IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #30

[elmorejames]

I just searched for that comment I remembered, and found it. I'm not familiar with this website, but this comment stuck out to me at the time and more so now.

Comment by PoeticSounds63 from July 5, 2011

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2011/06/lauren_spierer_missing_in_indi.php

There are parts of this that made me think. (It's likely a coincidence, but I feel like there are other details in this comment that weren't known at the time the comment was originally posted. Like the phone call, and CR dragging Lauren home... Or maybe I'm wrong)

Good link! I read all the comments and few definitely stuck out to me. Granted it was over two years ago when many of those comments were made, I suggest reading them if you have 10-15 minutes.

 

[Ros]

This woman's body had been in the water a week or less. Preliminary cause of death was drowning. Foul play not suspected. Still unidentified, though.

http://www.spencereveningworld.com/...s_Await_Dental_Records_To_Identify_Body_.html

The body has been identified as a 27 year old mother of five from Bloomington

http://www.greenfieldreporter.com/view/story/6704d76513fb4f9bb89486abaeccaed2/IN--Body-Found

 

[Jmoose]

Posters keep asking why JR would stick his neck out for CR/MB. I dont see it that way. I think he is covering his own butt. The fact that the party started at his house where alcohol and drugs were consumed implicates him. The fact that MB called JR now has him involved. If MB tells JR that he will say that LS left his apt and went to JR's, how will he explain what happen to her? I think they knew there were no camers around and therefore how could anyone contest their story. It would better for them to devise a story that clears all of them and stick to it. Otherwise it becomes finger pointing. So far they are right. We are two years into her missing and have not been able to prove there story wrong. I personally think she never made it to 5N. I think CR realized she expired somewhere around the dumpster(where dogs lost her scent). He went in to tell MB who then contacted JR. This caused CR to vomit and he went to bed. From looking at the maps that Btown posted I could see how someone could drive down 11th to the ally where the dumpster is behind 5N, pick her up and go west on 11th and never be seen on camera. IMO it would have to be someone that was at JR's apt.

BBM-Yes-this is what I was trying to say, but you said it better!

 

[VeryVeritas]

Posters keep asking why JR would stick his neck out for CR/MB. I dont see it that way. I think he is covering his own butt. The fact that the party started at his house where alcohol and drugs were consumed implicates him. The fact that MB called JR now has him involved. If MB tells JR that he will say that LS left his apt and went to JR's, how will he explain what happen to her? I think they knew there were no camers around and therefore how could anyone contest their story. It would better for them to devise a story that clears all of them and stick to it. Otherwise it becomes finger pointing. So far they are right. We are two years into her missing and have not been able to prove there story wrong. I personally think she never made it to 5N. I think CR realized she expired somewhere around the dumpster(where dogs lost her scent). He went in to tell MB who then contacted JR. This caused CR to vomit and he went to bed. From looking at the maps that Btown posted I could see how someone could drive down 11th to the ally where the dumpster is behind 5N, pick her up and go west on 11th and never be seen on camera. IMO it would have to be someone that was at JR's apt.

Agreed. As odd as it may seem to some folks, even as CR was with LS and likely present when she perished, JR would likely be held accountable for whatever was in her system because he hosted the party. If not criminally, certainly civilly. So, not only would he craft his fine story to cover his a$$... he would also be likely involved with the disposal. It's also conceivable that JR put fear into CR / MB of their potential culpability to create a hysteria such that they agreed to the scheme to rely on JR's story and to dispose of the body. For me lately a huge loose end is JR admitting that LS had her keycard and fake ID, but no way was that stuff in her hands after she lost everything else especially when she fell unconscious losing her wallet and keys. If these 2 items were on her person, then the only way JR would knwo about them is if he searched her. And he would have done that why?

 

[VeryVeritas]

BBM: yes, It was CR. there is no mystery man, according to the PI.

My guess is that LE likely does have more evidence we don't know about. (Maybe even video surveillance of a vehicle they identified) But so far, there's no indication that anything points to the witness or anyone else who has not been named as a POI.

that's an interesting thought... that LE may have identified a likely vehicle... but not until after everyone had cleared out of town. Just because they think a certain vehicle might be involved, doesn't mean they know where it went that night. And then the vehicle may have been cleaned or changed hands. If LS were wrapped up good, the only evidence in the vehicle might have been a scent.

