Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #2

[Rush4087]

Yes, it was USG which is the podcast arm of Universal Studio Group. I completely understand her stance on not wanting to engage with the press. My only point was, I was "offering something in return", as it were. I've said many times, there is no single road map to dealing with grief or victimhood. But I think if it were me and I pleaded with the press to do everything they could to identify the killer, if a member of said press came to me offering the chance at doing this very thing, I would at least discuss the possibility with them.

@FacelessPodcast, I’m sure it’s a burden for you watching a cold case become an even colder case - all the while thinking you know who murdered the Miyazawa family. The Miyazawa family deserves Justice.

I have a suggestion: why don’t you get USG to pay for a PI to surreptitiously collect an item containing the fingerprints of your POI? Send the item to TMPD (without including the POI’s name) and suggest to TMPD that if there’s a match and they’d like to know who the prints belong to, they could contact you or USG or your legal representatives and inquire. If USG won’t do it, do it yourself.

I don’t think there is anything illegal in collecting an item from somebody’s trash and sending it to TMPD. You are not implicating anybody by name. I don’t see why doing this would be any different than when somebody calls a crime tip line (anonymously or not).

Since it is only fingerprints they would be comparing (initially, anyway), I do not think this would run afoul of any Japanese privacy laws on the use of DNA, DNA databases, and genetic genealogy in solving crimes.

I’m sure TMPD would take no action if there was no match, but if there WAS a match, maybe they would act. I personally would find it hard to believe they would take no action while knowing they have a match.

The Miyazawa family deserves Justice. An Irie may have her reasons for not wanting to allow collection of a dna sample or prints by a third party, but it doesn’t mean forensics can’t still be used to solve the crime. Just work backwards. Plus, if it turns out you were right (and TMPD takes action) you won’t have to continue carrying the burden of thinking only you know. Also might help your podcast get picked up. Seems worth a try to me

All jmo

 

[Charlot123]

Thanks for posting, @Sor Juana. I've spoken about this video before. With all respect to Pat Brown (and ignoring her views on race and politics as best as I can), she makes a lot of claims / guesses. I disagree with many of them. I say this as the person whose work she's leaning on in large parts. She hasn't spoken to the Miyazawa family's relatives. She hasn't spoken to the TMPD lead detective.

Side point: my own personal bugbear, Pat says "he napped on the couch, that's why they call him the Goldilocks Guy" -- for the millionth time, they do not call him this. I described him once as "a nightmarish version of Goldilocks" and people have run with this. Nobody in Japan would know what case is being referred to by the "Goldilocks Killer".

Thank you! I was trying to understand how the heck this killer was related to the Girl and three bears, and could not.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Thank you! I was trying to understand how the heck this killer was related to the Girl and three bears, and could not.

I'm not even sure how far into collective Japanese psyche those old European fairy tales go. @Incoherent?

Not to say that nobody would know what that story is about but I just don't think it would make sense to do that in Japan. In my experience, they tend to refer to cases simply as The Oita Incident. Or the Whatever Incident. Whether you're talking about a bank robbery or a nuclear disaster.

 

[Incoherent]

I'm not even sure how far into collective Japanese psyche those old European fairy tales go. @Incoherent?

Not to say that nobody would know what that story is about but I just don't think it would make sense to do that in Japan. In my experience, they tend to refer to cases simply as The Oita Incident. Or the Whatever Incident. Whether you're talking about a bank robbery or a nuclear disaster.

Completely unknown. Japan has its own culture of tales and old stories but aren’t used in such a sensationalist way.
I believe it was Tsuchida-san (or someone from the TMPD) that mentioned he could not believe someone culturally Japanese could have committed the murder - that is more along the lines of thinking here. People are a collective. The behaviour of the killer post-murder to Japanese people does not seem Japanese at all. Not to say the murder is viewed as normal, but people here pick up on stuff like that behaviour quickly.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

@FacelessPodcast, I’m sure it’s a burden for you watching a cold case become an even colder case - all the while thinking you know who murdered the Miyazawa family. The Miyazawa family deserves Justice.

I have a suggestion: why don’t you get USG to pay for a PI to surreptitiously collect an item containing the fingerprints of your POI? Send the item to TMPD (without including the POI’s name) and suggest to TMPD that if there’s a match and they’d like to know who the prints belong to, they could contact you or USG or your legal representatives and inquire. If USG won’t do it, do it yourself.

I don’t think there is anything illegal in collecting an item from somebody’s trash and sending it to TMPD. You are not implicating anybody by name. I don’t see why doing this would be any different than when somebody calls a crime tip line (anonymously or not).

Since it is only fingerprints they would be comparing (initially, anyway), I do not think this would run afoul of any Japanese privacy laws on the use of DNA, DNA databases, and genetic genealogy in solving crimes.

I’m sure TMPD would take no action if there was no match, but if there WAS a match, maybe they would act. I personally would find it hard to believe they would take no action while knowing they have a match.

