Legal Arguments - What went on behind Closed Doors?

[otto]

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/05/10/tori-stafford-michael-rafferty-evidence/


The law MIGHT change? WTF?

What do you mean with "WTF"? What are The Facts?

The law may or may not change, but according to the law when the search warrant was issued, it was not necessary to request a separate warrant for electronics found within the approved search warrant location. Somewhere along the way, after the warrant was issued to search the car, the law changed and the harddrive took on a life of it's own - needed it's own warrant. That's clearly an appeal argument.

The warrant parameters should, by default, be grandfathered in just like the "double time for time served" was grandfathered in.

 

[flipflop]

<Modsnip>

I noticed that he had his hands under the blanket for quite a long time. I wonder if he googled "how to look innocent after a crime" or something along this line. He very rarely made eye contact, stared at the wall, covered his hands under the blanket. He never said VS's name in either interview. He mentions several times "Im not talking" or "Im not saying anymore" He was also worried that if he asked for something to eat that LE would put that in their report, and LE would read somthing into him being hungry at this time.

I have always believed that he chose TLM as a scapegoat as her past fit the bill. In the interview he stated "TL is uncredible" "She is a liar" ...IMO MR knew this about TLM, to me that explains why he chose her to help him with this crime.

 

[SFB73]

MR is expecting his escort girlfriend to bail him out ... only to learn that she's in another interview room.

I think he was referring to the woman he was with when he was arrested? I don't want to say her name because I suspect she wishes she never came in contact or was ever associated with this guy. The investigator said all she was concerned with was being able to get tickets from her car because she was going to Vegas very soon or something like that and going home tomtake a lng hot shower to wash away the grime. So that would lead me to think this woman was the one he was with when arrested, as both cars were seized from the quality inn parking lot. I doubt at this point they had any clue about the escort girlfriend out of London, that connection possibly wasn't made until they went into banking records of MR and saw the deposits being made.

 

[~n/t~]

What do you mean with "WTF"? What are The Facts?

The law may or may not change, but according to the law when the search warrant was issued, it was not necessary to request a separate warrant for electronics found within the approved search warrant location. Somewhere along the way, after the warrant was issued to search the car, the law changed and the harddrive took on a life of it's own - needed it's own warrant. That's clearly an appeal argument.

The warrant parameters should, by default, be grandfathered in just like the "double time for time served" was grandfathered in.

Deciding whether or not testimony and evidence is admissable or not in a trial based on a law that MIGHT come into effect during the course of the trial is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Well, gee, let's not allow relevant evidence in a trial just in case they change the law or something.

Absolutely 100% ridiculous. IMO

 

[~n/t~]

The law governing computer and electronic searches was then very much in a state of flux.

There had been judicial hints that without a secondary warrant, such searches might not survive a Charter challenge, but the matter simply wasn&#8217;t settled yet.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/05/10/tori-stafford-michael-rafferty-evidence/

 

[Jezbel]

so awful to think of these details but i think and jmo but he likely choked her unconscious and then tossed her out of the car.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/ca...ut-michael-raffertys-character-151021275.html

The investigation uncovered 13 women who reported that Rafferty had a penchant for sexual choking &#8212; some of which they said was not consensual.

Investigators said they were told Rafferty had one woman who was reluctant to participate in his sexual violence sign a consent note, saying she agreed "to what Mike and I are doing tonight sexual choking and passing out and other things."

In Christie Blatchford's article, it says "at least" 13 women that would testify to this and that one of them was TLM...

When TLM was on the stand for the first day and talking about MR, saying she wanted to think he was a good guy and he said and did stuff that she brushed off because of that, that's when she mentioned how he said she was like lucifer, she then went on to say how one time he climbed on top of her and..... The crown stopped her right there saying that they did not need to get into that right now. I always wondered if the rest of that story would come up, but it didn't and know I know why, it would have gone towards his character. I knew he had done something to her, I thought maybe he raped her, now I think he choked her too. I wonder if the full story will come out now?

 

[Jezbel]

What do you mean with "WTF"? What are The Facts?

