that I'd think would hurt your scenario is cadaver dogs. Didn't the apartments get searched by cadaver dogs? Also, wouldn't an OD leave bodily fluids that should be found? Could that be cleaned up beyond what forensics could find? And would these people be able to clean up a crime scene like that without raising suspicions (not shown buying anything out of the ordinary, not noticed removing things from the apartment, not noticed by others during an intensive cleanup, etc)? ...and yet cleaned up and not leaving any forensic evidence behind?

Can cadaver dogs be thrown off the scent? Can that even be cleaned up and accounted for?

I agree about the dogs ... since LS was known to have been at 5N (both JR's and MB/CR's) that night, searching with anything less than a cadaver dog wouldn't do much good, would it?

But in terms of ODing ... I think what Mahouston is referring to is a long QT syndrome attack (seizing, etc.), which might differ from an OD (although who knows what someone witnessing it would think).

That said, maybe someone started out with good intentions, i.e., driving her to emergency, and then panicked? IDK ... it would have made more sense to just call 911. OTOH, she probably did look like she'd been assaulted (and who knows, perhaps she was).

 

[Kadence]

In these days of CSI on TV.... CIA, NSA, hackers in the news.... etc., I doubt there is anyone naive enough to believe they can post a tip anonymously.

True, but perhaps this website offers a way, I didn't delve into the specifics of the website and how it is truly "anonymous" but plan on pursuing just that this weekend. They tout themselves as anonymous so I will see how that works and will report back. Just looking for a way that someone can tell what they know.

 

[Kadence]

10th, and College concrete steps by clock. Google view.

After this past week,I am fully subscribing to her friends watching her seize, go into a coma and dump her somewhere via DB. I No longer think JW is responsible.

Today an otherwise healthy 52 year old died at 2:38 pm, after being taken off life support that kept her alive for a week. A woman extremely happy, with QT Long, who went out with friends a week ago, last Saturday and drank a few glasses of wine, smoked, did coke, then took Valium to sleep the next afternoon/evening. Her boyfriend found her in bed, an hour later, seizing, then no heart beat. Despite 911, CPR, shocks to her heart, bringing her heart back to a regular beat. She remained brain dead.

I think she did "sleep" on the couch after trying to call friends, unsuccessfully. I think somebody got up to use the bathroom, get a drink, found her unresponsive, JR and DB panicked, and planned their defense (her prints, DNA might be found in the apt) and her disappearance in the early morning hours.

Opportunity, motive, resources.

Condolences to you Mahouston, my thoughts are with you. Your sharing of this story makes the realization of what may have happened to Lauren a true possibility. I'm glad that your friend's boyfriend did the right thing, called 911, despite of any consequences, he put her before himself - well done, please offer him my condolences as well and my thanks for doing the right thing.

 

[Mahouston69]

Condolences to you Mahouston, my thoughts are with you. Your sharing of this story makes the realization of what may have happened to Lauren a true possibility. I'm glad that your friend's boyfriend did the right thing, called 911, despite of any consequences, he put her before himself - well done, please offer him my condolences as well and my thanks for doing the right thing.

He is crushed and very hard on himself right now. He takes all the blame. He is over the top trying to reassure her two teenage boys it was a stupid mistake mixing everything, but she wasn't a chronic user and had never done coke before, but trying to fit in her bikini for an upcoming Hawaii trip so sad. Thank you, I will pass along your thoughts. Xo

 

[AbbeyR]

[Reposting this... ]

Here are a few ways to submit an anonymous tip:

1) Send an anonymous email: This can be done by following a few simple instructions: http://www.tomsguide.com/us/-anonymous-email-how-to,news-17511.html

2) If things like Proxy servers sound too techy: Walk into a library and send an anonymous email: http://anonymouse.org/anonemail.html
(Most public libraries don't monitor users or track internet use as a matter of principle, but you can check their privacy policies where you live to be sure).

3) Old School: Make an anonymous call to the tipline from a payphone

4) By mail: Use the anonymous PO box set up by the Spierers. If you want to be extra cautious,this post gives some suggestions and links to an earlier conversation on submitting anonymous tips: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6943568&postcount=252"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #19[/ame]


5) Call Crime Stoppers or submit an anonymous tip online: https://www.tipsubmit.com/webtips.as...D=655&DSID=655

Here's the anonymous tip website that Kadence posted:
http://wetip.com/

and last,

6) Consider the consequences of not being anonymous too. Stepping up and telling the truth carries a lot of weight. It's been said a million times because it's true: It's never too late to do the right thing!

helpfindlauren@gmail.com

Bloomington Police Department Tipline 812.339.4477

Find Lauren PO Box 1226 Bloomington, IN 47402

 

[akh]

Not one of those are truly (and guaranteed) anonymous if someone wants to try hard enough to trace the tip back to the source.

Are we going to assume there are no cameras that would capture a person entering the library or in close enough proximity that the timing would be interesting? Add in someone known to the case caught on camera in close proximity to the library when the tip was sent in and that would be looked at extremely closely.

Anything sent thru the mail would be subject to DNA and trace evidence (fibers, fingerprints, paper type (where it was purchased, etc). As well as some form of tracing it back to the area it was mailed from which could lead to more photographic evidence.

Payphone, if you can find one, has the same problem- cameras... The call can be traced back to the originating phone and time. Now area cameras can either pinpoint who made the call or narrow the list. Anyone known to the case that would be caught on camera in that area would certainly be open to suspicion of making the call. Add in trace evidence, fingerprints, etc. at and around the phone.

