Legal Arguments - What went on behind Closed Doors?

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I have a headache. I believe it's from the trial today. I hope the jury reaches the right verdict. I can't believe they withheld ALL that evidence! I knew some of it, but the extent of it...OMG is all I can say. I agree with whoever said it's like he's from another planet. Planet Depraved. How does someone get to be this way!?

As for the people who were defending MR...well, as someone mentioned, it's possible (likely, IMO) that some of them had more than a passing interest in the case. If that's the case, I feel for them; I really do. They don't really have much choice but to accept it now, but it would be a hard thing to come to terms with. I feel for his mother, too--though I do wish we could hear what she has to say after today's bombshells.

I would like to know more about this "disconcerting behaviour" he showed around some of his girlfriends' children. Was there any more information about this that I missed? What sort of behaviour are we talking about? Why weren't they allowed to testify to this on the stand? Yay to CS for going for broke and throwing the escort information out there, at least.

One of the articles mentioned him trying to find a wife from an Asian country, "for a price, of course." *shudder* That, the first rape, the necrophilia searches, the epileptic searches, the "naked girl hanged" (or whatever that one was) searches, the "children for sale" (WTF!?) searches...the depths of his depravity are overwhelming to me. You would think he radiated evil. But apparently he didn't. That's pretty scary! I have to wonder if people who thought he was their friend ever had a "something's not right here" moment around him.

Oh, and one more thing: someone said yesterday they thought perhaps TLM was safer when she was arrested. I now think you were right. She might have been next, IMO. I think she's lucky she got out of that field alive. Remember her blood mixed with his DNA in the car? I have to wonder about that.

Speaking of TLM, I can't say I think she was an "innocent dupe." However, she was young, she had a crappy life, and she really would do anything for a little bit of love. I'm not saying any of that's an excuse, but I cannot deny having a teeny, tiny bit of sympathy for her, too. I think if she had never met him, she might have had a chance. I don't think she's a psychopath, but I think he is. I'm glad she's in jail, though. That's where she belongs. I hope he is soon to follow.

I could babble on all night, but I'll spare you. One more thing, though--I don't believe in the death penalty. In this case, however, I'll be damned if I can remember why. I'd like to take him out myself.
 
Flossie JMO said:
thanks for posting Flip, wonder why I can't view them? happens to me with a lot of videos for some reason? anyone know?
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My IPad will not play video by London Free Press either.
Try this link: all parts of video are there.
And other papers by Sun group.

http://www.calgarysun.com/videos/complete-rafferty-police-interview-pt-7-of-7/1632696064001

I watched the 40 min edited video earlier tonight. I always wondered if Det. Smyth had interviewed MR. Now I know. IMO MR is what Smyth stated, a psychopath. And when he comes in with Terri-lynn...
Worth the watch.
I am just sick about the warrant issue and how more motive and sexual deviance evidence was lost in legal wrangling. IMO the judge had to keep it out. I think it would of been an item appealed.

If he is found guilty of a lesser offense (than 1st), maybe the regular jail roommates will show him the google version prison 11pm search.
 
otto said:
Given MR interest in choking and TLM describing Victoria as gurgling, I think there's a good chance that MR murdered Victoria. TLM may have kicked her, stomped her or hit her with a hammer after she lay lifeless on the ground, but I think MR wanted to really try the snuff experience with a real live child.

"Indeed, Mr. Rafferty actually had one of his reluctant partners sign a waiver, giving him consent to choke her. “I agree to what Mike and I are doing tonight, sexual choking and passing out and other things,” it read.

The sexual choking had some real significance given Ms. McClintic’s evidence — in her first version of the killing, when she claimed it was Mr. Rafferty who did it — that she had heard a “gurgling” sound coming from Tori in the moments before her death.

She interpreted that to mean the little girl was being choked, a practice with which she was not unfamiliar."

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/05/10/tori-stafford-michael-rafferty-evidence/
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I don't know what to think right now.

