jury is out until Wednesday 21 March: general discussion thread

[K.Scarpetta]

It was TLM's SECOND interview with Smyth that TLM said MR killed Tori.

Does anyone remember when the media reported or when it became public knowledge that MR had another girlfriend. I am curious if they are close together the date of the second interview and finding out about the new girlfriend.

 

[Wondergirl]

Since the jury was presented with 5 videos, it must be incorrect to say there were "2 interviews". I am not sure if it is semantics, or assumptions, or the way the evidence is being represented on Twitter or what, but, at this point I am thoroughly confused.

I understood that TLM "originally" accused MTR of the murder. LE arrested him. Then the charges were upgraded on her. We never knew that she changed her statements to reflect what is ultimately a confession to murder, I don't believe.

I guess what it comes down to, ultimately, is was MTR there? Is there other corroborating evidence?

TLM is a self-confessed murderer. Really, in the end, how good is her word? At least she has shown some remorse. That's all I can say. Hopefully the truth will prevail.

 

[flipflop]

The crown did say that the jury does not need to determine who did what!!!!! I guess that is because no one can figure that out and it does not matter as they are both guilty for being there when VS was raped and murdered!

AM980_Court
AM980.ca
Crown explains that helping somebody commit an offense makes them equally as guilty as the person who committed the crime.

#Rafferty -crown: at end of trial not necessary or essential who did what, who inflicted trauma. Your task to decide if they acted together

 

[~n/t~]

May 20, 2009: Two arrests are made. Michael Thomas C.S. Rafferty, 28, and Terri-Lynne McClintic, 18, appear in court. Both are charged with abduction. Rafferty is charged with murdering Stafford on April 8. McClintic is charged with knowingly aiding and enabling Rafferty. Rafferty and McClintic are scheduled to appear in court on May 28 in Woodstock.


July 21, 2009: Ontario Provincial Police confirm that human remains found in a secluded country field two days earlier have been "positively identified" as those of Stafford. Her remains were found by a veteran police investigator searching on his own in a rural field about 500 metres off Concession No. 6, just east of Mount Forest, Ont., about 130 kilometres northwest of Toronto.

April 30, 2010: McClintic pleads guilty to first-degree murder in a Woodstock courtroom. She apologizes to the family and is sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole for 25 years. Her plea is subject to a strict publication ban.


December 9, 2010: The publication ban is partially lifted after the Supreme Court refuses to hear an application to extend it. It's revealed that McClintic pleaded guilty months earlier.


http://www.globaltvedmonton.com/pages/story.aspx?id=6442589956

Almost a year later, she allegedly confesses to murdering Tori, imo.

 

[dilbert]

Since the jury was presented with 5 videos, it must be incorrect to say there were "2 interviews". I am not sure if it is semantics, or assumptions, or the way the evidence is bSeing represented on Twitter or what, but, at this point I am thoroughly confused.

I understood that TLM "originally" accused MTR of the murder. LE arrested him. Then the charges were upgraded on her. We never knew that she changed her statements to reflect what is ultimately a confession to murder, I don't believe.

I guess what it comes down to, ultimately, is was MTR there? Is there other corroborating evidence?

TLM is a self-confessed murderer. Really, in the end, how good is her word? At least she has shown some remorse. That's all I can say. Hopefully the truth will prevail.

The jury was shown 5 segments of one (the same) interview, according to Adrienne Morrow, it was TLM's second interview with Smyth.

MOO

 

[~n/t~]

IMO, TLM was expecting a plea deal. She never got it. She confesses hoping MR will get off. He doesn't and here we are today.

Both cry for themselves in court. Doomed. Life over. No conjugal visits. Where's the kleenex box? I forgot my :moo:

 

[swedie]

I just wanted to say that the cause of death was noted already. The cause of death was blunt force trauma to the head - by the hammer. This was pointed out by TLM, and by the Crown already, and will be confirmed by the ME at some point, I'm sure. Thats my :twocents: worth - that the ME will testify to that. We don't know that yet for a fact. But we DO know that the Crown and TLM have both stated that the cause of death was hammer blows to the poor girl's head.