The law may or may not change, but according to the law when the search warrant was issued, it was not necessary to request a separate warrant for electronics found within the approved search warrant location. Somewhere along the way, after the warrant was issued to search the car, the law changed and the harddrive took on a life of it's own - needed it's own warrant. That's clearly an appeal argument.

The warrant parameters should, by default, be grandfathered in just like the "double time for time served" was grandfathered in.

WTF = what the *advertiser censored**

 

[Flossie JMO]

going to catch up, if anyone else had trouble viewing the videos at the London site, ctv has them and I was able to see them here:

Legal analyst supports judge decision to exclude videos

http://watch.ctv.ca/news/latest/rafferty-trial/#clip677067

13 minutes includes Rafferty seeing McClintic briefly

http://watch.ctv.ca/news/latest/rafferty-trial/#clip676971

Rafferty extended 18 minutes:

http://watch.ctv.ca/news/latest/rafferty-trial/#clip676966

 

[Flossie JMO]

What browser are you using? I was unable to see the LFP raw videos in Firefox and had to use IE Tab. Turns out Plus was the culprit, so I disabled it for the LFP site. Flashblock still blocks most of the ads.

thank you was using IE but think an old one? I was able to see the ones on CTV's site, thanks again

 

[Flossie JMO]

If something goes wrong and he gets away with this, I'm making it my mission to find that damned car seat myself.

I'm so glad to see everyone on the same page here. What happened to all the posters who were so sure MTR was innocent?

I'm here, I wasn't sure he was innocent, I felt there was reasonable doubt based on what we were aware of at the time. I feel sick now.

 

[puppyraiser]

<Modsnip>

I noticed that he had his hands under the blanket for quite a long time. I wonder if he googled "how to look innocent after a crime" or something along this line. He very rarely made eye contact, stared at the wall, covered his hands under the blanket. He never said VS's name in either interview. He mentions several times "Im not talking" or "Im not saying anymore" He was also worried that if he asked for something to eat that LE would put that in their report, and LE would read somthing into him being hungry at this time.

I have always believed that he chose TLM as a scapegoat as her past fit the bill. In the interview he stated "TL is uncredible" "She is a liar" ...IMO MR knew this about TLM, to me that explains why he chose her to help him with this crime.

Exactly what I was thinking after listening to the videos. MR slipped a few times when he said over and over again that the police were believing a 19 yr old liar who stabs people. For a long time I struggled to understand just why he would "date" her when her social status and age were so far off the other women he was meeting on POF. TLM didn't target Tori, MR TARGETED TLM.

 

[Flossie JMO]

I am not understanding either, can people just google this s**t? I thought we had LE on this stuff? I do not know, it confuses me.

LE is on this stuff, the sickest part is there are SO MANY that they can't get them all right away. LE works very hard to catch these sickos. Not enough hours in the day and not enough staff to ever get them all right away, or probably ever

 

[Flossie JMO]

I go back and forth between the death penalty thing and I don't see the DP as a deterrent or punishment. Leaving them in a tiny cell to rot away and think about what they did to their victims, for the rest of their pathetic lives IMHO is more punishment. Life should be life. General population would be best. Have them live in fear everyday, looking over their shoulder and wonder who might attack them at any given time is deserving punishment. Death by the DP is the easy way out, done and over and they need not think about how sick minded they are anymore because they are dead. Of course this is just all my honest opinion. Also some consider the amount of money wasted to house these freaks. Well it can be pretty costly for all the appeals and court costs, legal representation and such that incur during all the appeals time and time again over the course of the years it all plays out. MOO

ITA, good post IMO

 

[crazyladi]

I never believed she is the one that killed Tori (with the hammer), either. I can believe she may have been the one who kicked Tori. That is TLM's style of attack. She uses her hands, feet, legs, arms... a hammer is out of character for her.

100% agree. I never believed it was her. Now hearing what I have heard I am positive he did most of the killing.


Have been believed something was missing RE: the many, many, many, many women paraded into court. Especially all the single mothers. Men with an obvious preference for single mothers really raise alarms in my head. And this has just proven that my choice to remain single while I raise my child was one of the best choices I could have made to protect my daughter.