The Miyazawa family deserves Justice. An Irie may have her reasons for not wanting to allow collection of a dna sample or prints by a third party, but it doesn’t mean forensics can’t still be used to solve the crime. Just work backwards. Plus, if it turns out you were right (and TMPD takes action) you won’t have to continue carrying the burden of thinking only you know. Also might help your podcast get picked up. Seems worth a try to me

All jmo

Appreciate your ideas! Very difficult to answer this specifically, @Rush4087. But rest assured that I am on it…

 

[Charlot123]

I'm not even sure how far into collective Japanese psyche those old European fairy tales go. @Incoherent?

Not to say that nobody would know what that story is about but I just don't think it would make sense to do that in Japan. In my experience, they tend to refer to cases simply as The Oita Incident. Or the Whatever Incident. Whether you're talking about a bank robbery or a nuclear disaster.

Goldilocks in Japanese might be "how an ojousana and three samurai lost their face"

(Goldilocks violated their privacy, and the three bears mentioned it out loud).

 

[Incoherent]

I’m sure it may be known by a few here already (and especially Nic), but as I mentioned when visiting the house a few times recently that the TMPD presence had gone, it was reported that on October 6th 2023 that 10 male high school students broke into the premises of the Miyazawa house as a “test of courage”, or more locally translated: a dare.
It seems the boys reportedly didn’t enter the house itself but did climb the barriers directly surrounding it before being reported to the police by neighbours.
Sorry I don’t have another source that isn’t Japanese: 世田谷一家殺害事件の現場に高校生１０人侵入…「肝試し感覚」「事件のことはよく知らない」

I feel like as the security of the house lessens as time goes on and it becomes more dilapidated, the demolition of the house will get closer and it may not be too far off from being destroyed unless there are any breakthroughs in the case.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I’m sure it may be known by a few here already (and especially Nic), but as I mentioned when visiting the house a few times recently that the TMPD presence had gone, it was reported that on October 6th 2023 that 10 male high school students broke into the premises of the Miyazawa house as a “test of courage”, or more locally translated: a dare.
It seems the boys reportedly didn’t enter the house itself but did climb the barriers directly surrounding it before being reported to the police neighbours.
Sorry I don’t have another source that isn’t Japanese: 世田谷一家殺害事件の現場に高校生１０人侵入…「肝試し感覚」「事件のことはよく知らない」

I feel like as the security of the house lessens as time goes on and it becomes more dilapidated, the demolition of the house will get closer and it may not be too far off from being destroyed unless there are any breakthroughs in the case.

Thanks for posting, @Incoherent. I think I did at the time (but that may have been Reddit before I got banned for "mentioning my podcast"). I can understand the TMPD stance on this, sadly. I can't imagine any other police force having a constant presence outside a crime scene for 23 years. Given Ann's position against the demolition of the house, particularly. Unfortunately, this will be the natural consequence -- break-ins etc until it catches fire or the next big quake. My feeling is that Setsuko would prefer the house not to be there, I know she found the move to publicise Ann's plea not to demolish from within the home deeply, deeply upsetting. Perhaps a monument would make the most sense. JMO

 

[Incoherent]

Thanks for posting, @Incoherent. I think I did at the time (but that may have been Reddit before I got banned for "mentioning my podcast"). I can understand the TMPD stance on this, sadly. I can't imagine any other police force having a constant presence outside a crime scene for 23 years. Given Ann's position against the demolition of the house, particularly. Unfortunately, this will be the natural consequence -- break-ins etc until it catches fire or the next big quake. My feeling is that Setsuko would prefer the house not to be there, I know she found the move to publicise Ann's plea not to demolish from within the home deeply, deeply upsetting. Perhaps a monument would make the most sense. JMO

There have been a few videos recently I’ve seen that have highlighted the moulding of the house walls and the house falling apart even some years ago.
After all it is a wooden house.
The code of standards in Japan when building houses and apartments are much more stringent than in most other countries and must meet an earthquake resistant code, but in reality the house was built 30+ years ago and has so far withstood many a large quake and typhoon here. It is really only a matter of time without reinforcement or upgrades.
Recently in the Tokyo and Kanagawa area we’ve been experiencing increasingly stronger quakes that could lead to something bigger soon too.
It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if the house is torn down relatively soon, as sad as it may be.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

There have been a few videos recently I’ve seen that have highlighted the moulding of the house walls and the house falling apart even some years ago.
After all it is a wooden house.
The code of standards in Japan when building houses and apartments are much more stringent than in most other countries and must meet an earthquake resistant code, but in reality the house was built 30+ years ago and has so far withstood many a large quake and typhoon here. It is really only a matter of time without reinforcement or upgrades.
Recently in the Tokyo and Kanagawa area we’ve been experiencing increasingly stronger quakes that could lead to something bigger soon too.
It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if the house is torn down relatively soon, as sad as it may be.

Here's hoping I can pay my respects one last time

 

[Incoherent]

Here's hoping I can pay my respects one last time

When you’re back in Japan I’d recommend dusk, that area is very busy during the daytime nowadays. But no police presence does allow a somewhat unfiltered and up close look at the house. It’s really quite something.

