Jim, Tammy Faye Bakker's Son Has Punk Ministry
- Thread starter Beyond Belief
- Start date
cappuccina
Former Member
...and now it seems to be gone...
windovervocalcords
Former Member
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2005
- Messages
- 2,189
- Reaction score
- 0
That brings up a question. I have been surprised that its ok for posters to publically post prayers from their traditions here, holy pictures etc.tybee204 said:
That's ok? There have been alot of threads--da vinci code for example that had alot of religious content to it.
I even remember several other faith threads. How is this different?
It also seems perfectly acceptable here to criticize Muslims enmasses mercilessly yet the Christian sensitivity is more supported.
It appears to me.
People's signature picture is a personal expression not a condemnation of the beliefs of others. The Jury room where prayer threads are present is considered a social forum. Members are free to participate or not.windovervocalcords said:
The Religious content and argument in this forum and others has been lax as of late because Staff has been dealing with alot of real life issues. I have been sick, Beebs lost her daughter etc.
Well playtime is over and posts of an insulting/derogatory nature will be deleted and the member timed out.
Anyone wanting to pray or spread the word go to your Church, your Temple, or whatever your house of Worship of choice is.
Anyone wanting to condemn or insult a Religion find another forum to do it on.
windovervocalcords
Former Member
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2005
- Messages
- 2,189
- Reaction score
- 0
Thats clear.tybee204 said:
Thank you.
Jeana (DP)
Former Member
Tammy and Jim Baker deserve to rot in hell for the things they did. I don't wish death on anyone, but she's got a lot to answer for. If I were her, I'd be scared about where I might end up.
Dark Knight
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2004
- Messages
- 21,649
- Reaction score
- 82
C'mon, Jeana, tell us how you REALLY feel!Jeana (DP) said:
:crazy:Jeana (DP)
Former Member
Dark Knight said:C'mon, Jeana, tell us how you REALLY feel!
Sorry! Didn't mean to be so vague.
windovervocalcords
Former Member
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2005
- Messages
- 2,189
- Reaction score
- 0
Tammy Faye is dying of cancer.
I loved her kindness and naivety. She was tolerant about gays and AIDS.
I hope that whatever suffering she has as she dies helps her to purify any harm she may have done in her life so that she has a fortunate afterlife.
May all who suffer be quickly relieved of their suffering. When we die may we all be remembered for our positive qualities as well as our human failings.
"There's times when I just have to quit thinking . . . and the only way I can quit thinking is by shopping."
Tammy Faye Bakker
I loved her kindness and naivety. She was tolerant about gays and AIDS.
I hope that whatever suffering she has as she dies helps her to purify any harm she may have done in her life so that she has a fortunate afterlife.
May all who suffer be quickly relieved of their suffering. When we die may we all be remembered for our positive qualities as well as our human failings.
"There's times when I just have to quit thinking . . . and the only way I can quit thinking is by shopping."
Tammy Faye Bakker
Jeana (DP)
Former Member
Yeah, I can see why being inside Tammy's own head must be a nightmare. If I had to sit around and think about the millions of people I screwed out of their money, I'd have a hard time being alone with myself as well. Here's just a bit of information for those of who who have been warmed by the passing of time:
By the early 1980s the Bakkers had built Heritage USA (in Fort Mill, south of Charlotte), then the third most successful theme park in the US, and a satellite system to distribute their network 24 hours a day across the country. Annual contributions requested from viewers were estimated to exceed $1,000,000 a week, with proceeds to go to expanding the theme park and mission of PTL. Eventually, Jerry Falwell with the backing of a $20,000,000 drive took control of the PTL.[1]
Between 1984 and 1987, the Bakkers received annual salaries of $200,000 each and Jim awarded himself over $4,000,000 in bonuses. Their assets at that time included a $600,000 house in Palm Springs, four condominiums in California, and a Rolls Royce[citation needed]. In their success, the Bakkers took conspicuous consumption to an unusual level for a non-profit organization. PTL once spent $100,000 for a private jet to fly the Bakkers' clothing across the country. It also once spent $100 for cinnamon rolls because the Bakkers wanted the smell of them in their hotel room [citation needed]. According to Frances FitzGerald in an April 1987 New Yorker article, "They epitomized the excesses of the 1980s; the greed, the love of glitz, and the shamelessness; which in their case was so pure as to almost amount to a kind of innocence."