This is exactly what I did for 8 yrs because I kept meeting creepy men, thank God I waited to find the right guy



Anyway, back to TLM for a moment. Turns out she did perjure herself on the stand... she isn't the killer. That is, IMO, the only part of her testimony that was a lie.


I am disgusted.

I think she confessed because she might have felt safer saying she did it and maybe hoping to be put in solitary confinement so no one could kick the crap out of her? Why all of the sudden lie about that? I just never understood it at all and her story was so made up and made no sense. However I do believe that the girl she beat up in jail has something to do with her sudden confession. JMO

it seems that the gurgling sound may have been from choking TS...hence his choking preferences with other women :O(

I really think that is exactly what happened. I think that he was raping tori and was choking her and threw her out the door like trash. He is a vile sick MF.

so awful to think of these details but i think and jmo but he likely choked her unconscious and then tossed her out of the car.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/ca...ut-michael-raffertys-character-151021275.html

The investigation uncovered 13 women who reported that Rafferty had a penchant for sexual choking — some of which they said was not consensual.

Investigators said they were told Rafferty had one woman who was reluctant to participate in his sexual violence sign a consent note, saying she agreed "to what Mike and I are doing tonight sexual choking and passing out and other things."

In Christie Blatchford's article, it says "at least" 13 women that would testify to this and that one of them was TLM...

Totally agree. I cant believe that he made them sign a consent letter to be choked that is messed up. I really feel still that all of these women are victims and that once they find out about what we just found out many of them will be thanking their lucky stars that it wasnt them he killed. I really think still that there are more charges after this trial is over for MR. I have a feeling women upon women are going to come forward if they havent already (Hence why all of the character evidence was not allowed to be brought up) and press charges weather it be them or their children. I feel there is something more and that is why the crown did ask these women why they broke up etc JMO

One thing I know for sure ... if this is anything less than a 1st degree conviction, the crown has plenty of grounds for appeal. It seems to me that by excluding so much evidence, the judge has done everything possible to ensure that the defence has no grounds for appeal. Grounds for appeal start with having a search warrant for all the contents of the vehicle and then the judge going along with the defence argument that because in other situations there were warrants specifically for computers, there should have been a specific warrant for the computer in the car (basically a second warrant for vehicle contents). It's just my opinion, but I think evidence was suppressed to prevent the defence from appealing ... but I also think that could change during appeal. The videos that MR accessed were not about character, they were about his interest in raping children - premeditation ... all grounds for appeal.

I hope the jury gets it right the first time but, if not, I'm sure there will be another trial. No one wants this man in society.

I really hope too that they find him guilty if not I was wondering if they retried him can they use this other evidence now???

Yup the same judge who made some snide remarks about falling asleep during some of the Crown's crucial testimony so he gave the jury an extended break.

Did I mention how much I don't like this judge?

Ya I didnt like him either. I felt he was rude at times when he should have showed the family compassion. He made remarks that were just rude for the case that was going on and it was insensitive

What do you mean with "WTF"? What are The Facts?

The law may or may not change, but according to the law when the search warrant was issued, it was not necessary to request a separate warrant for electronics found within the approved search warrant location. Somewhere along the way, after the warrant was issued to search the car, the law changed and the harddrive took on a life of it's own - needed it's own warrant. That's clearly an appeal argument.

The warrant parameters should, by default, be grandfathered in just like the "double time for time served" was grandfathered in.

I swear on my life if he is found less than Murder 1 I would appeal this if that evidence is allowed. Either way I hope this pathetic piece of trash stays in prison the rest of his life.

<Modsnip>

I noticed that he had his hands under the blanket for quite a long time. I wonder if he googled "how to look innocent after a crime" or something along this line. He very rarely made eye contact, stared at the wall, covered his hands under the blanket. He never said VS's name in either interview. He mentions several times "Im not talking" or "Im not saying anymore" He was also worried that if he asked for something to eat that LE would put that in their report, and LE would read somthing into him being hungry at this time.

I have always believed that he chose TLM as a scapegoat as her past fit the bill. In the interview he stated "TL is uncredible" "She is a liar" ...IMO MR knew this about TLM, to me that explains why he chose her to help him with this crime.

