KC's Anniversary Reaction

[essies]

NG was saying she thinks his might be the ground work for an insanity defense. I think she is wrong. I think if anything it actually reinforces that KC is in fact sane. She is obviously having a PTSD type reaction on or near the anniversary of the death of her daughter. On or near the date she died... NOT when she was publicly known and confirmed to be dead.

This could be viewed as a perfectly normal state to be in for someone who lived through the childs death and the horrors of her disposal.

ITA-In fact, I would say that this is, if true, the first appropriate display of emotion that KC has shown so far. But, then again, maybe she has realized that it's summertime and she can't put on her bikini and go work on her tan!:furious:

 

[amandab]

Part of me wonders if KC avoids sleep, b/c that's the only time she's not in as much control of her emotions/actions.

 

[Betty Boop]

I can't help but think of Edgar Allan Poe's "Tell-Tale Heart" when I hear of KC's alleged night terrors.

Good summary/analysis at Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tell-Tale_Heart

 

[JustJax]

Jailed Casey Anthony screams Caylee’s name during nightmares
A jail source claims Casey Anthony has nightmares of her dead daughter, 2-year-old Caylee and screams, “Caylee! Caylee!” in the dead of night.

http://www.examiner.com/x-1168-Crime-Examiner~y2009m6d12-Jailed-Casey-Anthony-screams-Caylees-name-during-nightmares

Well part of me wonders if this is a script directed by her legal team so they can translate this behavior to their advantage

 

[travelgal]

I agree. I have heard of this too many times to count, and cases where people were hospitalized and didn't know it was the anniversary of a significant trauma until later.

I have personally experienced it myself, once when I was aware of the date and once when I didn't realize until I saw the hospital bill. It is well known among grief counselors.

I also know that the days leading up to the anniversary are often worse than the actual day as far as stress goes. Sometimes the worry about how bad it will be is much more difficult than the actual day.

I don't know if Casey is faking or who is sharing this info, but none of this would surprise me. She would have to be inhuman not to be feeling some degree of panic by now.

You are spot on, Angelmom. I, too, have experienced the "anniversary" days or weeks prior to the actual date of a death for example. Sometimes it is a season that triggers the feelings.

I, for one, would be happy to know that KC is experiencing some type of subconscious reaction to Caylee's death. The dates of June 9 & 10 are not particularly significant to us but perhaps they are to her. She may have begun formulating her "plan" as such to "dispose" of Caylee to spite CA. Many of us have surmised the actual big clash with CA occurred around June 8. At any rate this is the time period that everything began happen to change the lives of the A's forever.

IMO KC would not fake mental illness - she is too narcissistic to do that.

 

[Verité]

EXACTLY!!! I totally concur; while often times something may happen on the day of the anniversary the stress can begin prior and linger, and the way I have seen it is, about a 30 day span... Starting before and lingering on after the anniversary date.

I actually have also seen; for people who have had very difficult birth traumas to start getting stressed
30 days prior to their BD.

The body is a blue print that remembers all time, and all space even when the mind may have suppressed it on a conscious level.

I too have heard and read much about the potential of June 9th as a real date of CAYLEES demise. and because CAYLEE seems to have gone to see her great Grandpa on Fathers day as CINDY says (who lies a lot) we all have been thinking that June 15-16 as a date that Caylee went missing. Many believe the date Caylee died was June 24th. THAT would put us in that 30 day range where KC would be stressing, having night sweats, dreams, or eating unusually. . . .
Bold mine

RIP CAYLEE :blowkiss:

Thanks, songline, for your fantastic post and the emphasis on the timeline of the typical anniversary reaction. I offer consensual validation for that, coz it sure meets
the "approximately one month" reactions which I've had (in the past, thank goodness, though recently and oddly, in a dream right on the date of the event which
I thought had long since been resolved. I awakened in a funk and wondered why. . .until I began my dream analysis, starting with the date and was stunned
to find that there are still effects of wounds from long ago.)

 

[OneLostGrl]

True although it would not stop Defense from somehow entering it during cross of an expert as being an explanation of KC's lack of emotion. Also Defense could use it in some form in Motions that AL is going to pen to attempt to get the DP dropped.
I just grabbed PTSD as an example - they could use a combination of disorders
with some background info to back it up. KC telling friend she is losing it - JG saying the KC now is not the KC he knew - stealing money from family started after Caylee was born etc.
IMO she is just a "bad seed" but Defense is adamant about this not being a DP case and AL will use whatever and everything to get DP dropped before trial. And that is half of their battle.

They can try to do anything they like. It won't work though.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Some also think the strangulation fight between Cindy and KC happened on the 8th or 9th of June. It could be that was the point where she decided to act on her thoughts and started planning the murder for the following week.

The "choking" of Casey has stayed with me because I believe something may have gone very wrong during that fight.

 

[Verité]

Jailed Casey Anthony screams Caylee’s name during nightmares
A jail source claims Casey Anthony has nightmares of her dead daughter, 2-year-old Caylee and screams, “Caylee! Caylee!” in the dead of night.

http://www.examiner.com/x-1168-Crim...nthony-screams-Caylees-name-during-nightmares

And merci, donka, thanks-a-heap for this link! I've been wanting to have a resource other than NG whose melodramatic presentation I resist.
I also agree with your earlier post, songline, that one cannot "fake" night sweats, nightmares, etc.--unless one is the Best of the Best Academy Award
winners, and we've seen that KC is not--yet.