 

[fridaybaker]

Nic, I apologize in advance if this has been covered, my memory is going quickly. Do you know, or can you tell us, if your POI is anywhere on the TMPD's radar?

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Forensics have improved so much since 2000. I don't know when the house was last forensically examined, but I do wonder if it might be best to do one last, thorough forensic examination of the entire house to 2024 standards, and then demolish it before it becomes too much of a health hazard.

It stands as a reminder, but without major renovation work it's just going to rot. And without new evidence or a change in Japan's laws, it stands as a reminder that the killer got away with it.

I can only speak to how I would feel; of course others may feel differently. But I think I'd prefer a permanent monument to the family's memory, rather than what is quickly becoming a painful eyesore reminder of the horror of their final moments.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Forensics have improved so much since 2000. I don't know when the house was last forensically examined, but I do wonder if it might be best to do one last, thorough forensic examination of the entire house to 2024 standards, and then demolish it before it becomes too much of a health hazard.

It stands as a reminder, but without major renovation work it's just going to rot. And without new evidence or a change in Japan's laws, it stands as a reminder that the killer got away with it.

I can only speak to how I would feel; of course others may feel differently. But I think I'd prefer a permanent monument to the family's memory, rather than what is quickly becoming a painful eyesore reminder of the horror of their final moments.

I very much agree. The house still standing somehow feels like a limbo. Then again, if its standing forces the TMPD to keep the Miyazawa family front and centre, then I'm all for it standing until it falls. They've said time and again that they will never give up and we have to take that at face value. If the Chief's dedication to this case is anything to go by, they'll search for the killer forever.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

I very much agree. The house still standing somehow feels like a limbo. Then again, if its standing forces the TMPD to keep the Miyazawa family front and centre, then I'm all for it standing until it falls. They've said time and again that they will never give up and we have to take that at face value. If the Chief's dedication to this case is anything to go by, they'll search for the killer forever.

The main reason I'm not sure about leaving it standing is that it would be horrendous if the house becomes dangerous, and somebody else is hurt there. That would be no way to honour the Miyazawas.

 

[Dr. Snoop]

The use of DNA in police investigations.

As criminal cases have become more complicated, Japan's law enforcement officials are promoting the use of more sophisticated technologies, such as DNA analysis, in the course of criminal investigations in order to verify facts with objective evidence.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

As criminal cases have become more complicated, Japan's law enforcement officials are promoting the use of more sophisticated technologies, such as DNA analysis, in the course of criminal investigations in order to verify facts with objective evidence.

To be clear; the TMPD are able to use DNA in their investigations. And that is to compare it to the existing DNA database. If there is a match, then they have their culprit.

That’s as far as DNA can go due to the lack of a legal framework for any other use. This is why Chief Tsuchita is campaigning for the laws to change. If the TMPD were able to use newer DNA investigative techniques such as genetic genealogy, there would be no need for him to do so.

 

[Dr. Snoop]

None of this does anything in the way of bolstering the suggestion that the killer had a developmental disorder. That he was in a frenzy is reasonable to conclude due to the over-kill. But it is not certain. He could have simply been driven by rage. Equally, he may have been calm and collected. This is clearly another possible reading from his actions.

If the perp entered the house with a premeditated plan to kill anyone he encountered, it suggests he may have underlying mental health issues. Rage typically involves a reactionary surge of adrenaline rather than a premeditated state of mind. While it's possible for aggression to escalate after the initial act of violence, it's difficult to imagine a calm individual repeatedly stabbing a dead woman with a knife or inflicting severe harm on a child. This behaviour doesn't align with a composed demeanour akin to that of a robot. Rage cannot explain the premeditated nature of the violence, especially if the murderer exhibited a calculated approach or continued his violent behaviour in a [allegedly] calm and composed manner afterwards.

Once again, this situation highlights the need for input from a clinical psychologist, which unfortunately appears to be unavailable.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Nic, I apologize in advance if this has been covered, my memory is going quickly. Do you know, or can you tell us, if your POI is anywhere on the TMPD's radar?

Can’t answer with 100% certainty but would be willing to bet that he is nowhere near it

 

[fridaybaker]

Nothing to move the investigation along here, but thinking about Nic’s description of his POI as “arrogant”. If so, it would sure fit into a scenario as this. Many, if not most, 18 year-olds are ill equipped emotionally to deal with the blows that life throws at one, but if this young guy had to confront a devastating rejection (and let’s face it, a romantic rejection at this age can be overwhelming to the soul and psyche) and on top of that has never been told “no” before, thinks he’s entitled, etc., I can see how this could play out. If he’s arrogant, he likely thinks he’s owed, and when he’s rebuffed, “somebody’s got to pay”.

I also agree that this is just the type of scenario wherein he may never commit murder again. As he ages, he’s better able to deal with the pains and affronts and all the other garbage that life is so full of. Oddly enough, this “mistake”, for him, was likely part of his growth process, just like so many of our mistakes in young life are. His was just on a massively different scale, because he was massively immature, and massively more entitled than most of us.

Whether or not Nic’s particular POI is “the one”, the scenario in general is starting to look more and more like a very good fit all the way around.