Kyron's doctors appointment

[pufnstuf]

Have we heard from the teacher anything about this paperwork?

The teacher is not speaking--I'm sure that her administration will not let her speak, since--if Kyron's disappearance proves not to be family-related, the school will more than likely face a lawsuit. I do think that it's important to know, though, that the teacher kept her job, taught her same class until the end of the school year, and is still employed with Skyline.

THAT, to me, speaks volumes.

 

[glorybug]

What I am saying is that I am not sure discussing the appointment is appropriate, since it was not reported by LE or the parents.

If it is ok to discuss it based on the unverified account of the SMs friend, then, what she supposedly said was that the SM gave the teacher a form the day before (the 3rd) (when there was no chaos at the school) and said Kyron had an appointment on the 11th, and that she needed the paperwork back before then.

IF we are to take this friend's statement as fact, then the appointment has no relevance at all. The teacher should not have thought Kyron had an appointment the next day. I would in fact guess that the teacher had not been able to immediately return the paperwork the same day, and therefore could not really have thought the SM took Kyron to an appointment without the needed paperwork.

On the other hand, it is entirely possible (if it is true) that the teacher just plain didn't pay any attention to the SM asking for the paperwork, only heard the word 'Friday' (instead of Friday the 11th), and ASSUMED he had an appointment the next day, none of which SM could have been responsible for, as far as misunderstanding.

If the other second-hand story is to be believed, that SM yelled across a crowded gym that he had an appointment the next week, you'd have to believe that at some point they were in a crowded gym at some point, which none of the established reports show as true.

If I am crossing any TOS, let me know.

I think posters are just trying to discuss the possibility that the reported appointment has relevance to Kyron's disappearance.

 

[grandmaj]

I'm going to reinstate the IEP posts because it may be part of the discussion that would make sense of this. Let's not draw any conclusions about diagnosing Kyron though OK. That was my fear. Just that it is possible this is the type of paperwork the teacher may have been asked to complete.

 

[pufnstuf]

If we can't discuss the appointment, then are we allowed to discuss Mr. Jim Kelley's statements, Carol Moulton's statements, Kelly Davidson Ramirez' statements? So much of what we are getting is second-hand. I think we should discuss it, but keep in mind that it is second-hand information and not from the primary source. JMO.

 

[JBean]

It's important because it speaks to opportunity.

If Terri told the teacher that Kyron would be absent Friday, then, when he was indeed absent, Ms. Porter didn't get upset when Kyron was not there. She expected him to be gone. His mother told her that he had a doctor's appointment.

When Kyron was found missing, then Terri said that she didn't mean THIS Friday, but next week.

It demonstrates that quite possibly, the parent caused premeditated confusion and plausible deniability ("I TOLD her next Friday, but she's a 'new teacher' plus she's hard of hearing--so she just didn't understand) to buy time for Kyron to be taken, possibly killed, and his body disposed of, when nobody knew that he was even missing.

It bought time and provided opportunity and cover.

Oh no wonder I am not following, that is quite a stretch! JMHO of course
The report was that she gave her paperwork to be filled out in advance of an appointment the following week.
Did the teacher report that she thought he was at the doctor. Is THAT the part I am missing?
Otherwise???? this still makes no sense to me.

 

[human]

I'm going to reinstate the IEP posts because it may be part of the discussion that would make sense of this. Let's not draw any conclusions about diagnosing Kyron though OK. That was my fear. Just that it is possible this is the type of paperwork the teacher may have been asked to complete.

In my state, the type of paperwork that I am talking about is not a situation where an IEP would be granted. It is not a special education category in my state.

 

[glorybug]

Well, I am going to back out of this thread, because I don't think it's appropriate to discuss supposed 'paperwork' for an appointment that was reported by a so-called friend. There is no way to determine what that paperwork might be, or even if there was any supposed paperwork required, or even if the friend's account is true.