I also resist the notion that KC is being directed by her new attorney, though I may wonder about AL's motives in general in this case. I don't think
that she would stoop so low as to coach this young woman on the psycho- physiological effects associated with an anniversary reaction. If you've read
her article about how to prepare for a capital case, she's so meticulous and detailed about the beginning phase of setting up files and tracking systems
for witness investigations, etc. that I wonder if she'll be ready for this trial by 2011 or 12! How she'd find the time to coach the defendant in this case--
unless she brings in the most disreputable shrink for that purpose--well, that's just too disillusioning for me to even consider.

 

[Verité]

I can't help but think of Edgar Allan Poe's "Tell-Tale Heart" when I hear of KC's alleged night terrors.

Good summary/analysis at Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tell-Tale_Heart

Wow! I'm so glad you mentioned the Wikipedia article on this which is must reading for anyone involved in trying to "figure" out the KC case because
it turns the concept of "insanity" upside down. In the story, the fact that the protagonist insisted he was "sane," while trying to explain irrational actions
and subsequent guilt-induced reliving, was seen as evidence that he was actually "insane."

The analysis is excellent in describing the context for the story as the controversy over the insanity defense in the 1840s. What a read!

 

[Verité]

She's a psychopath. She deliberately murdered her baby. Victims suffer trauma- she is not a victim of anything. She had no feelings for her child, not one iota. She didn't care at all and killed her and discarded her like so much trash. IMO, she's not losing any sleep whatsoever over murdering Caylee. And if any behaviour has changed, I attribute it all to histrionics and high drama- common to the A way of life and part of a sociopath's arsenal. It's just another way to manipulate.

See that link provided by Betty Boop (above) about the Edgar Allen Poe story of a premeditated, heinous crime set in the mid-1800s, when the murderer is
being driven mad by a type of "reliving." The commission of such a crime and eventual physiological "anniversary reactions" are not mutually exclusive.

The polygraph, for example, is administered even to sociopaths, and their response is determined by physiological reactions. With recognition of their
expert powers of deception, I don't think that all of the measured psychopaths/sociopaths/antisocial PDs out there are on a par with the Yogi master
who is the only type individual that I know of who has scientifically demonstrated a profound ability to control his own physiology.

 

[songline]

They can try to do anything they like. It won't work though.

OLG with all due respect when you say things that did not happen as it being a fact I will have to reply...:blowkiss:
Well...While the law is that one must not know right from wrong to be eligible for an insane plea.
You seem positive, "It Won't Happen" but I will never say never; been surprised before:
MAYBE "It wont happen" more then likely you are right and most likely it wont happen.
But it can happen depending on what else comes out of the wash with time.
My reasoning.
The world has now seen a family that would rarely produce a normal/balanced Jane/KC;
I think if the legal team has something up their sleeve I wont say never because the
"A"s are all :crazy:
and KC's subconscious mind has a world of its own, a world she can not control at all.
I AM SURE KC can not control her night sweats, night mares, dreams, or panic I think what is
happening to her is real.

 

[songline]

And merci, donka, thanks-a-heap for this link! I've been wanting to have a resource other than NG whose melodramatic presentation I resist.
I also agree with your earlier post, songline, that one cannot "fake" night sweats, nightmares, etc.--unless one is the Best of the Best Academy Award
winners, and we've seen that KC is not--yet.

I also resist the notion that KC is being directed by her new attorney, though I may wonder about AL's motives in general in this case. I don't think
that she would stoop so low as to coach this young woman on the psycho- physiological effects associated with an anniversary reaction. If you've read
her article about how to prepare for a capital case, she's so meticulous and detailed about the beginning phase of setting up files and tracking systems
for witness investigations, etc. that I wonder if she'll be ready for this trial by 2011 or 12! How she'd find the time to coach the defendant in this case--
unless she brings in the most disreputable shrink for that purpose--well, that's just too disillusioning for me to even consider.

Well I do not think she needs a crock for a Dr. to get a diagnosis that this girl is not your avrage Jane.
If we can all see it long distance then a professional diagnosis would certainly have more to offer.

They have been observing KC for a long time, radical changes they would notice quick.
Dreams on the Anniversary is a natural thing IMO it is not a case of KC acting.
Nancy is giving them a theory to play with. JMO NG must have run out of material. lol

Her attorney has no plan to trial this case November of 2009 NONE.
this is what I am afraid of with this new lawyer:
She intends to delay as far off as she can. Sometime a year longer then we expected.
I PRAY IT WILL NOT BE ALLOWED.
She intends on getting KC out, by then KC may have served 2-3 years and she will say time served for negligence of a minor.

 

[faefrost]

And merci, donka, thanks-a-heap for this link! I've been wanting to have a resource other than NG whose melodramatic presentation I resist.
I also agree with your earlier post, songline, that one cannot "fake" night sweats, nightmares, etc.--unless one is the Best of the Best Academy Award
winners, and we've seen that KC is not--yet.

