Laura Babcock Murder Trial 12.11.17 - Charge to the Jury - Day 3

[NoodlesMcgee]

Many of Laura's friends were asked about her phone habits. They pretty much all testified that she was on her phone all the time.

Fair... But different situation... I'm on my phone when I'm around friends and family, I stay off it at work or likely if I was trying to impress someone I was enamoured with.

 

[XFP]

What you are seeing there is the back of the front door.

If the house had 10 bedrooms, I'd be surprised. There was no need for this many and it was a bungalow, although it did appear that fairly new ones were built in the basement. I'd say it was probably more like 8 bedrooms, 4 up and 4 down but since we only got pictures of 3 of them, it's hard to tell.

As far as the mattress is concerned, it's quite possible that it was kept in the house, in another unused bedroom, until the house was liquidated and everything was tossed. Especially if it was just urine soaked. DM never seemed to throw anything out.

MOO

Ottay said it was a large home, with "at least 10 bedrooms."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/laura-babcock-murder-trial-tuesday-1.4388547

 

[Spartygirl]

BBM

SL made every effort to interest the TPS in LB's disappearance without success back in July, 2012. SL claims to have handed them LB's phone records and pointed out that LB's last 8 calls were with DM. Yet DM was never approached by TPS until after his arrest for TB's murder. Looks like gross Police negligence to me on their investigation of a MP file, where one of the first things one does is check phone records (and banking activity).
Had they done their due diligence, then both WM and TB would likely still be alive today.
TPS's approach has been to deny, deny, deny while praising the 22 Division for their thoroughness on this missing person file.
Here's the press conference from June, 2013 when all of this first surfaced...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwLgv3YhsTM

Grr.watching this newscast just Honks me off !!! They did NOT follow through with the original investigation at all.

 

[Jealoushe]

snipped...

Are single psychopathic murderers entitled to 'conjugal visits'?

Bernardo does.

Do DM and CN have a no contact order?

 

[clefk27]

Would that be your response to someone who knew you killed her?

Just don't believe this idea that everyone was aware they were killing people.

CN was obsessed with LB. Even LB’s death didn’t absolve DM of past infidelities. Nor would it for most monogamous couples. That’s why DM was still on the defensive, with his pleas of “pathological liar=pathological liar”. And by referring to LB in the past tense in his text to CN, “you of all people know how I regarded Laura” could only indicate that CN was privy to the story of LB’s murder IMO.

 

[canadiangirl]

Tomorrow is the day when we all likely get angry when the 'what the jury didn't see' stories come out.

I wonder how many shockers we'll get. Although I know the reasons why things are not allowed, it always feels like the jurors are only hearing part of the story IMO

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[Just4TB]

I have not heard that Justice Code has provided any decision trees to the jury.
Perhaps that will be in his final deliverable tomorrow AM? I certainly hope so.

Decision trees, showing IF x, THEN y, can greatly reduce the number of time the jury has to seek clarification from the Judge during deliberations.

Given the gravity of the charges, and the sheer volume of circumstantial evidence, I predict the jury will not be returning two verdicts quickly.
One verdict should not take long... but the 2nd will hold up announcing the 1st.

 

[winter2017]

IMHO, CN knew that DM had gotten rid of LB, it was just that CN's friends were still saying that DM slept with LB and that rumour was still under her skin. How did DM reply? "You know how I FELT about L" Past tense. That says it all for me. Don't you think that CN may have been wondering where LB was since they had some pretty good heated exchanges? Doesn't look like she had any concerns. MOO

CN knew I will never believe any thing different. Suddenly Laura is gone and all the talk between CN and DM about her and what a nuisance she was. The police could not get her because nothing to
show it .
The texts between her and Laura some how got deleted and not retrievable. I am sure there could have been more evidence of her hatred for Laura in the texts.
There is something wrong with her so I would not be surprised in the future if we hear more about her. She is quite abnormal IMO, and I also think there is something very off about MM so may hear more about her in future.