I don't feel comfotable with any of this.

ETA- "Certain kinds of doctors need input from a teacher and parents. The teacher is given paperwork to fill out related to how the child functions in school. It is a questionnaire. The questions asked require the teacher to answer how many times a day certain things may occur during the day.
For example, and this is really paraphrasing, "The child eats unusual objects or chews on clothing."
There are many questions."

This is exactly why. We do not know that there was actually any questionaire. We certainly do not know if one existed and it contained questions like this.

 

[Lavender]

So help me is the friend the only one who has stated this about SM giving the paperwork to the teacher on that day? And did she say it was that day?

From http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html

~begin snip~
Finster said Horman had told Kyron's teacher the day before that she was taking the boy to the doctor on Friday, June 11, and gave the teacher paperwork to fill out related to the appointment.
~end snip~

I took this to mean that TH gave the paperwork to the teacher on June 3rd, at the same time she told the teacher about the appointment.

To my knowledge, no one besides Ms. Finster has talked directly to a journalist regarding this appointment misunderstanding.

 

[pufnstuf]

Oh no wonder I am not following, that is quite a stretch! JMHO of course
The report was that she gave her paperwork to be filled out in advance of an appointment the following week.
Did the teacher report that she thought he was at the doctor. Is THAT the part I am missing?
Otherwise???? this still makes no sense to me.

Yeah, it's a stretch--BUT if it ends up being a particular family member, it can demonstrate premeditation. IF it ends up being that family member, then it will be that family member's word vs. the teacher's word. And that will be for a jury to sort out, as to who is the most believable, I suppose...

Again... not saying that I agree or disagree with this, but that's what the stickler about the appointment is.

 

[Hephaestus]

Not sure if this is relevant or not, but I'm in the process of having my son, age 9, evaluated for ADHD. Part of the process is to ask questions of his teacher in order to establish a pattern of difficulty or behavior at both home and school. While the form given to Kyron's teacher could have easily been the type of form or questionnaire I am dealing with, I still fail to see why the condition itself would be remotely relevant here.

What is more relevant is whether the school was expecting him to be absent that day or not. First, when our son will be leaving for a doctor's appointment, we call the school office, not always the teacher, because it's the school office that logs such absences. The teachers report them to the office.

Second, it strikes me as odd that the teacher and the school would expect him to be absent the entire day for a doctor's appointment.

In any case, I think what I see folks asking here more than anything is not necessarily about the medical condition, but really about whether the appointment - whatever it was - was verified or not.

 

[txsvicki]

I didn't realize that early info about what Kyron might have and the fear of cops was heard on the scanner. If there was paperwork to fill out from a teacher for the doctor to look at, the "may" in that info would be correct at that time. What I don't get is why the teacher didn't motion for Terri to come over to where she was or make sure she understood what was being said because it related to a dr. appointment and possibly could be an abscence being reported. But, proper procedure would be for Terri to inform the office. I think LE finding all they can about this appointment and possible condition is hugely relevant.

 

[JBean]

Not sure if this is relevant or not, but I'm in the process of having my son, age 9, evaluated for ADHD. Part of the process is to ask questions of his teacher in order to establish a pattern of difficulty or behavior at both home and school. While the form given to Kyron's teacher could have easily been the type of form or questionnaire I am dealing with, I still fail to see why the condition itself would be remotely relevant here.

What is more relevant is whether the school was expecting him to be absent that day or not. First, when our son will be leaving for a doctor's appointment, we call the school office, not always the teacher, because it's the school office that logs such absences. The teachers report them to the office.

Second, it strikes me as odd that the teacher and the school would expect him to be absent the entire day for a doctor's appointment.

In any case, I think what I see folks asking here more than anything is not necessarily about the medical condition, but really about whether the appointment - whatever it was - was verified or not.

I agree and to me the only thing that would be relevant is if the school was led to believe that he would not be in school that day. from where I sit there is no evidence or information that could lead us to that conclusion.
JMHO of course.