Last night I was thinking about the OJ Simpson trial and the stuff that came out after the verdict that the judge had ruled the jury could not hear.

I thought that something similar was going on here, that there was very damning evidence that Rodney knew about that the jurors couldn't hear and that is what he was fighting to keep himself from saying. This has just been such a ginormous bombshell though.

I really did think that TLM had killed Tori, now I'm not so sure.

I think it is much more likely that MTR told TLM specifically to buy a hammer, that it was apart of his demented snuff video fantasy life and why they needed to stop when they already had a knife.

It does sound like he did drug the woman that he sexually assaulted, if so maybe there is a greater possibility they drugged Tori.
 
I like it when the interrogator tells MR to get rid of his f-n security blanket.

Here's another link: http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/10/19743416.html

Grounds for appeal: "But, while admitting that “at the time of the search, no binding authority indicated that the police were obligated to obtain a [separate] search warrant” to examine the laptop, Judge Heeney nonetheless found that Det.-Sgt. Gast took “the risk” the law might change."

Blanchford
 
daisy.faithfull said:
I don't know what to think right now.

Last night I was thinking about the OJ Simpson trial and the stuff that came out after the verdict that the judge had ruled the jury could not hear.

I thought that something similar was going on here, that there was very damning evidence that Rodney knew about that the jurors couldn't hear and that is what he was fighting to keep himself from saying. This has just been such a ginormous bombshell though.

I really did think that TLM had killed Tori, now I'm not so sure.

I think it is much more likely that MTR told TLM specifically to buy a hammer, that it was apart of his demented snuff video fantasy life and why they needed to stop when they already had a knife.

It does sound like he did drug the woman that he sexually assaulted, if so maybe there is a greater possibility they drugged Tori.
Click to expand...

I think that TLM was a big talker trying to sound tough with her Necro lyrics and MR bought the hammer for her to kind of dare her to go through with it. MR fully intended to go through with what he had fantasized about through *advertiser censored*, buying the hammer was to bind TLM to him as part of the plan. I think that Victoria was dead, lying on the ground and then MR encouraged TLM to use the hammer.

MR's fantasy was to sexually asphixiate a young child during rape. He had every opportunity to do this because TLM helped him abduct a child, was afraid of what he would do, but still did nothing to protect Victoria. She helped him disguise what they did.

I doubt that Victoria was drugged. I think that MR drugged his dates so he could do the kinky stuff he wanted to do. He didn't want anyone to know what he was up to so if the girlfriends were drugged, they wouldn't remember. He didn't care if Victoria knew what he was up to ... she wasn't going to tell anyone.

It's interesting that the parents both screwed up (appeared deceptive) on the polygraph when asked about arranging someone to abduct the child, the mother and grandmother each suspected the other, and the actual murderers did rather well on their polygraphs ... with TLM having not failed.

When I watch him, I think he is gay ... clearly I'm unable to read the signals. Anyone else think that if they met this guy they might think he's gay?

He's so defensive and such a smart *advertiser censored* ... tries to be coy ... evasive
 
They weren't seeking to include searches for: ``transgender,'' ``she male,'' ``necrophilia videos,'' ``real rape,'' ``best program to download child *advertiser censored*,'' ``naked girl seazing (sic),'' ``seizures girl,'' ``seizures videos,'' ``epileptic naked,'' ``epileptic naked attack,'' ``real gang rape'' and ``peeing.''

The investigation uncovered 13 women who reported that Rafferty had a penchant for sexual choking - some of which they said was not consensual.

Investigators said they were told Rafferty had one woman who was reluctant to participate in his sexual violence sign a consent note, saying she agreed ``to what Mike and I are doing tonight sexual choking and passing out and other things.''

One of the most startling pieces of evidence from the 15 women who were dating Rafferty in the spring of 2009 wasn't even supposed to come out.