 

[DeaconBrodie]

I’m trying to think back to the evidence...did be buy a mattress and a box spring or just a mattress?

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that he had bought a box spring, just that a king sized mattress would fit in a van because it is bendy, but certainly not a box spring which is more solid.

I did not intend to create a red herring.....

 

[inbetweendoors]

It would sure hide the rolled up tarp likely laying beneath it if ever pulled over by LE. Doubt the sheets were still on it regardless of what condition they were in. Also not sure where the rumours of Pedo urinating on the bed came from but it makes sense that the mattress may have been urine soaked if the murder took place on it.

Does anyone know who started and/or floated those Pedo urinating on the bed rumours? :waitasec:

Was this something that someone wanted people to think regarding an excuse for the replacement of the mattress? If so, pretty weird timing to replace it just when LB "disappears". :thinking:

MOO

BBM

I believe I'm the droid you're looking for.

I was re-reading MS's testimony from the TB trial while following this trial, and MS claimed on the stand that DM used to abuse Pedo for "peeing and pooing on his bed". The judge was quick to have the jury disregard the allegation.

I likely put the theory forward as a *possibly* plausible reason for the mattress replacement. Yes, the timing would be suspect, but we don't even know how/when/where LB died, so the mattress situation could indeed truly be an unfortunate coincidence for DM.

If it was just Pedo's mess, it would have been perfectly feasible for DM to store the soiled mattress in another room or the garage (or heck even out back), until he had the means to dispose of it. I know mattresses can bend, but it would be a hell of a struggle to get a king size into a Dodge Caravan. (Also wasn't a mattress or multiple mattresses found in his trailer or something during the TB search?)

Hope this answered your questions.

 

[andreww]

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that he had bought a box spring, just that a king sized mattress would fit in a van because it is bendy, but certainly not a box spring which is more solid.

I did not intend to create a red herring.....

A mattress isn’t bendy. Try it. You’d need to fold it in half. Impossible. And there are no king box springs. They use two twin box springs as you would never be able to maneuver a king sized box through a house.


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[mimimic]

Two box springs were already agreed on. Mattress is a bit bendy to maneuver through house. So I take this van door is not in the back but the side?

A mattress isn’t bendy. Try it. You’d need to fold it in half. Impossible. And there are no king box springs. They use two twin box springs as you would never be able to maneuver a king sized box through a house.


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[andreww]

Ottay said it was a large home, with "at least 10 bedrooms."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/laura-babcock-murder-trial-tuesday-1.4388547

I think that’s an error. I’ve seen sprawling mansions with nowhere near 10 bedrooms. I’d say 10 rooms is more likely what he meant.


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[andreww]

It appears they were MS was staying at DM's house during this time. They could do mission talk in person.



I would guess he took the screenshot so he'd have the data without searching again and it was saved as an auto-backup of all his photos.



We have little indication of how LB used her phone when she was with other people. Most people don't text or use their phone if they are on a date. Suspect that drive was to get ammo based on the evidence. There was contact between MWJ and DM that was don't have as indicated by the judge.

The direction Millard traveled didn’t seem to be in the direction of Isho’s area. But who knows?


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[andreww]

Would that be your response to someone who knew you killed her?

Just don't believe this idea that everyone was aware they were killing people.

Well CN obviously knew. When MM found out she still wanted to marry Smich. SS knew Millard had TBs truck, I’m sure he could figure that out. Isho knew. Smichs garage buddies knew. So I don’t get your point?


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[JuneBug67]

It occurred to me just now to wonder why there was no corresponding “don’t be out front” directive when DM returned with Laura after his early evening mission. It suggests a possibility that either the first directive wasn’t Laura related, or that she was already gone by the time DM got back to Maple Gate.

 

[clefk27]

It occurred to me just now to wonder why there was no corresponding “don’t be out front” directive when DM returned with Laura after his early evening mission. It suggests a possibility that either the first directive wasn’t Laura related, or that she was already gone by the time DM got back to Maple Gate.