Would they do that? I don't know. I suppose it would depend on the nature of the tip and whether the person would seem to have been involved in the crime to have inside knowledge versus just hearsay. Or whether this person would be needed in order to make the case somehow.

I said quite some time ago 100% criminal and civil immunity for the first to come forward might be the only way to get anyone to come forward. Maybe you offer that for an accidental death and panic scenario to get answers and closure but you certainly couldn't do it for any intentional scenarios. I wouldn't think so anyway.

In this day and age a truly anonymous tip would just be fantasy. Maybe an agreement that you'd remain anonymous is possible, but certainly the authorities have the resources to track down tips if they so desire.

 

[Jupiter812]

[Reposting this... ]

Here are a few ways to submit an anonymous tip:

1) Send an anonymous email: This can be done by following a few simple instructions: http://www.tomsguide.com/us/-anonymous-email-how-to,news-17511.html

2) If things like Proxy servers sound too techy: Walk into a library and send an anonymous email: http://anonymouse.org/anonemail.html
(Most public libraries don't monitor users or track internet use as a matter of principle, but you can check their privacy policies where you live to be sure).

3) Old School: Make an anonymous call to the tipline from a payphone

4) By mail: Use the anonymous PO box set up by the Spierers. If you want to be extra cautious,this post gives some suggestions and links to an earlier conversation on submitting anonymous tips: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #19


5) Call Crime Stoppers or submit an anonymous tip online: https://www.tipsubmit.com/webtips.as...D=655&DSID=655

Here's the anonymous tip website that Kadence posted:
http://wetip.com/

and last,

6) Consider the consequences of not being anonymous too. Stepping up and telling the truth carries a lot of weight. It's been said a million times because it's true: It's never too late to do the right thing!

This is very good. I just PMed Bessie asking if it can posted on the first page of Lauren's threads.

 

[Jupiter812]

Not one of those are truly (and guaranteed) anonymous if someone wants to try hard enough to trace the tip back to the source.

Are we going to assume there are no cameras that would capture a person entering the library or in close enough proximity that the timing would be interesting? Add in someone known to the case caught on camera in close proximity to the library when the tip was sent in and that would be looked at extremely closely.

Anything sent thru the mail would be subject to DNA and trace evidence (fibers, fingerprints, paper type (where it was purchased, etc). As well as some form of tracing it back to the area it was mailed from which could lead to more photographic evidence.

Payphone, if you can find one, has the same problem- cameras... The call can be traced back to the originating phone and time. Now area cameras can either pinpoint who made the call or narrow the list. Anyone known to the case that would be caught on camera in that area would certainly be open to suspicion of making the call. Add in trace evidence, fingerprints, etc. at and around the phone.

Would they do that? I don't know. I suppose it would depend on the nature of the tip and whether the person would seem to have been involved in the crime to have inside knowledge versus just hearsay. Or whether this person would be needed in order to make the case somehow.

I said quite some time ago 100% criminal and civil immunity for the first to come forward might be the only way to get anyone to come forward. Maybe you offer that for an accidental death and panic scenario to get answers and closure but you certainly couldn't do it for any intentional scenarios. I wouldn't think so anyway.

In this day and age a truly anonymous tip would just be fantasy. Maybe an agreement that you'd remain anonymous is possible, but certainly the authorities have the resources to track down tips if they so desire.

Not so fast...

Monroe County Public Library would be a perfect place for a tipster. It is very anti-big brother, as are many libraries in liberal communities. And which municipalities have all the resources they want to do the tracing, especially with cutbacks?? I'm not referring to the asinine shutdown. Surely there are communities with payphones and no cameras! You can drive an hour or so from Boston and find a payphone with no camera. CR are you listening?!

 

[Jupiter812]

Akh, I have to admit: I find it curious about how quickly and ardently you refute posts about anonymous tips. Any particular reason?

 

[akh]

Akh, I have to admit: I find it curious about how quickly and ardently you refute posts about anonymous tips. Any particular reason?

I just think most people think like me and don't believe them to be truly anonymous and would be afraid to use those resources.

So when people question why someone doesn't at least step up to the plate and tell what they know anonymously I feel that is being naive.

These people would fear that. Especially a younger, computer savvy generation, that has learned all about cameras being everywhere not only from this case but from cases in the news.

And then there's the heightened expectations about what forensics can do.

In court prosecutors now fear juries when they can't present CSI TV type forensics that juries have come to expect.

So IMHO anyone wishing stay under the radar, either because they are involved or because they might know (or think they know) what happened but don't want to be seen as being disloyal (or whatever their reasoning might be to not want it known they pointed LE at someone), would fear that 'anonymous' tips can never truly be anonymous.

So to be surprised nobody has used that resource doesn't surprise me and IMO shouldn't surprise others either. Yet it seems that it does.

 

[bessie]

Thanks to Jupiter for sharing Abbey's excellent post. I've started adding this link to the OP's in Lauren's threads. I've already added it to the very first post, and the last five or six. I'll eventually get all of them done.

*** How to Submit an Anonymous Tip in the Lauren Spierer Case ***

Which reminds me, we're ready for a new thread. I'll get it started and be back with the link shortly.
​

 

[bessie]

New thread open for posting...

IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #31 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community