Charity Spitzig, who had been dating Rafferty for a year and was talking marriage, gave Rafferty $16,835 from December 2008 until May 2009, when he was arrested. The Crown had instructed her not to say where the money came from, but she nevertheless testified that she and Rafferty had decided she should work as an escort and give him the earnings.

It did not go unnoticed by Derstine, who rose as soon as the jury left to denounce the ``grievously prejudicial'' comment, but assured the court he would not ask for a mistrial.

He did ask Heeney to put a stop to the ``parade of women,'' saying it was wearing on him. The parade, Crown attorney Kevin Gowdey agreed, is ``wearing on all of us.'' Heeney sided with the Crown, who argued each woman had valuable evidence to add.

I think there's more to it in my first bolded part, makes me say hmmm his voice. *scratches head* Sexually confused too maybe? MOO

http://www.am980.ca/channels/news/local/Story.aspx?ID=1702061
 
Planned and plotted to snatch a little girl off the street or stressed, drugged couple that made a bad decision?

MR: "nothing is going to change what they say, even if they were 100% rootin for me, they would say bad things."

What a sick puppy ... in a really bad way.

Interrogators try to scare him with the media frenzy, then get into the DNA proof ... 30,000 skin cells per second (he claims), next they imply that they'll find evidence in Victoria's body, and MR doubts that investigators can locate the video from the Home Depo.

When interrogators explain that video camera in parking lots is real ... MR continues to insist that his car will not be seen on video.


I get it! ... MR said in his POF site that he didn't like "head games", but he constantly plays headgames. He's a smooth talker. Everything he says in his profile may describe him ... anyone have the link to that description? Thanks
MR is expecting his escort girlfriend to bail him out ... only to learn that she's in another interview room.
 
sillybilly said:
It was a "faulty judge", not a "faulty warrant".
Click to expand...

Yup the same judge who made some snide remarks about falling asleep during some of the Crown's crucial testimony so he gave the jury an extended break.

Did I mention how much I don't like this judge?
 
Overwhelming sadness for Victoria and her family.

Just finished catching up and words can't express how sad I am for VS and family.
I also think LE and the crown did a fabulous job presenting "almost everything".
Just so shocking to take it in.
I am also coming to the conclusion that LTM may not be the savage murderer she confessed to. I have always thought given the amount of help she did give investigators that she does have a level of humanity. Maybe, just maybe there is a small glimmer of hope for her.

MR, I hope you rot in prison with or without the plexiglass.
 
I hope that MTR will not be granted an appeal if he is found guilty, but if he is, could the next judge allow the computer evidence to be presented?
 
Then, in video 7, the interrogators says "yah, you can speak to a lawyer all you want" ... and the interrogation continues.

The interrogator reflects MR's body language for long periods of time and then MR starts talking.
 
Hi fellow sleuthers, getting here late today. Just overcome with grief over the latest revelations. Trying to catch up. Crying. Unbelievably shocked that the laptop And BB evidence had to be suppressed. Praying very hard today ... for the jury to make the correct decision. Good grief, MTR is such a sick <self imposed modsnip>...
 
daisy.faithfull said:
I hope that MTR will not be granted an appeal if he is found guilty, but if he is, could the next judge allow the computer evidence to be presented?
Click to expand...

I really doubt there are any ground for appeal from the defence. From the sounds of it, every time the defence objected to evidence, the judge ruled in favour of the defence, always asking the prosecution to close the hole in the case after removing the evidence. I think the prosecution did a remarkable job ... nearly everyone that is aware of this case believes that the correct people have been arrested. Most people don't want to know the details of the depravity that the murderers visited upon the victim. It's too horrifying.

Bonnie and Clyde, Karla and Bernarda ...MR was thinking along these lines (video evidence) and so was TLM. That further validates her testimony.