 

[Jacobite]

OK. So, they see a vehicle on Walnut between 9th and 10th. They are looking for a certain person's car. Is it that guys car? That is the important question because the answer could significantly change what we think might have happened.

 

[AbbeyR]

that's an interesting thought... that LE may have identified a likely vehicle... but not until after everyone had cleared out of town. Just because they think a certain vehicle might be involved, doesn't mean they know where it went that night. And then the vehicle may have been cleaned or changed hands. If LS were wrapped up good, the only evidence in the vehicle might have been a scent.

Right. Only CR's car was searched, IIRC. JR hightailed it out of town, and I don't remember hearing anything about MB's car. I find it puzzling that the only car that LE tried to identify was the white truck, and even then, it seemed (IMO) that they were looking for them as potential witnesses not suspects. So were no other cars caught on surveillance in that area in that specific time frame? Or was there another car (or cars) that were identified, so LE didn't need to share this with the public?

The possibility that a POI's car was identified on surveillance video at some point in the early morning would be a pretty good reason to lawyer up and shut up immediately, IMO, but not enough reason for LE to be able to do much about it. Especially if the person has already left the state.

On the other hand, someone left with Lauren and LE obviously hasn't solved the case, so I don't have a lot of faith in security camera footage as being key to this case...

On the topic of cars and POI -- Another thing on my top 10 list of things I would like to know: Remember "Ray" said JR didn't have his car that night? Was this true, or not? If JR lied about this, that would obviously be a red flag. But if it was true, it raises other potential possibilities. Did he have access to another car and did he tell LE about it? And if he didn't, hypothetically, this would mean that if he desperately needed a car or a ride for someone, he would have to borrow one or get help --Another potential reason why the 3 POI at 5 N could have all become involved or have something to hide... I really hope MB's car was searched too.

Random thoughts.

 

[Dixie811]

On the topic of cars and POI -- Another thing on my top 10 list of things I would like to know: Remember "Ray" said JR didn't have his car that night? Was this true, or not? If JR lied about this, that would obviously be a red flag. But if it was true, it raises other potential possibilities. Did he have access to another car and did he tell LE about it? And if he didn't, hypothetically, this would mean that if he desperately needed a car or a ride for someone, he would have to borrow one or get help --Another potential reason why the 3 POI at 5 N could have all become involved or have something to hide... I really hope MB's car was searched too.

Random thoughts.

Great post, Abbey. Snipped for space.

There has also been talk of JR having one or more out-of-town guests staying with him. There has been speculation about whether these persons were present at JR's apartment and what they were doing-- i.e. were they upstairs asleep, had they stayed over at someone else's apartment possibly for a hookup, etc.

If JR truly did not have access to his car, perhaps there was a scenario like... a guest who was asleep/passed out upstairs had left their car keys on the kitchen counter? Most of these kids seem to travel around on foot while partying (avoids the issue of driving drunk)... any guest who had stayed out all night or slept over at another apartment could potentially have also left their car keys at JR's apartment.

Pure speculation on my part, as we really have no details about the activities of any guests that night.

 

[imkeylime]

... On the topic of cars and POI -- Another thing on my top 10 list of things I would like to know: Remember "Ray" said JR didn't have his car that night? Was this true, or not? If JR lied about this, that would obviously be a red flag. But if it was true, it raises other potential possibilities. Did he have access to another car and did he tell LE about it? And if he didn't, hypothetically, this would mean that if he desperately needed a car or a ride for someone, he would have to borrow one or get help --Another potential reason why the 3 POI at 5 N could have all become involved or have something to hide... I really hope MB's car was searched too.

Random thoughts.

Snipped by me. On that site you linked to (http://www.truecrimereport.com/2011/06/lauren_spierer_missing_in_indi.php), there's a comment about LS being picked up by a darker-skinned man, perhaps a friend of a roommate, in a red car.

I view this as a psychic's reflection (for want of a better term), but since it involves a car, I thought I'd pass it on, FWIW.

 

[AbbeyR]

There has also been talk of JR having one or more out-of-town guests staying with him. There has been speculation about whether these persons were present at JR's apartment and what they were doing-- i.e. were they upstairs asleep, had they stayed over at someone else's apartment possibly for a hookup, etc.