In addition, I wanted to point out that we've already heard that (sadly!) Tori was ALIVE when her rib was fractured, and liver lacerated. The ME would know this because of the processes a living body goes through when it sustains a fracture (it has to do with the process of inflamation). There would be tell tale signs in the organs that had to do with oxygenation, chemicals released by the body etc - things that would NOT have taken place if the body were already deceased when the rib was fractured.

You can read more about the forensics behind how they would have determined if she were alive or already dead when the rib fracture and liver laceration happened HERE:
http://writersforensicsblog.wordpress.com/category/blood-analysis/

The point I made and as I ":moo:" These issues each would cause a person to die: shock and hemorrhage. Again, :moo: is MR's sexual assault of Tori alone would cause these outcomes, (whether penial or otherwise) and "if" Tori had been going through either one or both of these traumas, MR is to blame for her death. The hammer came into play after the damage was done. It is fact that she was struck with the hammer yes, that brought death on more suddenly and caused the obvious damage. In my honest opinion, I don't believe it really matters who swung the hammer (as the Crown made clear in his opening),other then to show who was more wicked and evil of the two involved. Death was upon Tori and there was no hope for Tori's survival after the sexual assault by MR. Also, we do not know what else took place in MR's car. MR could have punched Tori repeatedly in the head or elsewhere causing damage, or choked her to unconsciousness. Unfortunately he would be the only one who could tell us, and I highly doubt <modsnip> will every admit to doing anything wrong. HTH and all my honest opinion on this matter.

 

[nursebeeme]

Please do not post about topics that have not been testified to in the trial thus far. Please do not discuss who you are ignoring and who you are not. And last but not least, everyone take a quick peek at the rules again..


eta: this includes name calling on both sides including the defendant

:nurse:

 

[antiquegirl]

If there is still confusion about when the videos seen in court today took place, they were all snippets of one video from the same interrogation on May 24, 2009.

But one key piece of business had been accomplished: The jury of nine women and three men watched five segments from the videotaped “confession’’ that Terri-Lynne McClintic gave OPP Det. Sgt. James Smyth on May 24, 2009.

http://www.thestar.com/news/article...-to-judge-terri-lynne-mcclintic-s-credibility

 

[KMouse]

Brought forward from the Mar 16 trial thread:
Kittymama: <snipped>I find it strange because buying garbage bags and a hammer and having everything ready was apparently his idea. Also, how did she get the hammer out of his trunk in her rage? I would think she wouldn't have the presence of mind to do that".

So...

she goes into a rage. How did she get the trunk open? Keys? Who had the keys?
Is she focused enough that she goes to get the keys from him?
Is she focused enough that she get the keys and opens the trunk to remove the hammer and garbage bags?
Is she focused enough to get the bags and put them over Tori's head?


Either you are in this rage or you are not. TLM described it in a way that we were supposed to think she had no control over her actions.

I would think that if you are in a rage you would do the deed first and worry about getting stuff out of the trunk of the car later.

I'm not buying her annodated version of events.

 

[~n/t~]

LE had both their numbers back on May 20, 2009.

She pleaded guilty. One down.

Next up. Plea = Not guilty. Ha!

Goes to trial. Evidence will prove he was there, he committed the crime and he murdered Tori.

:moo:

 

[swedie]

Rest in peace pretty little Angel. You will never be forgotten. I pray when parole time is due, the horrors of your demise will be awakened and no parole will ever be granted. MHO.

 

[maxfactor]

Rest in peace pretty little Angel. You will never be forgotten. I pray when parole time is due, the horrors of your demise will be awakened and no parole will ever be granted. MHO.

Swedie that's a beautiful picture!! Tori was a beautiful little girl.