I have to tell you at one point I thought he was touching himself no kidding.

I honestly have felt sick to my stomach with these two monsters but more now that this information has come out. I want to go there and punch him in his face. I am so sickened by this and the fact that I wanted to believe she wasnt sexually assaulted then hearing this made me so sick to my stomach and I can even begin to imagine what Tori went through during her last hours of life.

How do these people fly under the radar for so long?? I dont understand it makes no sense to me. What is happening in this world?

All I do is look at this kids walking alone on the streets and I am afraid that they will be taken. I am going to be a bubble wrapped mother and I hate that I have to be that way but I could never imagine this happening to my child because I really would have lost my mind and then some.

Shame on these two degenerates.....Thats all I can say. I just cant get over what came out. This is just sick.

 

[puppyraiser]

I have to tell you at one point I thought he was touching himself no kidding.
snipped for space

How do these people fly under the radar for so long?? I dont understand it makes no sense to me. What is happening in this world?

All I do is look at this kids walking alone on the streets and I am afraid that they will be taken. I am going to be a bubble wrapped mother and I hate that I have to be that way but I could never imagine this happening to my child because I really would have lost my mind and then some.

Shame on these two degenerates.....Thats all I can say. I just cant get over what came out. This is just sick.

I, too, thought at one time during the interview that he was touching himself.

Imagine all these women had pretty much the same story to tell about choking and concerning actions around children and NONE of it could be brought out in court. I wonder how many others there are who didn't come forward?

 

[Flowercb]

They weren't seeking to include searches for: ``transgender,'' ``she male,'' ``necrophilia videos,'' ``real rape,'' ``best program to download child *advertiser censored*,'' ``naked girl seazing (sic),'' ``seizures girl,'' ``seizures videos,'' ``epileptic naked,'' ``epileptic naked attack,'' ``real gang rape'' and ``peeing.''

The investigation uncovered 13 women who reported that Rafferty had a penchant for sexual choking - some of which they said was not consensual.

Investigators said they were told Rafferty had one woman who was reluctant to participate in his sexual violence sign a consent note, saying she agreed ``to what Mike and I are doing tonight sexual choking and passing out and other things.''

One of the most startling pieces of evidence from the 15 women who were dating Rafferty in the spring of 2009 wasn't even supposed to come out.

Charity Spitzig, who had been dating Rafferty for a year and was talking marriage, gave Rafferty $16,835 from December 2008 until May 2009, when he was arrested. The Crown had instructed her not to say where the money came from, but she nevertheless testified that she and Rafferty had decided she should work as an escort and give him the earnings.

It did not go unnoticed by Derstine, who rose as soon as the jury left to denounce the ``grievously prejudicial'' comment, but assured the court he would not ask for a mistrial.

He did ask Heeney to put a stop to the ``parade of women,'' saying it was wearing on him. The parade, Crown attorney Kevin Gowdey agreed, is ``wearing on all of us.'' Heeney sided with the Crown, who argued each woman had valuable evidence to add.

I think there's more to it in my first bolded part, makes me say hmmm his voice. *scratches head* Sexually confused too maybe? MOO

http://www.am980.ca/channels/news/local/Story.aspx?ID=1702061

I thought the same thing about the Sexually confused part when I heard his voice in the interogation video.

 

[snoofer]

I'm here, I wasn't sure he was innocent, I felt there was reasonable doubt based on what we were aware of at the time. I feel sick now.

I am guessing he burned then buried the car seat in the rural somewhere. MOO

 

[snoofer]

I thought the same thing about the Sexually confused part when I heard his voice in the interogation video.

i think he was just dropped on his head as a baby and is one sick puppy. MOO And genetics.

 

[Flossie JMO]

I am guessing he burned then buried the car seat in the rural somewhere. MOO

You might be right, he'll never tell imo

 

[Flossie JMO]

what did he mean about Tara is not complete and Rodney is not complete? is this a reference to their polys? in the youtube part 2 at about 13:15

and someone that was being detained right then but would probably be released. And they had to follow up with some of the otherpeople that have been implicated and some other people weretold about this, and that TLM told some people about this and they had to be dealt with?

odd thing to tell MR jmo