 

[sleuthy sleutherson]

The teacher is not speaking--I'm sure that her administration will not let her speak, since--if Kyron's disappearance proves not to be family-related, the school will more than likely face a lawsuit. I do think that it's important to know, though, that the teacher kept her job, taught her same class until the end of the school year, and is still employed with Skyline.

THAT, to me, speaks volumes.

THANK YOU! Why in God's name has the teacher not spoken or been given an interview? If I were Kyron's teacher I would be all over the place trying to help find him or help find out what happened to him. I don't know, but something about your statement just really stood out to me and I am once again questioning myself, where and what is the school's involvement in this missing boy's case? Why aren't they speaking out more and why on earth did other parents send their precious loved ones back to this school the following school day?

I know that people "representing" the school have talked...I don't care about what they have to say, I only care about what Kyron's teacher has to say, you know, the person that was with him about 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. JUST SAYING...where is she and WHAT DOES she have to say?

Are we serioulsy this messed up as society that we forget to protect and speak up for the children? I do care who did it and I'm just not getting that feeling from others involved in this case, it is our job and ethical/moral responsibility to protect our children and this is no longer happening in this world and I hate it. I feel like they just want Kyron home and forget about what you have done just bring him back and I completley and totally understand that thinking and rationalization but, we have a duty to stop this from happening to another child/family.

I have every right to suspect TH or KH or DY or TY or a school employee, another student, another family member, a total stranger. I don't have anything from LE telling me otherwise and out of all the people that could be involved the loop keeps coming back to or pointing towards one of these possible suspects. :crazy:

 

[carole]

THANK YOU! Why in God's name has the teacher not spoken or been given an interview? If I were Kyron's teacher I would be all over the place trying to help find him or help find out what happened to him. I don't know, but something about your statement just really stood out to me and I am once again questioning myself, where and what is the school's involvement in this missing boy's case? Why aren't they speaking out more and why on earth did other parents send their precious loved ones back to this school the following school day?

I know that people "representing" the school have talked...I don't care about what they have to say, I only care about what Kyron's teacher has to say, you know, the person that was with him about 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. JUST SAYING...where is she and WHAT DOES she have to say?

Are we serioulsy this messed up as society that we forget to protect and speak up for the children? I do care who did it and I'm just not getting that feeling from others involved in this case, it is our job and ethical/moral responsibility to protect our children and this is no longer happening in this world and I hate it. I feel like they just want Kyron home and forget about what you have done just bring him back and I completley and totally understand that thinking and rationalization but, we have a duty to stop this from happening to another child/family.

I have every right to suspect TH or KH or DY or TY or a school employee, another student, another family member, a total stranger. I don't have anything from LE telling me otherwise and out of all the people that could be involved the loop keeps coming back to or pointing towards one of these possible suspects. :crazy:

Probably because the FBI and LE have asked her not talk with the media.

 

[wondering1]

fwiw, I wasn't posting to posit a particular position at all. As I understood the situation, there was some skepticism about whether/why a teacher would be asked to fill out paperwork for a dr. appt. at all; what that paperwork might pertain to; and whether it would be relevant to the date of the appt.

The purpose of my post was simply to say that there are very common situations where a teacher is requested to fill out paperwork for a dr's appt. that may or may not include the date of the appt., but with respect to which the date might otherwise need to be communicted to the teacher -- so that the doc can get the paperwork in a timely manner.

That's all -- I was just trying to say that there's a more than plausible explanation for the paperwork. Particularly in light of the bio parents' interviews acknowledging issues that might call for an IEP.

carry on

 

[human]

THANK YOU! Why in God's name has the teacher not spoken or been given an interview? If I were Kyron's teacher I would be all over the place trying to help find him or help find out what happened to him. I don't know, but something about your statement just really stood out to me and I am once again questioning myself, where and what is the school's involvement in this missing boy's case? Why aren't they speaking out more and why on earth did other parents send their precious loved ones back to this school the following school day?