I also resist the notion that KC is being directed by her new attorney, though I may wonder about AL's motives in general in this case. I don't think
that she would stoop so low as to coach this young woman on the psycho- physiological effects associated with an anniversary reaction. If you've read
her article about how to prepare for a capital case, she's so meticulous and detailed about the beginning phase of setting up files and tracking systems
for witness investigations, etc. that I wonder if she'll be ready for this trial by 2011 or 12! How she'd find the time to coach the defendant in this case--
unless she brings in the most disreputable shrink for that purpose--well, that's just too disillusioning for me to even consider.

isn't this the same attorney who handcuffed herself to the jury box and openly sobbed in front of the jury to sway them against the DP?

While she is noted as a brilliant dedicated and meticulus attorney and legal scholar. She is also noted as an overly melodramatic showboat who does play to the heartstrings and emotions of the jury far more then the facts.

 

[songline]

isn't this the same attorney who handcuffed herself to the jury box and openly sobbed in front of the jury to sway them against the DP?

While she is noted as a brilliant dedicated and meticulus attorney and legal scholar. She is also noted as an overly melodramatic showboat who does play to the heartstrings and emotions of the jury far more then the facts.

That is interesting, lol don't know;
but yes she is a melodramatic show.
And the State Attorney is going to have to have some very sharp Legal Eagles.
I do not trust her.

 

[Sheromom]

Honestly, I think KC might be so busy eating chips while reading "how to appy make-up" magazines that she might not even remember it is the anniversary until after the fact. But I surely hopes she remembers it and that it is the only thing she can think about; not just that day but every day that she is alive. So many of us here who have never met her love Caylee more than her mother ever did.

 

[OneLostGrl]

OLG with all due respect when you say things that did not happen as it being a fact I will have to reply...:blowkiss:
Well...While the law is that one must not know right from wrong to be eligible for an insane plea.
You seem positive, "It Won't Happen" but I will never say never; been surprised before:
MAYBE "It wont happen" more then likely you are right and most likely it wont happen.
But it can happen depending on what else comes out of the wash with time.
My reasoning.
The world has now seen a family that would rarely produce a normal/balanced Jane/KC;
I think if the legal team has something up their sleeve I wont say never because the
"A"s are all :crazy:
and KC's subconscious mind has a world of its own, a world she can not control at all.
I AM SURE KC can not control her night sweats, night mares, dreams, or panic I think what is
happening to her is real.

You misunderstand- I think what is happening to her is real too! Recall that I do not think she is a Psychopath and does indeed have feelings. I think what's happening is very real due to guilt, IMO.

But I stand by my opinion that there is NO WAY an insanity defense will make it through the doors of that courtroom. You are free to disagree with me, as you have. But I know an insanity defense will not fly in this case. I know what insanity is and it ain't Casey Anthony. All I can say is watch and see.. you don't gotta believe me.

 

[Verité]

Honestly, I think KC might be so busy eating chips while reading "how to appy make-up" magazines that she might not even remember it is the anniversary until after the fact. But I surely hopes she remembers it and that it is the only thing she can think about; not just that day but every day that she is alive. So many of us here who have never met her love Caylee more than her mother ever did.

Yes, KC seems to be coping through using distractions to fill up the empty spaces in her life/mind. The thing about an anniversary reaction is that it doesn't
require her conscious memory of dates. When painful memories are suppressed effectively, the unconscious mind seems to take over during sleep
and demand expression of the conflict in the form of nightmares, panic, and other physiologic mechanisms. These reactions may even force the
painful memories into her waking consciousness--but I wouldn't count on it, or expect her to admit to them unless she really starts to "lose it,"
i.e. decompensate into some overt form of serious psychiatric disorder.

 

[Verité]

isn't this the same attorney who handcuffed herself to the jury box and openly sobbed in front of the jury to sway them against the DP?

While she is noted as a brilliant dedicated and meticulus attorney and legal scholar. She is also noted as an overly melodramatic showboat who does play to the heartstrings and emotions of the jury far more then the facts.

Yes, indeedy! And that's part of the reason that I remain jaded, though I still am naive enough to believe that AL won't provide KC any coaching on mental disorders,
either by herself, a doc, or other. Here, I am cautious enuf to say that I still retain Doubts (yeah, with a capital D) about JB and what he may or may not do
to score a victory in this case.


(Please, if it is ever learned that AL coached KC in a mental defect defense, don't anyone tell me! Sometimes ignorance is bliss, doncha know!) :crosseyed:

 

[OneLostGrl]

Yes, indeedy! And that's part of the reason that I remain jaded, though I still am naive enough to believe that AL won't provide KC any coaching on mental disorders,
either by herself, a doc, or other. Here, I am cautious enuf to say that I still retain Doubts (yeah, with a capital D) about JB and what he may or may not do
to score a victory in this case.


(Please, if it is ever learned that AL coached KC in a mental defect defense, don't anyone tell me! Sometimes ignorance is bliss, doncha know!) :crosseyed:

:blowkiss: great post!