Kathleen Savio's Death #1

[STEADFAST]

To me that sounds like it would have happened being picked up and put into the tub.

I agree, despite my above post. Those areas sound just like where *someone* would have grasped her body to get it into the tub.

 

[SuziQ]

I agree, despite my above post. Those areas sound just like where *someone* would have grasped her body to get it into the tub.

So how long till lividity sets in? Let's say you kill someone, think about what to do, come up with a plan....stage the body and it leaves fingerprint blanching?

 

[SuziQ]

Copy and pasted from the SP thread:

Originally Posted by STEADFAST
I agree, despite my above post. Those areas sound just like where *someone* would have grasped her body to get it into the tub.


So how long till lividity sets in? Let's say you kill someone, think about what to do, come up with a plan....stage the body and it leaves fingerprint blanching

 

[SuziQ]

Or caused by someone taking her out of the tub?

 

[STEADFAST]

By mysteriew:

But the impression I am getting (and I could be wrong) is that once lividity is fixed, it doesn't move. I would think that means that it wouldn't blanch once it is fixed. Am I wrong on that?

I know. He said it was fixed on her front side. (That's anterior, right?) Then he pointed out areas of blanching. AND he called one "blanching" and the other "fingerprint blanching."

I've got to go to bed! I'm trying to discuss something that I don't understand at all.

 

[mysteriew]

From the link I posted on the other thread, lividity time can vary- depending on when the body starts to decompose.

(from the CSI tv shows, decomp is affected by temperature in the home)

 

[SuziQ]

Okay so now that we have this whole forum, I'm going to ask and hopefully you'll all forgive me if it's been asked and answered before: I've read the coroner's report but don't quite understand it, is there really enough evidence in there to support a drowning? What about all the other things that were listed, like marks on ankles etc.?

Sorry Janet, I just saw your question. There was water in her sinuses and moderate edema of her lungs, which means she had water in her lungs.

 

[STEADFAST]

Or caused by someone taking her out of the tub?

I guess it could be either, if the marks were caused by someone lifting her. If they took her out of the tub soon enough, I don't see how anyone would know which it was.

 

[mysteriew]

By mysteriew:

I know. He said it was fixed on her front side. (That's anterior, right?) Then he pointed out areas of blanching. AND he called one "blanching" and the other "fingerprint blanching."

I've got to go to bed! I'm trying to discuss something that I don't understand at all.

Ok, if she was found on her front (yes, anterior) she could have been positioned more to one side than the other. Thus putting more pressure on one breast than the other, thus one breast could have had blanching (areola) and the other not, I think. Which is consistant with the blanching on the left thigh. But blanching on the calf? What caused that?

To play devils advocate, I wonder if anything was found under her body that could have caused the "fingerprint blanching?"

One other thing that puzzles me. Only one hand was wrinkled. The left hand- maybe from being under water. The right hand wasn't wrinkled. If under the body, would that have kept it from being wrinkled?

 

[mysteriew]

Sorry Janet, I just saw your question. There was water in her sinuses and moderate edema of her lungs, which means she had water in her lungs.

The foam cone at her nose also indicates drowning.

 

[STEADFAST]

The foam cone at her nose also indicates drowning.

So she had bruises and contusions, and she drowned, and she was found face down in a bathtub from which the water had drained out, but not with the correct blood trails for blood to have drained with the water? Is that right?

 

[mysteriew]

So she had bruises and contusions, and she drowned, and she was found face down in a bathtub from which the water had drained out, but not with the correct blood trails for blood to have drained with the water? Is that right?

That is pretty much what I think.

 

[STEADFAST]

That is pretty much what I think.

Well, I just don't see how that could happen to a person alone in a bathtub. Why, just the whole idea of drowning face down doesn't make sense. Even if somebody fell forward and hit her head, wouldn't she end up sort of folded upwards along the front wall of the tub and not with her head down in the water, unless she was about four and a half feet tall? Was the blood on the front part of her hair? If not, how could she hit her head on the back or side and then pitch over forwards?

On the other hand, why would someone place her face down in the tub if it wouldn't make sense --- wait, I just thought of something. A murderer would have to place her face down if blood had already started pooling on her front side before he moved her to the tub.

 

[chicoliving]

I think the AR mentioned the 1" laceration at the occipital/parietal areas os the skull.

Here's a link that shows the dif bones of the skull and a brief explanation.

http://face-and-emotion.com/dataface/anatomy/cranium.jsp

 

[STEADFAST]

I think the AR mentioned the 1" laceration at the occipital/parietal areas os the skull.

Here's a link that shows the dif bones of the skull and a brief explanation.

http://face-and-emotion.com/dataface/anatomy/cranium.jsp

So somewhere on the lowish back part?

Does anyone know what position she was found in? I mean, I've read "face down," but what about her legs and arms and the rest of her body?

I'm also confused about the circumstances of her being found. Did Drew call some person or people to check on her? Or did he call that one guy but then a relative also happened to come by to check?

 

[mysteriew]

I think the AR mentioned the 1" laceration at the occipital/parietal areas os the skull.

Here's a link that shows the dif bones of the skull and a brief explanation.

http://face-and-emotion.com/dataface/anatomy/cranium.jsp

From what I am reading, occipital means the bone in the back of the head, the parietal is the bones to the side of the head. So the laceration would have been on the left side, toward the rear of the head.

 

[chicoliving]

So somewhere on the lowish back part?

Does anyone know what position she was found in? I mean, I've read "face down," but what about her legs and arms and the rest of her body?

I'm also confused about the circumstances of her being found. Did Drew call some person or people to check on her? Or did he call that one guy but then a relative also happened to come by to check?

My recollection of the guy who was first or one of the first on scene said that she was slouched forward...all the way forward with chest to knees or legs.

 

[Leila]

A question.............according to news reports Kathleen's body is to be exhumed soon, possibly today.

Once the body is exhumed, how long would it normally take for the autopsy to be done and the results known and reported? In this particular case, I'm assuming that toxicology reports won't be an issue as the original autopsy report is negative on any alcohol or drugs in her system. The autopsy seems to be focused on the manner of death.

 

[STEADFAST]

My recollection of the guy who was first or one of the first on scene said that she was slouched forward...all the way forward with chest to knees or legs.

I wonder what was going through the coroner's jury's minds when they ruled that it wasn't murder. I guess they must not have had to come up with a plausible theory of how she ended up that way accidentally?:waitasec:

 

[Taximom]

I'd sure like to hear the testimony presented to that jury. I don't think I would have been comfortable saying she drowned "accidentally".