I know that people "representing" the school have talked...I don't care about what they have to say, I only care about what Kyron's teacher has to say, you know, the person that was with him about 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. JUST SAYING...where is she and WHAT DOES she have to say?

Are we serioulsy this messed up as society that we forget to protect and speak up for the children? I do care who did it and I'm just not getting that feeling from others involved in this case, it is our job and ethical/moral responsibility to protect our children and this is no longer happening in this world and I hate it. I feel like they just want Kyron home and forget about what you have done just bring him back and I completley and totally understand that thinking and rationalization but, we have a duty to stop this from happening to another child/family.

I have every right to suspect TH or KH or DY or TY or a school employee, another student, another family member, a total stranger. I don't have anything from LE telling me otherwise and out of all the people that could be involved the loop keeps coming back to or pointing towards one of these possible suspects. :crazy:

I would strongly guess that no school employee may talk about anything related to this case. The school spokesperson has been given the job.

This would be done by the advice of an attorney. To violate this would be seen as insubordination.

I don't know anything about LE and the legal aspects about speaking about a criminal case .

 

[Lavender]

Well, pretty much every theory I have hinges on this appointment misunderstanding one way or the other. To me, it's always been key.

 

[human]

The reason I discusses paperwork that is given to a teacher was to clarify that this actually happens in school.

If one does not have a child that needs such paperwork to be done by a teacher, then I am assuming that people in general do not realize that this is one of the services a teacher provides.

I was only giving an example of questions on a form of a type that I have done. I have done other kinds of forms as well that would indicate other issues.

There is no way that anyone could know the type of paperwork that would be given to a teacher in reference to a doctor's visit regarding the missing child.

If we are to believe the friend that reported on this paperwork, I was giving an example of a type of paperwork that may be filled out by a teacher.

This in no way indicates that it is the type that was given to the teacher of the missing child.

There seemed to be confusion on this issue, so I attempted to clarify what could have transpired based on my experience in terms of the timing of a teacher getting paperwork related to a doctor's appt.

 

[Wendy101]

The reason I discusses paperwork that is given to a teacher was to clarify that this actually happens in school.

If one does not have a child that needs such paperwork to be done by a teacher, then I am assuming that people in general do not realize that this is one of the services a teacher provides.

I was only giving an example of questions on a form of a type that I have done. I have done other kinds of forms as well that would indicate other issues.

There is no way that anyone could know the type of paperwork that would be given to a teacher in reference to a doctor's visit regarding the missing child.

If we are to believe the friend that reported on this paperwork, I was giving an example of a type of paperwork that may be filled out by a teacher.

This in no way indicates that it is the type that was given to the teacher of the missing child.

There seemed to be confusion on this issue, so I attempted to clarify what could have transpired based on my experience in terms of the timing of a teacher getting paperwork related to a doctor's appt.

Just bouncing off your post:

FWIW: My sons school gave me a paper to take to his Dr. App. They had filled in their opinion of him.. as they thought he had inattentive ADD.. well they marked everything about him "always" meaning he always does that. Well long story short, my son went into his appointment and spoke & answered questions about the respiratory system(my sons choice) for 45 minutes... the doc thought the school was NUTS :dance:.... Told me either the teacher is not teaching him properly (as in answering all his questions) or he is bored with the subject she was teaching..


I don't even know why we are talking about this subject, but, I know many people with ADD/ODD/ADHD/Dyslexia/Dysgraphia/Dyscalculia all sorts of problems at school, and they did not go missing. So I am not understanding how any of this fits into Kyron gone missing.:waitasec:

 

[txsvicki]

I'll bet LE is questioning everything and talking to everyone on this issue and all others. They'll need to get an idea of all that was going on and the attitudes surrounding home and school and this is part of it.