On March 19, 1987, following threats of the revelation of the payoff to former secretary Jessica Hahn, whom Bakker's staff members had paid $265,000 to keep secret her allegation that he had raped her, Bakker resigned from PTL. Jerry Falwell called Bakker a liar, an embezzler, a sexual deviant, and "the greatest scab and cancer on the face of Christianity in 2,000 years of church history."
Financial irregularities in the PTL organization led to another scandal. From 1984 to 1987, Bakker and his PTL associates had sold "lifetime memberships" for $1,000 or more that entitled buyers to a three-night stay annually at a luxury hotel at Heritage USA. According to the prosecution at Bakker's later fraud trial, tens of thousands of memberships had been sold, but only one 500-room hotel was ever completed. Bakker sold more "exclusive" partnerships than could be accommodated, while raising more than twice the money needed to build the actual hotel. A good deal of the money went into Heritage USA's operating expenses, and Bakker kept $3,700,000 for himself. Bakker, who apparently made all of the financial decisions for the PTL organization, kept two sets of books to conceal the accounting irregularities. Reporters from the newspaper The Charlotte Observer, led by Charles Shepard, discovered and exposed the financial wrongdoings. Heritage USA is now partly abandoned, with many of the subcontractors who did the building still waiting to be paid.
Conviction and prison
Bakker was indicted on federal charges of fraud, tax evasion, and racketeering. In 1989, after trial in Charlotte, Judge Robert Potter convicted Bakker of fraud and conspiring to commit fraud and sentenced him to 45 years in federal prison. Bakker's associate, Richard Dortch, senior vice-president of PTL and associate pastor of Heritage Village Church, also went to prison. In 1992, Bakker and his wife Tammy Faye were divorced at her request. * * *
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bakker
How Tammy escaped a long prison sentence is beyond me. But, I assume she'll get what's due her before too long.
By the early 1980s the Bakkers had built Heritage USA (in Fort Mill, south of Charlotte), then the third most successful theme park in the US, and a satellite system to distribute their network 24 hours a day across the country. Annual contributions requested from viewers were estimated to exceed $1,000,000 a week, with proceeds to go to expanding the theme park and mission of PTL. Eventually, Jerry Falwell with the backing of a $20,000,000 drive took control of the PTL.[1]
Between 1984 and 1987, the Bakkers received annual salaries of $200,000 each and Jim awarded himself over $4,000,000 in bonuses. Their assets at that time included a $600,000 house in Palm Springs, four condominiums in California, and a Rolls Royce[citation needed]. In their success, the Bakkers took conspicuous consumption to an unusual level for a non-profit organization. PTL once spent $100,000 for a private jet to fly the Bakkers' clothing across the country. It also once spent $100 for cinnamon rolls because the Bakkers wanted the smell of them in their hotel room [citation needed]. According to Frances FitzGerald in an April 1987 New Yorker article, "They epitomized the excesses of the 1980s; the greed, the love of glitz, and the shamelessness; which in their case was so pure as to almost amount to a kind of innocence."
On March 19, 1987, following threats of the revelation of the payoff to former secretary Jessica Hahn, whom Bakker's staff members had paid $265,000 to keep secret her allegation that he had raped her, Bakker resigned from PTL. Jerry Falwell called Bakker a liar, an embezzler, a sexual deviant, and "the greatest scab and cancer on the face of Christianity in 2,000 years of church history."
Financial irregularities in the PTL organization led to another scandal. From 1984 to 1987, Bakker and his PTL associates had sold "lifetime memberships" for $1,000 or more that entitled buyers to a three-night stay annually at a luxury hotel at Heritage USA. According to the prosecution at Bakker's later fraud trial, tens of thousands of memberships had been sold, but only one 500-room hotel was ever completed. Bakker sold more "exclusive" partnerships than could be accommodated, while raising more than twice the money needed to build the actual hotel. A good deal of the money went into Heritage USA's operating expenses, and Bakker kept $3,700,000 for himself. Bakker, who apparently made all of the financial decisions for the PTL organization, kept two sets of books to conceal the accounting irregularities. Reporters from the newspaper The Charlotte Observer, led by Charles Shepard, discovered and exposed the financial wrongdoings. Heritage USA is now partly abandoned, with many of the subcontractors who did the building still waiting to be paid.