If JR truly did not have access to his car, perhaps there was a scenario like... a guest who was asleep/passed out upstairs had left their car keys on the kitchen counter? Most of these kids seem to travel around on foot while partying (avoids the issue of driving drunk)... any guest who had stayed out all night or slept over at another apartment could potentially have also left their car keys at JR's apartment.

Pure speculation on my part, as we really have no details about the activities of any guests that night.

I think that's a possibility too. I've also wondered whether any of the roommates who were out of town had a car there... Based on those conversations on PT, it didn't sound like they were volunteering info to LE... but yeah, this is all speculation.

The one thing we do know is that CR's car was searched. Soon, too. His car, credit cards and phone were searched within a week. This means LE had probable cause for a warrant then, right?

Why only his car?

Why do you guys think it took a week for LE to search CR's car, phone records and credit card info, but a month to search the apartments where the POI themselves said Lauren was last seen?

 

[bx2]

I think that's a possibility too. I've also wondered whether any of the roommates who were out of town had a car there... Based on those conversations on PT, it didn't sound like they were volunteering info to LE... but yeah, this is all speculation.

The one thing we do know is that CR's car was searched. Soon, too. His car, credit cards and phone were searched within a week. This means LE had probable cause for a warrant then, right?

Why only his car?

Why do you guys think it took a week for LE to search CR's car, phone records and credit card info, but a month to search the apartments where the POI themselves said Lauren was last seen?

No need for a warrant if CR allowed the search to take place.

Am I missing something? Why is it assumed that the apartment search caught by reporters on 6/29/11 was the first time they had been searched?

 

[Dixie811]

I think that's a possibility too. I've also wondered whether any of the roommates who were out of town had a car there... Based on those conversations on PT, it didn't sound like they were volunteering info to LE... but yeah, this is all speculation.

The one thing we do know is that CR's car was searched. Soon, too. His car, credit cards and phone were searched within a week. This means LE had probable cause for a warrant then, right?

Why only his car?

Why do you guys think it took a week for LE to search CR's car, phone records and credit card info, but a month to search the apartments where the POI themselves said Lauren was last seen?

BBM- Great point. Very interesting.

Abbey, in your post above you talked about CR's phone/financial records being searched that first week as well as his car. Do you know if the other POI's phone/finances were searched at that time as well, or just CR? It wouldn't seem it would have taken long to get probable cause for JR's info as well seeing as he admitted to being the last individual to see her.

 

[bx2]

On the topic of cars and POI -- Another thing on my top 10 list of things I would like to know: Remember "Ray" said JR didn't have his car that night? Was this true, or not? If JR lied about this, that would obviously be a red flag. But if it was true, it raises other potential possibilities. Did he have access to another car and did he tell LE about it? And if he didn't, hypothetically, this would mean that if he desperately needed a car or a ride for someone, he would have to borrow one or get help --Another potential reason why the 3 POI at 5 N could have all become involved or have something to hide... I really hope MB's car was searched too.

Snipped. I've thought about this for awhile if only because the wording has always seemed strange that he didn't have access to his car. What I'm beginning to wonder is if it may have been the case that JR wasn't living at his place over the summer (wasn't enrolled in classes, all his roommates had gone home) and that he and one or two friends drove back to party for a few days/week. I know that some of my friends and I did this a few times during college (get away from the parents, road trip, etc).

Don't think it really would change much, but sometimes challenging what may otherwise be considered taken for granted might shake something loose.

 

[AbbeyR]

No need for a warrant if CR allowed the search to take place.

Am I missing something? Why is it assumed that the apartment search caught by reporters on 6/29/11 was the first time they had been searched?

It is an assumption -- based on the fact that it was reported that way (and no one corrected it), and of the list of ways that the POI's lawyer claim they cooperated, consenting to a search of their apartments wasn't one of them.

But sure, we have tons of missing info. Who knows!

Re: consent -- That was what I was wondering about. Did he consent to a search of his car but not the apartment? Or did LE have reason to get a quick search warrant in one but not the other? I don't really know how search warrants work, especially when it comes to property/space that belongs to others. And would LE search without a search warrant in a criminal case like this, even if they got consent?