 

[antiquegirl]

Interesting reaction from RS in this video when he is asked whether he thinks Tori was targeted for abduction - around 3:02.

http://www.lfpress.com/video/raw-video:-day-eight-comments-from-rodney-stafford/1513188803001#.T2OMp08Z7-g.twitter

 

[nonfictionrocks]

Interesting reaction from RS in this video when he is asked whether he thinks Tori was targeted for abduction - around 3:02.

http://www.lfpress.com/video/raw-video:-day-eight-comments-from-rodney-stafford/1513188803001#.T2OMp08Z7-g.twitter

AG, IMO Rodney does not sound all that convinced Tori wasn't targeted despite TLM testifying that MTR said he wanted someone younger.

 

[nursebeeme]

Doh I totally missed it, thinking it was a general statement lol . Sorry goes back to corner and rereads Thank you

you didn't miss it! (I changed the color right after you posted that)
:escape:

 

[iPhoenix]

The point I made and as I ":moo:" These issues each would cause a person to die: shock and hemorrhage. Again, :moo: is MR's sexual assault of Tori alone would cause these outcomes, (whether penial or otherwise) and "if" Tori had been going through either one or both of these traumas, MR is to blame for her death. The hammer came into play after the damage was done. It is fact that she was struck with the hammer yes, that brought death on more suddenly and caused the obvious damage. In my honest opinion, I don't believe it really matters who swung the hammer (as the Crown made clear in his opening),other then to show who was more wicked and evil of the two involved. Death was upon Tori and there was no hope for Tori's survival after the sexual assault by MR. Also, we do not know what else took place in MR's car. MR could have punched Tori repeatedly in the head or elsewhere causing damage, or choked her to unconsciousness. Unfortunately he would be the only one who could tell us, and I highly doubt <modsnip> will every admit to doing anything wrong. HTH and all my honest opinion on this matter.

Not every sexual assault victim dies as a result of their attack. There are several living victims of the Scarborough Rapist for example. And yes children, even younger than age 8 have been sexually assaulted and lived through it. Its got to be a horrific experience without a doubt. I'm sure the emotional scars would be awful to bear - but still, many live. The Crown has already stated, that sexual assault was NOT the cause of death - I believe it was awful but if that was ALL that had happened to Tori, I believe she could have lived through it. I think the forensics of this case will show us more than TLM ever will reveal even under oath. And I believe the Crown when they say that forensics will show that the cause of death was blunt force trauma - from the hammer.

I'm not sure why every post is required to show that the post is the author's opinion only, but for the record -- MOO (loud and clear)

 

[nonfictionrocks]

you didn't miss it! (I changed the color right after you posted that)
:escape:

Nursebeeme, in regards to the title of this thread, the jury is out until Wednesday 22 March. Can you have it change, thanks!

 

[swedie]

They kidnapped her.

He raped her.

She killed her.

That&#8217;s what McClintic says now; is adamant about it. That&#8217;s not what she said in a tear-sodden interrogation three years ago.

McClintic: &#8220;I&#8217;m not really sure. I don&#8217;t know to tell you the truth.&#8221;

To tell you the truth &#8230;

http://www.thestar.com/news/article...-to-judge-terri-lynne-mcclintic-s-credibility

 

[JayFriend]

Here is something that just occurred to me, are both MR and TLM free of all drug addictions now? Does the jury know?

Clearly, they were both high at the time of the crime, but what happened when they were in custody? We know that oxy is as addictive and hard to quit as heroin (or tobacco, for that matter), so what happens when an addict is in jail? do they go cold turkey, or does the taxpayer put them on methadone maintenance? From what I've read, methadone is just as addictive as the drugs it replaces with no end in sight. It's been a long time since they both went into custody. Would they be "cured" now, or just on another drug? I certainly doubt that TLM was off any drugs or substitute drugs when she was interviewed by LE the first few times. I think the jury should know how she was during all those interrogations and right now, for that matter.