Conviction and prison
Bakker was indicted on federal charges of fraud, tax evasion, and racketeering. In 1989, after trial in Charlotte, Judge Robert Potter convicted Bakker of fraud and conspiring to commit fraud and sentenced him to 45 years in federal prison. Bakker's associate, Richard Dortch, senior vice-president of PTL and associate pastor of Heritage Village Church, also went to prison. In 1992, Bakker and his wife Tammy Faye were divorced at her request. * * *
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bakker
How Tammy escaped a long prison sentence is beyond me. But, I assume she'll get what's due her before too long.
windovervocalcords
Former Member
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2005
- Messages
- 2,189
- Reaction score
- 0
"Forgiveness is a choice. And it's a choice you ask God to help you keep. It doesn't happen overnight. Forgiveness is an ongoing battle.
It's the only way you can have true happiness because unforgiveness eats you up inside. It's like an acid and it will truly make you sick. I think unforgiveness has been more people's problem than anything in the world. Because when you see somebody you are angry at, your tummy tenses up, your blood pressure goes up, your fists clench, you go into a different mode. And that's not good for the body. So people should forgive just to save themselves.
" I think being gay is just being a person who has a different thought on life. They're just people. I don't think that God categorizes people. I went to Disneyland one time, and it rained -- its so awful when it rains at Disneyland -- and everyone disappeared inside. And when the rain stopped and everybody came out, every single person had yellow raincoats on. You couldn't tell the fat from the thin, the rich from the poor. You couldn't tell anyone from anyone else. And that day I looked up and I said, God, I think this is how you see us, all in yellow raincoats, and only you have the permission to look under those yellow raincoats.
Tammy Faye Bakker
It's the only way you can have true happiness because unforgiveness eats you up inside. It's like an acid and it will truly make you sick. I think unforgiveness has been more people's problem than anything in the world. Because when you see somebody you are angry at, your tummy tenses up, your blood pressure goes up, your fists clench, you go into a different mode. And that's not good for the body. So people should forgive just to save themselves.
" I think being gay is just being a person who has a different thought on life. They're just people. I don't think that God categorizes people. I went to Disneyland one time, and it rained -- its so awful when it rains at Disneyland -- and everyone disappeared inside. And when the rain stopped and everybody came out, every single person had yellow raincoats on. You couldn't tell the fat from the thin, the rich from the poor. You couldn't tell anyone from anyone else. And that day I looked up and I said, God, I think this is how you see us, all in yellow raincoats, and only you have the permission to look under those yellow raincoats.
Tammy Faye Bakker
Let's hope their son and daughter learned many valuable lessons from the older Bakker's escapades!
BTW, I feel pity for anyone dying a slow death of cancer, past bad acts or not. I don't know where she's going to end up in the end, but in the meantime, my heart goes out to her and her family. It's a tough thing to go through.
(ducking)
P.S. Now that I think about it, strike "anyone" in my first sentence. Murderers like Peterson, Duncan, et al can die a slow, painful death anytime and I won't feel an ounce of pity towards them.
(ducking again)
BTW, I feel pity for anyone dying a slow death of cancer, past bad acts or not. I don't know where she's going to end up in the end, but in the meantime, my heart goes out to her and her family. It's a tough thing to go through.
(ducking)
P.S. Now that I think about it, strike "anyone" in my first sentence. Murderers like Peterson, Duncan, et al can die a slow, painful death anytime and I won't feel an ounce of pity towards them.
(ducking again)
windovervocalcords
Former Member
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2005
- Messages
- 2,189
- Reaction score
- 0
"The Bible says Judge not lest ye be judged. Our lives are supposed to be hospitals, not courtrooms. Religious people today are courts and juries. When it comes down to it, Jesus died on the cross so that we could learn to love others like we love ourselves, not judge them or persecute them. Yet these people today who are supposed to be Christians are the first ones to pick up The Globe, The Star and The National Enquirer. And they are supposed to be good Christians?"
Tammy Faye Messner (formerly Bakker)
Here's what her son has to say about her:
[font=arial,helvetica]JAY BAKKER : Yes, its very hard. It nearly breaks my heart when I hug her. I can feel her bones. But shes beautiful. My mom is so beautiful to me. And, you know, people have said so many mean things about my mother in the past. And, you know, I really dont give a damn, because I love my mom. And she is just a wonderful, beautiful woman. And she has encouraged me not to give up, because a lot of people have told me, oh, you should give up. Youre a heretic. Oh, you shouldnt preach. http://www.spcm.org/Journal/spip.php?article4736[/font]
Tammy Faye is dying. Her own words show the wisdom, love and compassion she has. She does not express much anger. This leads me to believe that she will have a fortunate afterlife. May we all be so lucky to have no anger in our hearts but only love, compassion, sympathetic joy, and wisdom in each moment of our lives and especially at the time of our death.