 

[bx2]

It is an assumption -- based on the fact that it was reported that way (and no one corrected it), and of the list of ways that the POI's lawyer claim they cooperated, consenting to a search of their apartments wasn't one of them.

But sure, we have tons of missing info. Who knows!

Re: consent -- That was what I was wondering about. Did he consent to a search of his car but not the apartment? Or did LE have reason to get a quick search warrant in one but not the other? I don't really know how search warrants work, especially when it comes to property/space that belongs to others. And would LE search without a search warrant in a criminal case like this, even if they got consent?

From around the 4:30 mark of the first press briefing:

"…as you might imagine what we've been doing is we've been interviewing everybody that was with her Thursday afternoon, Thursday evening, Friday morning… interviewing them and re-interviewing them. They've, uh, cooperated fully with letting us search their places, search their cars, that's all been done."

Also mentioned here:
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/father-asks-for-more-help-to-find-missing-iu-student

 

[AbbeyR]

Abbey, in your post above you talked about CR's phone/financial records being searched that first week as well as his car. Do you know if the other POI's phone/finances were searched at that time as well, or just CR? It wouldn't seem it would have taken long to get probable cause for JR's info as well seeing as he admitted to being the last individual to see her.

I believe both Chapman and Voyles made vague statements about DR and JR showing LE their phones? but I'm not sure if this meant their records (and finances) were searched too.

I don't remember anything else, and I feel like the lawyers for all the POI have tried to spin their cooperation so much that there's no way they wouldn't mention it if they had voluntarily provided additional info or given consent to search. JMO.

 

[Ros]

Snipped. I've thought about this for awhile if only because the wording has always seemed strange that he didn't have access to his car. What I'm beginning to wonder is if it may have been the case that JR wasn't living at his place over the summer (wasn't enrolled in classes, all his roommates had gone home) and that he and one or two friends drove back to party for a few days/week. I know that some of my friends and I did this a few times during college (get away from the parents, road trip, etc).

Don't think it really would change much, but sometimes challenging what may otherwise be considered taken for granted might shake something loose.

According to "Ray's" post on PT 2011-06-24 13:26:56 -0400 (the one where he said that JR did not have his car that night, nor did he have access to one), JR had not planned to spend the summer in Bloomington, he was just there for partying for a few weeks.

 

[AbbeyR]

Thanks Bx2. I'm so glad to hear the apartments and cars were searched! Phew.

I've always found those early statements confusing, because they implied the POI were cooperating initially, but at the end of that month they seemed to say the opposite, expressing frustration at the lack of cooperation and 'perplexing silence'. Didn't they say only one person had come forward to provide info to LE voluntarily?

 

[bx2]

Thanks Bx2. I'm so glad to hear the apartments and cars were searched! Phew.

I've always found those early statements confusing, because they implied the POI were cooperating initially, but at the end of that month they seemed to say the opposite, expressing frustration at the lack of cooperation and 'perplexing silence'. Didn't they say only one person had come forward to provide info to LE voluntarily?

That sounds familiar, yes. The level of cooperation that LE may have received initially most likely fell off dramatically once lawyers got involved. It's also hard to draw a distinction between the cooperation being publicly discussed to the media with reality. I'm sure there's a bit of finesse in not wanting a POI to feel threatened. Which also reminds me of something else, unsourced, that I recall, was that getting a lawyer hadn't even occurred (to one of the POI's, struggling with details here, maybe JW?) until after the way he felt he was questioned.

 

[imkeylime]

That sounds familiar, yes. The level of cooperation that LE may have received initially most likely fell off dramatically once lawyers got involved. It's also hard to draw a distinction between the cooperation being publicly discussed to the media with reality. I'm sure there's a bit of finesse in not wanting a POI to feel threatened. Which also reminds me of something else, unsourced, that I recall, was that getting a lawyer hadn't even occurred (to one of the POI's, struggling with details here, maybe JW?) until after the way he felt he was questioned.

JMO, but I think you're right about the cooperation level changing with lawyer involvement. Also, I don't think it's that unusual the POIs lawyered up. I expect the POIs' families have corporate legal counsel at their fingertips ... and if questioned, that counsel would advise them to find a criminal lawyer. Also, there's a prominent Rosenbaum in legal circles in MI ... maybe or maybe not related.

I don't think it helped the info flow about LS' disappearance.