Or perhaps he drugged her on the mission so that she was already dead on his return. Doesn’t explain the mattress though.

 

[JuneBug67]

Or perhaps he drugged her so that she was already dead on his return.

Sorry if I wasn’t clear. By “gone” I did mean dead, by some means.

 

[don_quixote]

I wonder if the court will be on time with all the snow. DM sure is happy that he doesn't need to drive today

 

[MsSherlock]

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that he had bought a box spring, just that a king sized mattress would fit in a van because it is bendy, but certainly not a box spring which is more solid.

I did not intend to create a red herring.....

DM had plenty of access to large enclosed trailers. IIRC CN testified at the TB trial that DM was always driving around with a trailer of some sort. Anyone have a guess what DM would have been popping to keep going for days without sleep? Coke?

I don't quite get his fixation with having to have a gun to murder LB. Unlike TB, he would have been able to have LB in a vulnerable position, so suffocation/strangulation would be easier and quieter than shooting her. He forgot to google "when someone dies" to discover that body evacuation may occur- a waterproof mattress pad would have saved him time and money.

Was it some sort of sick thrill of holding a gun to someones head and having them beg for their life or something? It's rumoured that WM was shot thru the eye- was that DM's mark. Did he need to shoot both LB and TB in the same fashion as he shot his dad?

Also, I remember early in the TB investigation, one of LE said that it was like "The Following". There's absolutely nothing that I would put past this bunch. Just like RB's stated- DM is a sick twisted pr%ck. And seriously, what's with AM and SS? and absent from the LB round was MH- he's probably still standing in line at Costco for diapers and tissues from the TB trial. IMHO the minute DM was arrested with the TB murder, this crew worked overtime scrubbing their devises, deleting emails, changing phone numbers. Did AM actually believe that LB just went missing? Ah...ok- if that makes him feel better, but IMHO, AM knew whether it be by innuendo or by more solid evidence that LB was GONE and DM had given her the one-way ticket. And SS? Smelling something foul from the incinerator and not looking? Yeh right. MM- not believing that towing the incinerator back to the hangar in the dark of night wasn't something just a tad bit bizarre? All of these people scrambled to cover their involvement. IMHO, they all know so much more. Imagine the amount of evidence LE would have had if they had descended on DM when SL first went to them? We're only seeing the stuff they couldn't delete for one reason or another and it's still enough for a huge circumstantial case against the accused.

These are people who only a few months later would be consoling DM at his dad's funeral- the one where he says his Dad died from a massive bleed. SS, AM, MH, MM. Dahh...nothing looks strange here guys? Then a few months later, they're lining up behind him giving false statements to LE when he's arrested for TB. Double dahh...we're just stupid friends. Yeh right. I'm buying it as quick as a hot water heater from a door to door salesman. So one of DM's gf's goes missing and NOT ONE of them says...hey DM, where's that LB chick, not even AM who had been sleeping with her? Massive bleed DM? Heck of a way for Pop's to die, but when are you decorating the basement and BTW, can we see your guns again?

IMHO they knew- and they knew that DM had a lot of money, would probably give LE the slip and they'd be forever in DM's bad books, but more telling is that they were OK with all of it. They can whitewash their brains and try to forget, they can walk the streets free while DM and MS spend the rest of their lives behind bars, but they are who they are; they will be haunted by the ghosts of LB, WM & TB for the rest of their lives. Someday, when DM or MS decide to write a "tell all" book, or when one of them finds God and decides to spill all the beans, the rest may find themselves in starring roles. If they were smart, they'd be writing the "tell all" book themselves.

If it wasn't for the quick action of HPS, OPP and Waterloo Police investigating the disappearance/death of a very loved young husband and father, this DM groups "secrets" would never be in the public domain.

Here's hoping that the Jury has gelled and are able to come back with a couple M1 verdicts. Sorry for the length of this post! Had so much to unload off of my mind! RIP Laura.