Wind
Tammy Faye Messner (formerly Bakker)
Here's what her son has to say about her:
[font=arial,helvetica]JAY BAKKER : Yes, its very hard. It nearly breaks my heart when I hug her. I can feel her bones. But shes beautiful. My mom is so beautiful to me. And, you know, people have said so many mean things about my mother in the past. And, you know, I really dont give a damn, because I love my mom. And she is just a wonderful, beautiful woman. And she has encouraged me not to give up, because a lot of people have told me, oh, you should give up. Youre a heretic. Oh, you shouldnt preach. http://www.spcm.org/Journal/spip.php?article4736[/font]
Tammy Faye is dying. Her own words show the wisdom, love and compassion she has. She does not express much anger. This leads me to believe that she will have a fortunate afterlife. May we all be so lucky to have no anger in our hearts but only love, compassion, sympathetic joy, and wisdom in each moment of our lives and especially at the time of our death.
Wind
Jeana (DP)
Former Member
windovervocalcords said:
I'm not sure why she should be the one whose angry. What about all the people she helped rip off? Maybe she should include them in her will. After all, she's about to learn you can't take it with you. Maybe she's tried to make peace with God, but she's got a lot to atone for. Don't know if there's enough time. She has had a better life than she deserved. If she ended up angry on top of it, then I would despise her even more.
windovervocalcords
Former Member
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2005
- Messages
- 2,189
- Reaction score
- 0
Perhaps I should not have said "Tammy Faye does not express much anger" to say that I have never heard her express a word of anger.
For the record, it was her husband, Jim Bakker that was convicted of accounting fraud and was shown to have an affair with his secretary. Tammy Faye divorced him. Some judged her harshly for not standing by her man. I always thought Jim Bakker was a snake oil salesman but Tammy Faye I think was naive.
She seems to have a shopping addiction. We all have "something". At least she doesn't seem to have a mean bone in her body.
Her own words are quite profound. And I posted some of them previously.
I think when she dies, she will die peacefully and rest in the profound absolute nature of Love. We should all be so fortunate to practice profound forgiveness, and to die in peace, holding no grudges toward any living being.
For the record, it was her husband, Jim Bakker that was convicted of accounting fraud and was shown to have an affair with his secretary. Tammy Faye divorced him. Some judged her harshly for not standing by her man. I always thought Jim Bakker was a snake oil salesman but Tammy Faye I think was naive.
She seems to have a shopping addiction. We all have "something". At least she doesn't seem to have a mean bone in her body.
Her own words are quite profound. And I posted some of them previously.
I think when she dies, she will die peacefully and rest in the profound absolute nature of Love. We should all be so fortunate to practice profound forgiveness, and to die in peace, holding no grudges toward any living being.
BirdieBoo
New Member
I watched the show this morning on the sundance channel.
Its a documentary style series about Jay Bakker. It was Jim Bakker, the husband, who was convicted of fraud, and not Tammy Faye. Jim has a new wife and a new TV ministry. He would not return his son's phone calls.
The son, Jay Bakker seems like a really honest-down-to-earth individual. And he loves his dad (despite everything) and was hurt that his dad will not return his phone calls.
Watching that show I said, I feel sorry for that guy, he has a sociopath for a dad.
If you have the Sundance Channel, its on Sundance on demand, its free on our cable system.
Its a documentary style series about Jay Bakker. It was Jim Bakker, the husband, who was convicted of fraud, and not Tammy Faye. Jim has a new wife and a new TV ministry. He would not return his son's phone calls.
The son, Jay Bakker seems like a really honest-down-to-earth individual. And he loves his dad (despite everything) and was hurt that his dad will not return his phone calls.
Watching that show I said, I feel sorry for that guy, he has a sociopath for a dad.
If you have the Sundance Channel, its on Sundance on demand, its free on our cable system.
Lauren
Former Member
I remember the Paint the Lady (PTL) scandal. Although I remember her makeup and I saw her on the VH1 house thing where old celebs hang out and thought she was a hoot. Everyone deserves to die in peace. No one needs pain. Life is hard enough with mistakes we make. I wish her well. Despite what they may have done.