The case was pretty solid even though lots of evidence was withheld. If he participated in the kidnapping and the victim was murdered, then he is guilty of 1st degree murder. Could anyone actually believe that he accidentally ended up at his old stomping ground with an 8 year old girl and was so befuddled when the hammer he just bought was used to bash a child in the head ... that he then drove the murderer back to her home and then proceeded to hide he evidence? What about that makes sense?
 
otto said:
I think it's a huge error in judgment to release interrogation interview tapes. Essentially, it seems to me that it will make all of their tactics ineffective because the most dangerious sociopaths and antisocial personality disorder people will study them.

MR seems to be in charge a bit ... he seems to be gathering information throughout the interrogation, trying to figure out how much police know and how much he can get away with. It's like he's scheming the entire time after he quits snivelling and wretching ... because his "life" is now rotting in a concrete box. Whimpering about "not being able to take care of his mom" is absurd since we know that her boyfriend moved out because MR was taking advantage of his mom.

When MR asks if he can watch the video of TLM accusing him, he wants more information ... he wants to know what police know. Slimey guy ... thinks he's really clever.

All the slimey whimpering is interesting to watch ... I expect this is how he got others to give him whatever he wanted. That whiney voice didn't suddenly appear during the interview ... I get the impression that MR is trying to control the interrogator. The interrgator plays along, trying to give MR an out for what happened. The interrogator wants MR to admit that much so he pins himself to a story.

While the officer is talking about the drug use, *advertiser censored*, abduction, rape and murder, MR has a vinyl blanket over the lower part of his body.

He's quite the little cry baby when he doesn't get his way. I wonder if he snivelled with the 13 women (including TLM).

ref: video 3
Click to expand...

imagine what a teacher or a parent went through with that lying and sniveling from him. That is why I always said a teacher should be given a blank check on pay days and just let them fill in the amount. MOO
 
Michael Rafferty’s police interview: ‘Am I sitting across from Paul Bernardo here?’

“The only concern, the issue I have is: Why did you do this? What caused you to do this? Is it something you’ve done before? Been involved with the death of other people? Did you enjoy this?” Loam chats away. “Am I sitting across the desk from Paul Bernardo here? Or am I sitting across from someone who has made a mistake?”
Click to expand...

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/0...-am-i-sitting-across-from-paul-bernardo-here/


The faces of evil at the link. I don't even want to post the pic. Hope they rot in hell!
 
It is this: Judges forever wax on about the strengths of the jury system yet routinely keep evidence — usually the very sort that to the layman would seem to be the most relevant — from them on the grounds they would misuse it or be “inflamed” by it.

To use the language of the courtroom, it’s a “reasonable inference” that this is because judges don’t wholly trust either jurors’ intelligence or judgment.

‘Judges so often exclude evidence the “What-the-jurors-didn’t-hear” story is now a staple’

The triers of the facts, which is the role jurors play at trial, often don’t have before them some of the most critical facts; things are kept from them, and the vaunted truth-seeking function of the trial is thus distorted if not outright foiled.

It raises the question of why, when the system doesn’t trust the triers of the facts, it even bothers with jury trials and doesn’t move to trial by judge alone, as happens in some parts of the world.

Still, even given all this — that judges so often exclude evidence the “What-the-jurors-didn’t-hear” story is now a staple of courtroom reporting — Judge Heeney’s reasons were surely curious.
Click to expand...

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/05/10/tori-stafford-michael-rafferty-evidence/
 
April 17th. The blackberry testimony:

@AM980_Court
We're taking a 20 minute break. Heeney calls the cell phone evidence "sleep inducing".




[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7797390#post7797390"]Trial Thread 4/17/2012 - Page 11 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
Yesterday I mentioned how the judge going through the evidence and witness testimony and how unnecessary that was and sort of joked that he wanted to do his own closing arguements which I felt was exactly what he was doing.....and now all these other questionable decisions he made throughout the trial makes me question this Judge's compentency.

Who is he? What other trials has he presided over? I WANT to know.
 
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